Bulls/Knicks = Guts. Cavs = Loyalty. Heat = Gutlessness

[Findog]

LeBron isn't Leonard Little, OJ Simpson or Mark Chmura, and he has the right to go to any team he wants to play for. So with those two caveats out of the way...

1) Leaving the Cavs is ultimately a defensible decision, but you don't go on tv and publicly humiliate a sports town with its history of heartbreak. There are more important things in the world than sports, Cleveland is hurting more from its status as a rustbelt city with a declining industrial base, but this spectacle was needlessly cruel. LeBron deserves the hit to his rep for this.

2) It comes out that he kept the Cavs dangling in the wind when all along he had no intention of going back. If he had said up front that he still wanted to have his free-agent extravaganza but had eliminated the Cavs from consideration, Cleveland could have moved on with other plans instead of waiting on the FA market to shake out.

3) LeBron accepted the media hype of the "Chosen One" and the "Savior" and took his first max extension with the Cavs in 2007 with the team building around him as its foundation. You take the money, you let the team's marketing dept hype you up as the #1 option, you've made a commitment to build that franchise up to a champion. Like Durant has done with the ex-Sonics. Like Dirk has done with the Mavs. Like Duncan successfully did with the Spurs. Bron cut and ran when the going got tough

4) Bron signed off on all personnel moves they did, so he has no right to complain about the roster the Cavs surrounded him with. If he had been willing to commit longer than 3 years back in 07, the Cavs could've been more patient and gotten younger players that could grow into their roles over time, like the Bulls did with Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen. Instead they felt that they had to win a chip NOW with a veteran roster built on the fly to prevent him from leaving. What player wanted to sign with Cleveland not knowing if they were going to be stuck there after 2010 without LeBron? (I'll bet dollars to donuts part of the reason Amare to Cleveland didn't get done in February was because they couldn't get assurances that Stoudemire would sign an extension).

5) Why is Wade not getting for welcoming Bron and Bosh into the fold? Because he's been there. He's willed a team to a championship by putting it on his back. He has nothing to prove. He doesn't need the help, but he'll certainly take it. Bron is tacitly admitting he doesn't trust his own abilities to be the #1 guy if he has to join up with Wade on the Heat. For a guy who grew up in the greater Cleveland area as a Cowboys, Yankees and Bulls fan, this is the ultimate frontrunner move.

6) I'm stealing this from elsewhere, but his choices boiled down to the these: New York and Chicago meant guts (following in Jordan's footsteps in Chicago, making basketball relevant again in NY). Cleveland meant loyalty. Miami means gutlessness. The Heat have a 5-6 year window and I'd be really surprised if they don't win at least 2-3 les, if not more, during that span. But what does that really prove? He passed up a chance at greatness by basically admitting that he needs another #1 option, a #2 option and a HOF coach (Riley will edge out Spoelstra sooner or later) to get across the finish line. We'll never know what LeBron can do in his prime without the aid of a super team, and that's a disappointment for NBA fans as a whole.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

[TDMVPDPOY]

how come u didnt mention kahn the wanker who did the heat a favor

umm how about the hawks who basically failed keepin JJ...with or without JJ hawks aint winnin against the trio in there conference

now the teams with cap, are they going to overspend on the scrubs FA

[Findog]

how come u didnt mention kahn the wanker who did the heat a favor

He also did his own damn team a favor by taking on the #2 pick from the 2008 draft for NOTHING. High Reward, No Risk with Beasley.

[monosylab1k]

LeBron isn't Leonard Little, OJ Simpson or Mark Chmura, and he has the right to go to any team he wants to play for. So with those two caveats out of the way...

1) Leaving the Cavs is ultimately a defensible decision, but you don't go on tv and publicly humiliate a sports town with its history of heartbreak. There are more important things in the world than sports, Cleveland is hurting more from its status as a rustbelt city with a declining industrial base, but this spectacle was needlessly cruel. LeBron deserves the hit to his rep for this.

2) It comes out that he kept the Cavs dangling in the wind when all along he had no intention of going back. If he had said up front that he still wanted to have his free-agent extravaganza but had eliminated the Cavs from consideration, Cleveland could have moved on with other plans instead of waiting on the FA market to shake out.

3) LeBron accepted the media hype of the "Chosen One" and the "Savior" and took his first max extension with the Cavs in 2007 with the team building around him as its foundation. You take the money, you let the team's marketing dept hype you up as the #1 option, you've made a commitment to build that franchise up to a champion. Like Durant has done with the ex-Sonics. Like Dirk has done with the Mavs. Like Duncan successfully did with the Spurs. Bron cut and ran when the going got tough

4) Bron signed off on all personnel moves they did, so he has no right to complain about the roster the Cavs surrounded him with. If he had been willing to commit longer than 3 years back in 07, the Cavs could've been more patient and gotten younger players that could grow into their roles over time, like the Bulls did with Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen. Instead they felt that they had to win a chip NOW with a veteran roster built on the fly to prevent him from leaving. What player wanted to sign with Cleveland not knowing if they were going to be stuck there after 2010 without LeBron? (I'll bet dollars to donuts part of the reason Amare to Cleveland didn't get done in February was because they couldn't get assurances that Stoudemire would sign an extension).

5) Why is Wade not getting for welcoming Bron and Bosh into the fold? Because he's been there. He's willed a team to a championship by putting it on his back. He has nothing to prove. He doesn't need the help, but he'll certainly take it. Bron is tacitly admitting he doesn't trust his own abilities to be the #1 guy if he has to join up with Wade on the Heat. For a guy who grew up in the greater Cleveland area as a Cowboys, Yankees and Bulls fan, this is the ultimate frontrunner move.

6) I'm stealing this from elsewhere, but his choices boiled down to the these: New York and Chicago meant guts (following in Jordan's footsteps in Chicago, making basketball relevant again in NY). Cleveland meant loyalty. Miami means gutlessness. The Heat have a 5-6 year window and I'd be really surprised if they don't win at least 2-3 les, if not more, during that span. But what does that really prove? He passed up a chance at greatness by basically admitting that he needs another #1 option, a #2 option and a HOF coach (Riley will edge out Spoelstra sooner or later) to get across the finish line. We'll never know what LeBron can do in his prime without the aid of a super team, and that's a disappointment for NBA fans as a whole.

more well written and far less self-serving and pretentious than that turd Cry Havoc tried to get us all to read.

[dallaskd]

good post findog. agreed.

[TheMACHINE]

well said Findog

[BadOdor]

But he did it for THE KIDS!!!!

[ffadicted]

But he did it for THE KIDS!!!!

ing Legend!

[Cry Havoc]

more well written and far less self-serving and pretentious than that turd Cry Havoc tried to get us all to read.

LeBron isn't Leonard Little, OJ Simpson or Mark Chmura, and he has the right to go to any team he wants to play for. So with those two caveats out of the way...

1) Leaving the Cavs is ultimately a defensible decision, but you don't go on tv and publicly humiliate a sports town with its history of heartbreak. There are more important things in the world than sports, Cleveland is hurting more from its status as a rustbelt city with a declining industrial base, but this spectacle was needlessly cruel. LeBron deserves the hit to his rep for this.

2) It comes out that he kept the Cavs dangling in the wind when all along he had no intention of going back. If he had said up front that he still wanted to have his free-agent extravaganza but had eliminated the Cavs from consideration, Cleveland could have moved on with other plans instead of waiting on the FA market to shake out.

3) LeBron accepted the media hype of the "Chosen One" and the "Savior" and took his first max extension with the Cavs in 2007 with the team building around him as its foundation. You take the money, you let the team's marketing dept hype you up as the #1 option, you've made a commitment to build that franchise up to a champion. Like Durant has done with the ex-Sonics. Like Dirk has done with the Mavs. Like Duncan successfully did with the Spurs. Bron cut and ran when the going got tough

4) Bron signed off on all personnel moves they did, so he has no right to complain about the roster the Cavs surrounded him with. If he had been willing to commit longer than 3 years back in 07, the Cavs could've been more patient and gotten younger players that could grow into their roles over time, like the Bulls did with Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen. Instead they felt that they had to win a chip NOW with a veteran roster built on the fly to prevent him from leaving. What player wanted to sign with Cleveland not knowing if they were going to be stuck there after 2010 without LeBron? (I'll bet dollars to donuts part of the reason Amare to Cleveland didn't get done in February was because they couldn't get assurances that Stoudemire would sign an extension).

5) Why is Wade not getting for welcoming Bron and Bosh into the fold? Because he's been there. He's willed a team to a championship by putting it on his back. He has nothing to prove. He doesn't need the help, but he'll certainly take it. Bron is tacitly admitting he doesn't trust his own abilities to be the #1 guy if he has to join up with Wade on the Heat. For a guy who grew up in the greater Cleveland area as a Cowboys, Yankees and Bulls fan, this is the ultimate frontrunner move.

6) I'm stealing this from elsewhere, but his choices boiled down to the these: New York and Chicago meant guts (following in Jordan's footsteps in Chicago, making basketball relevant again in NY). Cleveland meant loyalty. Miami means gutlessness. The Heat have a 5-6 year window and I'd be really surprised if they don't win at least 2-3 les, if not more, during that span. But what does that really prove? He passed up a chance at greatness by basically admitting that he needs another #1 option, a #2 option and a HOF coach (Riley will edge out Spoelstra sooner or later) to get across the finish line. We'll never know what LeBron can do in his prime without the aid of a super team, and that's a disappointment for NBA fans as a whole.

So how do you guys feel about Dirk's career, never winning a ring? Is that awesome for him? Does it feel great to know he stuck with a team that never put a scorer above the level of Josh Howard alongside him?

at angry Mavs fans. "We don't get a superteam so we're pissy!"

If Bron was heading your way you'd be talking about how great and intelligent he is for wanting to team up with Dirk.

[TheMACHINE]

So how do you guys feel about Dirk's career, never winning a ring? Is that awesome for him? Does it feel great to know he stuck with a team that never put a scorer above the level of Josh Howard alongside him?

at angry Mavs fans. "We don't get a superteam so we're pissy!"

If Bron was heading your way you'd be talking about how great and intelligent he is for wanting to team up with Dirk.

props to Dirk..sure is trying his hardest.

[picc84]

But he did it for THE KIDS!!!!

you know Bron love the kids, aint that right Harlem?

[monosylab1k]

So how do you guys feel about Dirk's career, never winning a ring? Is that awesome for him? Does it feel great to know he stuck with a team that never put a scorer above the level of Josh Howard alongside him?

at angry Mavs fans. "We don't get a superteam so we're pissy!"

If Bron was heading your way you'd be talking about how great and intelligent he is for wanting to team up with Dirk.

someone's butthurt I didn't like his long winded wank session.

[Veterinarian]

The way Lebron did this is almost worth it for all the butthurtedness it caused.

[Findog]

So how do you guys feel about Dirk's career, never winning a ring? Is that awesome for him? Does it feel great to know he stuck with a team that never put a scorer above the level of Josh Howard alongside him?

Garnett stuck with the Wolves until the tail end of his prime when it was obvious they couldn't realistically get him the supporting cast he needed. Dirk signed his extension at 31 years old before the creation of the Super Team down in Miami. There was...hope.

Also, say what you will about Cuban's antics and shtick, some of his questionable roster moves, but what can never be disputed or doubted is the fact that he has moved heaven and earth to keep a 50+win team on the floor every year and provide a quality product for his fans. The stated goal of the organization is to win a championship, and before you start in, yes, going out in the first or second round every year is a bitter disappointment. But the point is that the Mavs try every SINGLE year. Same with the Spurs. I hate the Spurs, want them to fail, but have nothing but major RESPECT for that organization because they try every single year and don't jip their fans by putting a ty product out on the court.

Miami and New York essentially tanked the last three years, and Miami was amply rewarded for treating their fans to absolute dog the past three years. Lesson learned is that creating cap space for the horizon is more important than trying on a year to year basis.

If Bron was heading your way you'd be talking about how great and intelligent he is for wanting to team up with Dirk

As a Mavs fan, I'm not going to turn down Bron on my team. Just like you can't begrudge Heat fans, if they existed before yesterday, for the same. But as an NBA fan, I wanted him to stay with the Cavs. I don't think he was at the same point in his career like KG was in 2007 where he could legitimately throw up his hands and say "I was loyal and I tried. It's just not going to happen here."

[MiamiHeat]

all the butthurt will be silenced as the Beach Boyz are winning les

Dirk will retire ringless, but that's how it should be according to mav fans.

[MiamiHeat]

Miami and New York essentially tanked the last three years, and Miami was amply rewarded for treating their fans to absolute dog the past three years. Lesson learned is that creating cap space for the horizon is more important than trying on a year to year basis.

you are copy pasting from previous posters

i read that somewhere already


i will say what i said before

Miami was a #5 seed last year.

[Findog]

you are copy pasting from previous posters

No I'm not. Find the post where I did or admit you're making up. I've made the same point in previous threads.

Miami was a 5 seed in a top-heavy East last year. They'd have been a lottery team in the West. There was no pretense of doing anything remotely related to trying the past three years. It was all about creating cap space for this summer. That was the master plan, and it worked. Just don't sell us on the idea that the Heat were trying to do anything related to providing a quality product for their fans in the interim with the garbage they surrounded Wade with.

[Basketballgirl25]

does anyone know any status on the contract with the Heat? Will he have a opt-out after 3 years? I heard that mentioned somewhere, but wasn't sure so was just wondering if it was true. I hope not and he will just stick with the heat and lose

[JamStone]

Good read, really good points.

I've said this in a few other posts, but I think there's a flip side to the criticism. People often criticize athletes for only being in it for the money, chasing the money, and chasing supers om. LeBron chose to go to another superstar's team, which carried plenty of risks to his own individual legend. People can say he took an easy way out to win a championship or championships, but he's also taking a hit to his own legend. I think that's putting his ego to the side and being more concerned with winning and championships. While I understand the criticisms you've outlined, I also think there is more than one way of looking at it.

Also, as to the criticisms of signing off on Cavaliers' personnel decisions and accepting the media hype of being the "Chosen One," it can't be overstated that those are two way street relationships. LeBron wanted to be consulted with Cavs decisions, but the Cavaliers had no obligation to do that with LeBron. After reading Dan Gilbert's tirade letter, it became apparently clear that Gilbert and the Cavs helped not only enable this but fostered LeBron's ego and self en lement. Gilbert allowed LeBron's "team" and family to get the extra perks, ride on the team plane, even probably employed some of them with the Cavs. ESPN and Nike and NBA fans also fostered and enabled LeBron to be "the King." If he wasn't marketable, if Nike and ESPN didn't get on their knees to service him for the last 7 years, then there would be no need for LeBron to "accept" the hype. If it was any other athlete, any other person, they take that hype too. Was he supposed to turn down the hype? Shy away from it?


LeBron pussied out if you look at it one way. He also made a decision that was heavily based on winning, and not just winning a championship, but winning multiple championships for several years. He also made a decision that he felt would make him most happy. I'm personally not going to hate him on it. I understand the criticisms he's taking, but after considering everything, I think it's cool he was willing to take the hit on his legacy to play with two close friends that could possibly mean a championship dynasty.

[Findog]

Good read, really good points.

I've said this in a few other posts, but I think there's a flip side to the criticism. People often criticize athletes for only being in it for the money, chasing the money, and chasing supers om. LeBron chose to go to another superstar's team, which carried plenty of risks to his own individual legend. People can say he took an easy way out to win a championship or championships, but he's also taking a hit to his own legend. I think that's putting his ego to the side and being more concerned with winning and championships. While I understand the criticisms you've outlined, I also think there is more than one way of looking at it.

Also, as to the criticisms of signing off on Cavaliers' personnel decisions and accepting the media hype of being the "Chosen One," it can't be overstated that those are two way street relationships. LeBron wanted to be consulted with Cavs decisions, but the Cavaliers had no obligation to do that with LeBron. After reading Dan Gilbert's tirade letter, it became apparently clear that Gilbert and the Cavs helped not only enable this but fostered LeBron's ego and self en lement. Gilbert allowed LeBron's "team" and family to get the extra perks, ride on the team plane, even probably employed some of them with the Cavs. ESPN and Nike and NBA fans also fostered and enabled LeBron to be "the King." If he wasn't marketable, if Nike and ESPN didn't get on their knees to service him for the last 7 years, then there would be no need for LeBron to "accept" the hype. If it was any other athlete, any other person, they take that hype too. Was he supposed to turn down the hype? Shy away from it?


LeBron pussied out if you look at it one way. He also made a decision that was heavily based on winning, and not just winning a championship, but winning multiple championships for several years. He also made a decision that he felt would make him most happy. I'm personally not going to hate him on it. I understand the criticisms he's taking, but after considering everything, I think it's cool he was willing to take the hit on his legacy to play with two close friends that could possibly mean a championship dynasty.

I am disappointed that LeBron has chosen the Shaquille O'Neal route (basketball mercenary/independent contractor) over the Jordan/Kobe/Duncan/Hakeem route. His right and decision of course, but I think Shaq is a major career underachiever (3 chips as a #1 guy, 1 as a #2 guy is way underachieving for his talent), and part of that is his mercenary mentality, his willingness to cut and run when things don't go his way, etc. I'm not saying we're going to look back at LeBron in the same way because his career hasn't entirely played out yet, but I thought LeBron was better than that.

[lefty]

LOL butthurt Mavs fan

[Findog]

LOL butthurt Mavs fan

You come up with new and inventive ways to suck.

[stretch]

this thread = the heat are going to dominate everyone now and I'm too asshurt over the fact that 3 dominant players in their prime would take less money to join forces and make a great team, so instead I'll just bash Lebron over pointless bull instead of facing the facts and watching how the season pans out

[Fpoonsie]

Good read, and agree w/ all the points. I can't blame him for taking this route, but I'm certainly disappointed.

For a guy who grew up in the greater Cleveland area as a Cowboys, Yankees and Bulls fan, this is the ultimate frontrunner move.

This part especially stands out. For a city that tried its damndest to promote "loyalty" as a motivating factor for 'Bron to stick around, you'd think they'd eventually realize SOMEthing's amiss by the many different hats (both figuratively and literally) he wore.