National Debt

[CosmicCowboy]

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036

The conservatives and Repugs are lying, AS ALWAYS, by sticking Obama with the false problem of the national deficit when the Repug/conservative policies going back 30+ years are the real cause.

He wanted to be President.

Like it or not, after 2 years it's his problem.

[boutons_deux]

"2 years it's his problem"

It's his responsiblity, shared with Congress, to address the LONG-TERM deficit, but SHORT-TERM, the overwhelming, deficit-causing, local/state-govt-imparing problem is the deficit from the Banksters' Great Depression. There, the Repugs' false message of "prevent recovery, kill safety net, the deficit is the priority" is ing up Obama's attempt to keep the depression from deepening and from being shortened.

The Repug want the worst possible economy they can create and extend until the mid-terms.

btw, the Deficit Commission is a ing joke.

[Wild Cobra]

Quick question: why doesnt Bush and the republican party get credit for the total cost of the Iraq war?

And is this even factored into our budget, Back then or now?

The whole cost probably isn't factored in because we already have costs involved for a standing military force. Soldiers are using more armaments and manpower than just in training exercises. It's these added costs that we see, not the total cost that we would spend on the military anyway.

[Wild Cobra]

how about 732,000,000,000 worth so far...damn, seems like we could have a hydrogen economy up and running for that. Oh but wait, some folks in big oil and big defense wouldnt have been able to cash in...then again no one would have had to die over fuel cells.

You're joking, right?

Any idea how expensive a hydrogen economy would be?

That might be enough to subsidize hydrogen for two years.

[Parker2112]

The whole cost probably isn't factored in because we already have costs involved for a standing military force. Soldiers are using more armaments and manpower than just in training exercises. It's these added costs that we see, not the total cost that we would spend on the military anyway.

Im speaking of repubs/conservatives who call obama an overspender. Bush spent big on Iraq, something Obama is still tied too..

[Parker2112]

You're joking, right?

Any idea how expensive a hydrogen economy would be?

That might be enough to subsidize hydrogen for two years.

What are you a commie? who said anything about subsidizing an entire energy sector?

We should be able to rely on the free market after we invest the first trillion, right?

[CosmicCowboy]

What are you a commie? who said anything about subsidizing an entire energy sector?

We should be able to rely on the free market after we invest the first trillion, right?

Sometimes money can't trump physics. We could invest 10 trillion in research and still wouldn't have an economical anti-gravity machine.

That H2O bond is an energy pig to break.

[Parker2112]

That H2O bond is an energy pig to break.

So is big oil's grip on America.

[spursncowboys]

What are you a commie? who said anything about subsidizing an entire energy sector?

We should be able to rely on the free market after we invest the first trillion, right?

We(thru the govt.) decide what the private sector does and then we leave them alone?

[George Gervin's Afro]

We(thru the govt.) decide what the private sector does and then we leave them alone?

the govt can start the transition..absolutely

[Cant_Be_Faded]

The entire debt projections are made with an assumption that GDP will continue to grow at a certain level. If we do not meet those growth exceptions and/or interest rates on debt begin to rise, this country is going to in a handbasket.

Massive massive hyperinflation is the only way for the government to dig the country out of the hole its created for us.

[Parker2112]

We(thru the govt.) decide what the private sector does and then we leave them alone?

Absolutely. Its called "incentivizing"

When we want more people buying homes, we give tax incentives. when we want people putting solar panels, we give rebates. If we want R&D in the private sector we give grants and low interest loans to brave, ingenous american souls who want to propel this country into the next generation of power production.

I cant stand the bad-ass flag waving muther f&*#%s who sell our business community short by saying that the govt would have to keep a new energy economy afloat,

We can make this happen. Read your history books conservatives. your forefathers could run rings around your collective asses. do something to benefit your kids.

[spursncowboys]

Absolutely. Its called "incentivizing"

When we want more people buying homes, we give tax incentives. when we want people putting solar panels, we give rebates. If we want R&D in the private sector we give grants and low interest loans to brave, ingenous american souls who want to propel this country into the next generation of power production.

I cant stand the bad-ass flag waving muther f&*#%s who sell our business community short by saying that the govt would have to keep a new energy economy afloat,

We can make this happen. Read your history books conservatives. your forefathers could run rings around your collective asses. do something to benefit your kids.

tax incentives are great ideas, except it encourages the use of taxes to allow the govt. to manipulate the private sector.

[spursncowboys]

where would the trillion go?

[Parker2112]

where would the trillion go?

grants and low interest loans to brave, ingenous american souls who want to propel this country into the next generation. doesnt have to be a full trillion.

[InRareForm]

country of spend spend spend!

when will we save?

when we default

[Nbadan]

Hey CC. who is the biggest U.S. creditor again?



(hint) not china...

[Wild Cobra]

Im speaking of repubs/conservatives who call obama an overspender. Bush spent big on Iraq, something Obama is still tied too..

So what? Did a democrat congress authorize the spending or not? Were democrats vocal in saying we needed to go there or not?

You cannot blame everything on just the president. Spending starts in congress.
wartime spending is acceptable by the cons ution. How do you cons utionally justify bailouts, especially as big as they are?

[Wild Cobra]

What are you a commie? who said anything about subsidizing an entire energy sector?

We should be able to rely on the free market after we invest the first trillion, right?

Oh./..

I see, you don't understand the cost implications of hydrogen.

Did you know it takes 44 kilo-watt-hours of electricity to get enough hydrogen for the equivalent of one gallon of gasoline?

How much do you pay for a kilo-watt-hour of electricity?

Where will this power come from? Adding more coal power plants to produce the electricity maybe?

Don't go off and say there are other ways to make hydrogen. Yes there are, but they involve leftover chemicals, or are in small quan ies as a byproduct of other processes.

Right now, if we already had a hydrogen infrastructure in place, it would probably cost twice as much as gasoline.

[Wild Cobra]

So is big oil's grip on America.

You definitely need chemistry lessons. You are dealing in magical concepts that don't exist.

[spursncowboys]

grants and low interest loans to brave, ingenous american souls who want to propel this country into the next generation. doesnt have to be a full trillion.

So we will have to create another government bureaucracy to decide who will distribute this money out. then you have politicians politiking: No corporations, no rich people. Then insert the lobbyists: 5000 pages where no one can understand. Corporations put things in for them. Unions put in that only union members can do it, etc.

Once the company or person gets it, thru govt funding, how much of that invention is his/her intellectual property? Would you make it where that person cannot patend it?
How long would we be funding? Would we start doing things like farm subsidies where we would pay people not to create other harmful energy?

Before the TBTF bailout, there were many electric car companies who got bought out and shut down because they didn't get a bailout. They were being created because of the price hike in the oil. A supply and demand reaction in a free market.

Ford's gross profit last year was 18 bil. Their selling exp was 13. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=F+In...atement&annual

[Parker2112]

So what? Did a democrat congress authorize the spending or not? Were democrats vocal in saying we needed to go there or not?

You cannot blame everything on just the president. Spending starts in congress.
wartime spending is acceptable by the cons ution. How do you cons utionally justify bailouts, especially as big as they are?

Was the whole ing country not misled by the corrupt intelligence community...one that Cheney and Wolfowitz had huge ties to?

If Congress did rely on some bogus misinformation by the CIA and Bush admin, then they arent accountable.

Besides, CONSERVATIVES ARENT CRYING OUT THAT DEM CONGRESS IS COMMUNIST/SOCIALIST. SO IF OBAMA IS TO BLAME NOW, BUSH WAS TO BLAME THEN. wear that , hypocrite.

[CosmicCowboy]

Hey CC. who is the biggest U.S. creditor again?



(hint) not china...

The Social Security "trust fund" of course. It's all a scam. Current benefits have to be paid out of current revenues and new borrowing.

[Parker2112]

So we will have to create another government bureaucracy to decide who will distribute this money out. then you have politicians politiking: No corporations, no rich people. Then insert the lobbyists: 5000 pages where no one can understand. Corporations put things in for them. Unions put in that only union members can do it, etc.

Once the company or person gets it, thru govt funding, how much of that invention is his/her intellectual property? Would you make it where that person cannot patend it?
How long would we be funding? Would we start doing things like farm subsidies where we would pay people not to create other harmful energy?

Before the TBTF bailout, there were many electric car companies who got bought out and shut down because they didn't get a bailout. They were being created because of the price hike in the oil. A supply and demand reaction in a free market.

Ford's gross profit last year was 18 bil. Their selling exp was 13. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=F+In...atement&annual

Gov is never the option. Agreed. But better to deal with agencies and beurocracy than to send our young men off to die so old men can get richer.

Keep your eye on the ball.

[spursncowboys]

So what? Did a democrat congress authorize the spending or not? Were democrats vocal in saying we needed to go there or not?

You cannot blame everything on just the president. Spending starts in congress.
wartime spending is acceptable by the cons ution. How do you cons utionally justify bailouts, especially as big as they are?

And then complain about the big bad corporations. Unions and Cartels are the worst things to happen to a free market.