George Gervin was the greatest Spur. He scored the most per game.
Lefty
I love that magazine cover. I just has greatness all over it and in the eyes of greatness.
Yeah yeah that too....exactly what I was gonna post
This, end of discussion. Robinson is really not even close
Let's not forget that at the end of the day we're really splitting hairs and getting caught up in semantics. Robinson and Duncan were (and are) great in their own respects, and without one, the other's impact on basketball in San Antonio would be greatly altered. As great as Big Dave was (and make no mistake--for all you youngsters out there, he was a beast in a league of his own in his prime), he couldn't take the team to the top without Timmy. And as great as Tim was coming out of college, how fortunate was he to have a hall of famer like Robinson to play with and mentor him during those crucial early years of development? You really can't have one without the other. Both men were unbelievable players and, more importantly, amazing people. Whether you're partial to 50 or 21, they've both played a huge role in the fate of basketball in San Antonio.
Duncan.
Absolutely true. Like I said, as fans we're lucky to have had both. Two classy first ballot hall of famers who've given us a team to be proud of for the past 2 decades. There is only one year in the past 20 years, the year that David Robinson was injured and Dominique Wilkins had to carry the team (I'm sure most around here don't remember that) where it was truly painful to be a Spurs fan. Where so many teams see their franchise players jump ship to chase a championship *Lebron* or more $$$ *99% of the league* these two players have given us something to truly be proud of for many many years.
In all honesty, debating these two feels a lot like the 'which decade was the best between 90's and 00's' debate.
i love d-rob, mas it's Duncan. And it's not even close.
best PF of all time, top10 player of all time ..c'mon guys
It's easy - Tim Duncan.
I didn't read the whole thread yet. Robinson saved the franchise, yes. But Tim took it to the level of consideration among the all time great teams like the Bulls. And for those who don't remember Tim being here in '99 to win the championship also saved the franchise in the new millennia.
I wonder if the 'Tim Duncan and it's not even close' people ever saw David Robinson play a single game?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iKzL...eature=related
That's amazing to see Pop, RC and Bob Bass on the sideline! Wow!! Thanks for sharing the link!
As for best Spurs player of all time...well, I went to my first game in the fifth grade which was 1976-77.
First, Iceman kept the franchise here and his immense greatness kept the team from leaving.
The Spurs leaving SA has been an issue from the beginning. Each time there was a real chance of losing them, we had an amazing player to keep them here.
There is no doubt that had George Gervin not been here, they would have left long ago. He was incredible, I've never seen a player like him before or since. The game was very different back then, it was a shooter's game, unlike today. Very few shooter's in today's NBA.
Then along came David Robinson, he was like a 7 foot version of Michael Jordan.
He kept the franchise from leaving as well.
But something happened in the mid-ninties after John Lucas and Bob Hill, the franchise brought back Popovich and that led to stability. The NBA started to emulate stabile franchises, especially Utah. All that led to a feeling that stability was a key factor.
But we still didn't have enough pieces around Robinson, man, effin Vinny Del Negro was his starting guard for a few years!!!!! How sad is that!!
Slowly, the team, under Pop's guidance started to stabilize and really started scouting better than anyone else.
Then Timmy showed up. Immensely talented on D and O.
It isn't so easy to say Tim, David or Ice are the best. To me they each saved the team from leaving. They each brought so much winning.
But it was Greg Popovich that stabilized the "program". He, to me, is the greatest Spur.
As for player, it's 1A, 1B and 1C. Each are totally under rated. My saddst part of being a Spurs fan is that Iceman never won a championship. It wasn't his fault, he did every thing he possibly could but didn't have a good enough cast, including coaches.
Sorry for the long reply...nice off season thread!
I ask myself that very question. Thanks for posted that video.
That '92 Spurs team, that featured Terry mings, Willie Anderson, Rod Strickland & Sean Elliott , was one of the best squads of the Robinson's career (pre-Duncan of course). They were simply not afforded the luxury of playing together very long. Outside of those heralded teammates, Robinson NEVER had the supporting cast around him that Duncan has had. He certainly never had the good fortune of having good teammates for a long period of time, either.
Duncan is widely considered the BEST PF of all time. Period. End of discussion. He probably could've carried the team by himself. Fortunately for him, he didn't need to. Robinson acquiesced. Manu and Tony evolved into great players, all-stars and sure-fire HOFers in their own right. Bowen evolved into the NBA's elite, all-world, perimeter defender over about a 7-year span.
As to the question of which one is the Best Spur ever? Having had a biased, "man-crush" on Robinson, and his superior athletic talents, for the entire balance of his career, while also being a faithful, long-time worshipper at the "Church of Duncan", I simply cannot choose.
However, I would argue with anyone who claims its a runaway in either one's favor.
In 99, the Spurs had Robinson still relatively healthy, anchoring one of the best defenses of all time along with Duncan. There was also Elliott and Elie. Jaren Jackson was on fire during the playoffs, and everybody played with a chip on their shoulders. That team, by any perspective, trumps any of the mid 90's Robinson teams.
05 had Ginobili playing as a top 10 player in the playoffs, Parker rounding off into elite point, Bowen and Horry.
Robinson's best teammate throughout his prime was Elliott, and as much as I hate to say it (be the Ninja is my 2nd favourite Spur of all time), Parker and Ginobili, during their primes, was simply better.
Add to the fact that Robinson never ever had any legitimate outside shooting and inside help (two things any big man in the history of the league needed to succeed), it's really no coincidence Robinson never won a le.
Don't get me wrong, I think in terms of a pure basketball player, Duncan is better, but it is not by a margin as large as most casual basketball fan thinks.
Let me ask you this. Given a choice, would you rather have a young Parker, Ginobili, Speedy Claxton, old Avery Johnson, or would you rather have Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro on the wings?
Would you rather have Rodman, JR Reid and Antoine Carr, or would you rather have an old Robinson/Nazr Mohammed + Oberto by your side?
You should know more than this if you claim to be as much a Duncan fan as you are.
I think I saw every Spurs game back then, between Rogers and Paragon cable.
LOL, Will Perdue trying to shake and bake on Robinson.
How about that steal where he went coast to coast and avoided MJ's steal for the dunk? Wow, that man was amazing.
That announcer mentioned the Spurs were #1 in FG% Defense. I'm telling you, Robinson affected every shot in the paint. If he didn't block it, he made you alter it, he made you look for him.
This just shows you a small sample of how much ground Five-O covered on defense.
Other than in blocks, Duncan has better stats period.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...robinda01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...duncati01.html
Robinson played 13 years. This next year for Duncan will be his 13th. Duncan will never pass David in blocks but after this season he will have him points and he already has him in rebounds and assists.
David Robinson fulfilled an obligation to the Navy after being drafted into San Antonio causing him to join the league 2 years later than he could have. Also he suffered debilitating back and foot injuries that plagued the latter half of his career. It is safe to say that his 'prime' was cut short by at least a good 4 - 5 years because of these two factors. Essentially you're comparing maybe 8 or so seasons of a healthy Robinson plus filler stats from his post injury seasons to Duncans entire career. Also, in those 13 seasons you mention would be one 6 game season that was the very reason we found ourselves back in the lottery to even draft Duncan.
If the question were posed to say who was the better Spur over the course of their entire career I'd likely go with Duncan. I interpreted it as who is the better player.
Either way, I'll go back to my original statement that you can't go wrong with either.
I think we're splitting hairs here anyway, but Robinson's offensive numbers all peaked higher than Timmy's. FG%, PPG, Best Season, FTAs, everything.
Timmy has just been a machine of consistency. And in the playoffs, at his best, Timmy has delivered at a higher rate. But Robinson was just more explosive. I mean, even against the sorry Clippers, can anyone envision Timmy scoring 71 points under any cir stances?
Not being healthy is not a valid excuse. Production is production and Duncan has been hobbled for the last several years as well and still puts up 20/10 night after night.
Statistically, Duncan has better averages in everything but blocks. For the playoffs its not even close.
Duncan is a much better passer and rebounder. Robinson was a slasher and a jump shooter. Duncan is the quintessential big man in the post.
You want to talk about individual seasons but Duncan was voted the best player in basketball three timesto Robinson's one. I would also take Duncan's 2003 season over anything Robinson did.
If I had to pick one to be my father it would be David Robinson but if I have to pick a teammate then its Tim Duncan hands down.
Many greats missed out on MVP awards during the Jordan era.
I meant in terms of a perimeter guy who could get his own shot and create at will off the dribble, like Ginobili and Parker. Jackson, Elie, etc. were spot up shooters. They got the looks they got because of the attention Duncan commanded.
No, I'm not speaking to a different criteria at all. That was why I brought up O'Neal. I never said Duncan was Robinson's equal in the community, etc., what I said was he's also been very loyal, also not taken as much money as he could have, also been extremely humble, unselfish and also been good in the community. It's not like one did all of those things and the other was the polar opposite. So even though Robinson has a leg up on Duncan in some of those respects, I don't see the gap there being as wide as it's often made out to be. Then, when I factored in on court performance, it was a no-brainer that it's Duncan. But I never just considered on court performance.
I'm aware it was a general comment directed at us all, but you inferred that I was some young kid who basically didn't respect Robinson because I wasn't old enough to fully appreciate him (which is why I said, you don't even know how old I am). I'm telling you that's not factoring in, not even in a subconscious way. You don't have to agree with me obviously, but everything I've said has been practical. I'm not saying outrageous things, I'm not some fanboy arguing Duncan is better than Jordan.
Last edited by TD 21; 07-18-2010 at 05:44 PM.
I saw Robinson play his whole career. I've seen Duncan play his whole career. You can't argue with the facts. While Robinson was an AMAZING player, Duncan is one of the the elite, all time greats.
Duncan, in his prime, was the best player at his position and the best player on the planet. Kobe fans may want to disagree, but Kobe needed talented big men to win les. Duncan was the talented big man and has more MVPs and Finals MVPs to prove it.
At no time was Robinson the best big man in the league as he had Hakeem and later Shaq as his equal or better.
What never gets mentioned is that Robinson never had the drive to be the best. You can say all you want about his teammates, but I never saw Robinson exhibit a killer instinct and say, "I'm better than anyone on the court and I will destroy anyone who gets in my way".
What also never gets mentioned is that Duncan had that killer instinct. The best example of course is the 2003 playoffs. Look at how Duncan handles the Lakers in the 4 wins with Game 6 being the best example. Look at how Duncan absolutely destroys the Nets on defense, setting a Finals record for blocks in 6 games, while the previous record was set in 7 games. Do I even have to mention being 2 blocks shy of a quadruple double IN THE FINALS!
In the end, having the killer instinct and drive plays a huge part. It's what separates the Duncans from the Robinsons. It separates the Jordans from the Lebrons. Jordan even came out and said he never would have teamed with Bird and Magic to win les, he wanted to beat them and be better than them.
Robinson should have beaten Hakeem. He was at least as gifted an athlete as Hakeem. But Hakeem was driven. What should have been Robinson's greatest victory to date (MVP and beating the Rockets) ended up being the lasting image of his career.
When Robinson was at his absolute peak, in his best season, he got toyed with by Hakeem. When Duncan was at his absolute peak, in his best season, he absolutely destroyed the compe ion and turned in one of the greatest Finals performances (series and game) ever.
I love DRob. I started watching basketball and understanding the game the same season DRob was a rookie. But if I had to choose to build a franchise from the ground up with the goal of winning championships, I take the guy with a .700 winning percentage, 2 MVPs, 3 Finals MVPs, and 4 rings and I make him my centerpiece.
And by all accounts, off the court, Duncan is a of a man too, so you can't say that Robinson was by far the better person. Robinson has been a tremendous asset to the San Antonio community and we should all be proud to count him as a resident of the city.
But Duncan is a great person to have in the community as well.
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