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Unfortunately, there will always be a segment of the population that is beyond saving.
you had people overseeing your learning process. Teachers giving you instruction and assignments, parental discipline to make you sit down and do it...Wino is talking about completely unsupervised. That takes a very special kid.
Unfortunately, there will always be a segment of the population that is beyond saving.
I dont think gearing them to avg kids is so bad...so long as someone in the loop pushes the gifted kids to reach further.
algebra prepares kids to learn abstract concepts. it is not a necessary evil. it is part of learning how to learn.
When did I say that? You seem to assume that every online degree somehow places a red eye on the person who received it. If the degree doesn't come marked as online, is from at a great school, and the person does their job just like anyone else then its simply a degree and not an online degree.
You do get the interactions. Are you telling me that a prof who receives excellent work from a student in an online class is going to refuse him a reference, deny him mentoring, or deny him any other facility? This is ludicrous. Also, simply because a program is online does not mean one is limited to interaction through the computer. I've gotten together with both professors from online courses and students from online courses in settings outside of the online classroom.
The online material is the same as the material you get in class. BUT, you will not get the interaction. INTERACTION WITH FACULTY IS KEY. INTERACTION WITH FELLOW STUDENTS IS KEY. At a minimum you network, and gain references from profs.
Your assumptions are so illogical and horrible that I can only assume that you've never had any type of experience with an online classroom.
Do you assume new schools are cheap? Are you telling me it is more expensive to expand an online network once its set up than it is to build new schools? I'd have to say that is completely false.and if your talking about setting up a virtual classroom, where all kids can interact, you are talking about serious $$$ on IT.
The massive network is the internet. Its already in place. I'm not sure why you're acting as if they'd have to go out and build some huge new infrastructure when the one in place right now works just fine.And what you fail to consider is that kids cant do this at home. kids need direction, oversight. you are still talking about all the same school facilities PLUS the massive state of the art network. $$$$.
How would she know when the course numbers are exactly the same? There's no differentiation and the Universities aren't going to do that because they want to build up online courses not make them some lesser accepted form of their classesAnd dont get me wrong, my wife is a scientist, and she would consider applicants with an online degree in hiring for lab analysts. But, though you might get a job working for her, it would be hard to get her job (laboratory manager) with an online degree. And dont think your transcript wont show an employer who is considering you for a management level position whether you attended in person or not.
You have given me no evidence to show that online classes at major universities are any worse than any of their other classes. You just assume as much.last thing...nothing wrong with an online degree...they will advance some folks, and they definitley provide a person with more options.
But this is only an option for busy adults trying to raise their potential income levels.
BUT: The growth in online degrees does not equate to quality, it stems from profit: people are paying for it, so there is a market, and schools are offering it. that doesnt mean its the best product on the market.
Online classes =/= Correspondence courses where you learn on your own. Maybe this is why you're having trouble connecting the dots here about how online courses have lots of interaction. I'm not sure how old you are but I'm pretty certain after your series of posts that when you (assuming you have a degree) were getting your degree online courses were not available or the norm and perhaps you are comparing them to correspondence courses.
If that's the case then I understand your beefs and your concerns but the two are not very similar other than they are both forms of distance education.l
The direct incentive/reason presented to me was that an education was the first step in ensuring that I had as many opportunities and options available to me to be able to make my life what I wanted, rather than being forced to settle for whatever life I could get. The implication, of course, is that these opportunities bring with them the financial freedom to meander through life making choices, so it would be disingenuous to suggest that money wasn't at all an incentive, but it's hardly the same as "get an A and I'll give you $20."
Is the paradigm shifting, in your view?
Who requires this? Anybody who cares enough can educate him/herself in spite of the "labels", whatever you mean by that.
No one is beyond saving, unless he/she is already dead.
Only if you're willing to accept that as truth. I'm not.
How would online learning be completely unsupervised? Every element you mentioned above would still be involved.
It goes to desire, motivation and human nature and that can't be taught.
Eh, I hate to agree with CC but he's right. If success is only measured by saving everyone then we're never going to be successful.
No one exists in a vacuum.
Huge difference in ONLINE CLASSES and ONLINE DEGREES. I've taken online courses, I know the routine. But I also taken doctoral level classes. And I can tell you, in the top levels of academia, there is no set curriculum. Why is that? Because the interaction is where the learning happens. Not occasional interaction, but constant interaction over the entire class period and beyond.
And there isnt anything wrong with online degrees. They are a stepping stone to success. Success is different things to different people. Its not a red eye.
I'm telling you from the point of view of someone who has two degrees, and has a 20 year work history. My wife and I are both professionals. If you dont buy what I'm saying, then dont listen.
As for the network, all the lesson plans, hosting, hardware dont come included with the internet. And you will need tons for an interactive network. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I don't know that success is/should be measured by whether or not we save everyone, but I'd think giving up on people is a pretty good way to measure failure.
Suburbs' $100,000 teachers
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...-salaries.html
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Which is nothing compared to the $800K/year for city manager of Bell CA (pop 30K), and $100K/year for board members (avg elsewhere: $400/month)
You are always gonna have your gang bangers and your wanna be gangsters. It's always been that way and theres nothing we can do that will change it.
Doctoral research =/= undergrad studies =/= k-12 studies. You're moving goalposts here. What is acceptable for doctoral research really has no meaning on what would be acceptable for children or undergraduate degree programs
In any event, almost every major university provides online degree programs for many of their studies now and those degrees are every bit the degree you would get by attending courses on their campus.
Yet you laugh at the people who have them? Makes sense I guess.And there isnt anything wrong with online degrees. They are a stepping stone to success. Success is different things to different people. Its not a red eye.
You're certainly en led to your point of view and I don't believe I've ever stated otherwise but I don't think you should take your ball and want to go home just because I'm posting something contrary to what you think is happening.I'm telling you from the point of view of someone who has two degrees, and has a 20 year work history. My wife and I are both professionals. If you dont buy what I'm saying, then dont listen.
You are the one who has been continuous in saying there is no supervision and there is no interaction and frankly both statements are simply false.
Once again, you simply ignore the costs of operating physical schools. No one is saying that operating schools online would be free, but the amount they would cost only matters in the context of comparing it to what physical schools cost.As for the network, all the lesson plans, hosting, hardware dont come included with the internet. And you will need tons for an interactive network. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
CF you're playing with words here. If we started a program that passed 95% of its students then that isn't saying you're giving up on 5% by any means.
Your point, profe?
Was that an elaboration of some previous point, or have you started on a new one?
"Man, I've tried nothin' and I'm all out of ideas."
more of an observation. Response to the other posting I quoted.
@CF:
Classic line. One of my ATFs.
In my original comment, though, I wasn't hinting at/talking about a program in which not every student succeeded. I was suggesting a program/mindset in which we determine, as part of its structure, that certain students/types of students lacked the ability to ever be successful in school.
I seem to have missed the observation.
(My bad: I'll try to catch up.)
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