i think 95% of basketball fans suddenly grew vaginas last night

[Cry Havoc]

lol revising history and discounting what Duncan did to suit your argument.

Can I imagine Varejao trying to rebound against Malik Rose? No, a 7 footer grabbing a rebound over someone 5 inches shorter than he is is something I'm incapable of seeing.

In 2003, Parker was a 2nd year player who Greg Popovich loved so much he was ready to sign Jason Kidd as the new PG once the season was over. Ginobili was making his NBA debut and he averaged 7 PPG. Antwan Jamison is a way better player than either 2003 Parker or Manu. Mo Williams isn't any worse than 2003 Parker.

What? I already said Duncan took a team with no other bonafide superstar to the championship, something that's almost never been done in NBA history. How is that revising history?

Point being, Duncan's role players are still far and away better than ANYONE LeBron has had on his team. Mo Williams? 34 year old Antawn Jamison for half a season? Larry ing Hughes is one of the 5 best players that LeBron has played with on the Cavs.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

talk about revising history, when the guy was aquired in a midseason trade and didnt fit in whatsoever

absolutely not.

Then what are you saying? Are you trying to argue that any team outside the Heat or Lakers has a chance next year because the '07 Giants beat the Patriots? What mono and I were saying is that in the NFL playoffs pretty much any team has a shot (or hope as mono put it) to make a run and go the distance. When the NBA playoffs start next year, 14 out of 16 teams are gonna enter knowing they have next to no shot at going the distance.

[Veterinarian]

Its like a typhoon of butthurt flew through this place.

[monosylab1k]

Are you trying to argue that any team outside the Heat or Lakers has a chance next year because the '07 Giants beat the Patriots?

exactly, the whole reason the NFL got brought up is because LeBron Knobslobbers act like Miami/LA aren't the only two teams with any shot because "hey, the Patriots got beat"

Now they've gone and argued against themselves over that

[Veterinarian]

[Cry Havoc]

I never said he was a good fit. I said he was a better player than 2003 Parker or Manu.

And he came in at midseason. A player is only as good as the way he can produce for his team.

Parker was great for the Spurs in 03. Second on the team in scoring but perfectly happy to let Duncan dominate.

What, exactly, was Jamison's role on the Cavs? He's only a good player on the team if he makes that team actually better than they were without him. The Cavs made a trade "just to get a guy" and it didn't work.

But yeah, LeBron should have taken the Cavs to the championship with a 34 year old aging hybrid post-perimeter player as his 2nd option.

[monosylab1k]

will someone please respond to one of Veterinarian's posts so that he'll feel acknowledged and leave? Everybody ignoring him is not cool, and it means he'll keep posting, and I'll keep having to skip over his replies to get to a post I actually want to read.

Oh wait, I guess I just gave him what he wanted.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

What? I already said Duncan took a team with no other bonafide superstar to the championship, something that's almost never been done in NBA history. How is that revising history?

Because you're embellishing how good Parker and Manu were in 2003.

Point being, Duncan's role players are still far and away better than ANYONE LeBron has had on his team. Mo Williams? 34 year old Antawn Jamison for half a season? Larry ing Hughes is one of the 5 best players that LeBron has played with on the Cavs.

Lebron's 2010 supporting cast was not much worse than Duncan's 2003 supporting cast. It'd be almost impossible to have a player by player comparison, but as a whole it's almost equal.


IMO, the greatest feat a player can accomplish is winning MVP and finals MVP the same year. No one ever does it, but it's basically the best way to show you are able to carry a team on your back wire to wire. Lebron has all the tools to be able to accomplish that, but he went a route that makes it nearly impossible for him to ever do it, and I am disappointed. I also more pissed in general at how the NBA is designed so there can be 2-3 stacked ass teams every year while the other 27-28 teams have no chance.

[stretch]

I never said he was a good fit. I said he was a better player than 2003 Parker or Manu.

a decent talent who is a good fit >>> a good talent who is a ty fit

thats why Lebron was able to get to the finals with guys like Gooden, Boobie, and Z... they fit well together (mainly in playoff style basketball), just not talented enough.

in the previous 2 years, he had more talent, but talents who didnt fit well (mainly in playoff style basketball).

[Veterinarian]

I like how for the next like five minutes everyone's going to give a about Cleveland or at least pretend they give a . When they never gave two s about them before.

[Veterinarian]

lol pretending to care about Cleveland.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

But yeah, LeBron should have taken the Cavs to the championship with a 34 year old aging hybrid post-perimeter player as his 2nd option.

Tim Duncan did it with a 20 year old 2nd year combo guard who couldn't shoot as his 2nd option.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

a decent talent who is a good fit >>> a good talent who is a ty fit

thats why Lebron was able to get to the finals with guys like Gooden, Boobie, and Z... they fit well together (mainly in playoff style basketball), just not talented enough.

in the previous 2 years, he had more talent, but talents who didnt fit well (mainly in playoff style basketball).

Lebron left no time to make it fit well. Kevin Durant has made a commitment to OKC to make them a contender and let them groom young talent around him. Lebron forced Cleveland to go into short term win now mode making one panicky trade after another hoping to get Lebron the best team around him ASAP. I'm not gonna say it's solely Lebron's fault, but Lebron gets a fair share of the blame for the incomplete supporting cast around him.

[Cry Havoc]

Because you're embellishing how good Parker and Manu were in 2003.

Maybe Manu. Not Parker. He was second in scoring on the team, averaged around a steal per game, and knocked down over a trey per game that year. Still better than anyone LeBron has had around him.

Lebron's 2010 supporting cast was not much worse than Duncan's 2003 supporting cast. It'd be almost impossible to have a player by player comparison, but as a whole it's almost equal.

Oh, we can go ahead and do that. But it doesn't take much. Who were LeBron's 3rd and 4th leading scorers last year?

JJ Hickson and Anderson Varejao.







THAT team would win a le?

Meanwhile, Duncan at least had Parker (better than Mo Williams, since Parker can do more than just hit an outside shot), SJax, and Malik Rose. With David Robinson still able to make a jumper here and there and provide a modest post presence.

Was the Spurs team in 2003 great? No. Just good enough to win the Championship. They were still better than the 2010 Cavs, even if you remove LeBron and Duncan from the equation.

[Cry Havoc]

Tim Duncan did it with a 20 year old 2nd year combo guard who couldn't shoot as his 2nd option.

Parker's numbers: 47% on the season from the field, 34% from three, and averaging over a three per game. Not to mention over 5 dimes per game.

Yeah, man, you're right. Point Guards who shoot 47% from the field just suck.

[stretch]

Lebron left no time to make it fit well. Kevin Durant has made a commitment to OKC to make them a contender and let them groom young talent around him. Lebron forced Cleveland to go into short term win now mode making one panicky trade after another hoping to get Lebron the best team around him ASAP. I'm not gonna say it's solely Lebron's fault, but Lebron gets a fair share of the blame for the incomplete supporting cast around him.

Isn't Jamison like 34? Yeah, Lebron has all kinds of time to make that work, and win 6 rings with Jamison as his #2 so that he can possibly reach GOAT status as you all think he could have...

[Roddy Beaubois]

TD had plenty of help and a great supporting cast. But it was obvious Tim was the man on that team.

[Roddy Beaubois]

Cleveland couldnt land any FA last summer because everyone feared that they would be stuck on a Lebron-less Cav team after one year.

[Roddy Beaubois]

TD also didn't have anyone that could lead a team deep into the playoffs by themselves. (like Dwade obviously can)

[Cry Havoc]

Cleveland couldnt land any FA last summer because everyone feared that they would be stuck on a Lebron-less Cav team after one year.

7 years. That's around half of a player's career, at least the part that matters. (21-35). LeBron did come into the league early, so he's lucky to still have his best years ahead of him, but if the Cavs couldn't attract a player in 7 years, they blew it. In 7 years, Mo Williams was the best they could bring to the table.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Maybe Manu. Not Parker. He was second in scoring on the team, averaged around a steal per game, and knocked down over a trey per game that year. Still better than anyone LeBron has had around him.

2003 Parker and 2010 Mo Williams put up nearly identical stats. They both averaged a steal a game, they both were 2nd on their team in scoring, and they both averaged a little over 15 points and 5 assists with about the same efficiency. Neither one is noticeably better than the other.

Oh, we can go ahead and do that. But it doesn't take much. Who were LeBron's 3rd and 4th leading scorers last year?

Shaq and Atwan Jamison.

Meanwhile, Duncan at least had Parker (better than Mo Williams, since Parker can do more than just hit an outside shots, SJax, and Malik Rose.

If you're gonna criticize Mo Williams, what exactly could Stephen Jackson do on offense in 2003 other than hit outside shots? Back then he had little to no ball handling ability.

With David Robinson still able to make a jumper here and there and provide a modest post presence.

Shaq provided nothing less than what Robinson provided.

[IronMexican]

LMAO

YOU were the one saying even before pre-season that the Pats would go 18-0 and win the Superbowl and be the greatest team ever. Obviously you didn't believe there was a "compe ive balance" at that time.

They did go 18-0.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Parker's numbers: 47% on the season from the field, 34% from three, and averaging over a three per game. Not to mention over 5 dimes per game.

Yeah, man, you're right. Point Guards who shoot 47% from the field just suck.

Mo Williams numbers:

44.2% from the field (while taking a lot more 3's, so that's 2% less than Parker's 46.4% shooting), 43% 3 point shooting, 2.3 3's per game, and over 5 dimes per game.

Yup, 2003 Parker is SOOOOOO much better than 2010 Mo Williams.

[stretch]

They did go 18-0.

rofl 19-0

[IronMexican]

They did go 18-0.

8 18-1*