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You're taking SpursTalk trolls wayyy too seriously. They've won.
Unless you believe any minutes are too much (which probably isn't true for regular season, but is for playoffs).
But there seems to be the stigma here that Pop just won't be able to resist playing Bonner heavily in the rotation.
However, last year Bonner played only the 4th most MPG of big men. Dyess and Blair both got more in their first year in the system, and now the team has added splitter.
When the team is healthy, and who knows how often that will be true, why would it be expected that bonner would see more than 5-8 mpg as a situational player? There's 96 minutes for Bigs to play - Duncan will take up 28-32, Dyess will get 20, Blair will get 20+, which leaves roughly 30 for Splitter, Bonner, and small ball to split.
You're taking SpursTalk trolls wayyy too seriously. They've won.
it's not the amount of minutes. its the amount of damage playing Bonner causes to the Spurs.
he can easily shoot the Spurs out of a quarter in < 3 minutes. Which has happened a lot last year
i don't think it happened that often - the guy doesn't shoot THAT much and he is a solid regular season perimeter shooter (this team lacks many perimeter shooters of any variety at this point).
i've got a bad feeling that this thread is going to turn me into coming across as a bonner defender - which i'm not. i just don't see his return as the utter disaster that some of you obviously do.
I used to make these threads about Finley and Pop a few years ago.
We all know how those turned out.
Tiago needs those minutes simply so he can adapt to NBA and Spurs system ASAP....I'm not a complete Bonner hater. He's knows our system. But if we can win with Tiago taking most of Bonners old minutes and continue to do so......I see Bonner finding himself getting garbage minutes.
It's all about Chemistry One Unit
Last edited by 20beastie45; 07-20-2010 at 12:10 PM. Reason: Forgot
Can we have a sticky for all Bonner related rants?
ANY minutes that Bonner gets is TOO MANY!!!!!!
ANY minutes that Bonner gets is taking minutes away from Blair, Dice,Splitter---and someone else more deserving.
Finley wasn't taking away minutes from any actual talent until George Hill (who was originally used primarily as a PG) came along. Did it really matter whether Finley was playing ahead of Udoka?
Even then, while it took too long, but Pop did eventually realize his mistake.
In this year, we have 3 bigs who Pop already has demonstrated a willingness to play more minutes than Bonner and that's before adding the best big man in Europe into the fold.
And then, when you take into account Pop's love affair with small ball and the occasional inevitable minutes that RJ will see at the 4 (assuming he comes back) - and there is very limited time available for Bonner barring some major injuries. And if those take place, we're screwed whether Bonner plays or not.
Dude you and I both know that Pop is like a crackhead for overplaying vets. Assume its going to happen until proven wrong.
I think it's partially because with the additions last year (Dice, Blair, Jefferson, Haislip, Gist) during the offseason, people figured Bonner would be played out of the rotation for sure.
Instead, there he was, starting on opening night, and a mainstay throughout the entire season and playoffs (except for when he broke his hand).
I think the size of his new contract is part of the issue. Logically what you're describing makes sense. With Splitter in the fold it's entirely possible that by May Bonner could be playing the fewest minutes of any big on the entire team. But when the Spurs sign a guy to a long contract and give him a raise does that sound like they are thinking he'll be playing spot minutes? It's a summer of ridiculous contracts and we may never know what kind of numbers other teams might have offered Bonner. It could be that it's out of deference to the fact that the three bigs ahead of Bonner don't have a healthy knee between them and the Spurs were taking no chances in locking up a known asset in Bonner. Both of those ideas make sense, but until the season starts there's always going to the fear that Pop has lost his mind and gave that contract to Bonner expecting big things in the future.
Bout sums it up.
Is that truly the case?
A couple notes:
1) Duncan and Dyess are vets. Bonner won't play more than them barring injuries. Blair played MORE than Bonner as a rookie. If he gets the G. Hill treatment this year, he should eat into Bonner's minutes even more. And it's not like Splitter is some raw rookie, he's going to play more than Bonner by a good margin (barring injury*).
2) What truly talented young players have been sat by Pop in favor of the vets? Hill a bit as a rookie, I will grant. But that was as much due trying to force him into the back-up PG role as it was anything else. Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Hill, SJax, Malik, Antonio Daniels, Speedy, Devin Brown - all came to the Spurs as unproven NBA talent (some more raw than others) and were heavy rotation players either their first or second year with the team. None languished on the bench for all eternity.
There are a lot of young guys (James White!) that we, as fans, wish Pop would play over the low ceiling vets. But, in most cases, the guys never blossomed period and Pop was proven right.
*re-occurring theme
Gist and Haislip obviously weren't up to the NBA challenge at that point.
If a similar situation unfolds this year - i.e. Splitter and Blair struggle opening up room for Bonner to step in - then we have much bigger problems than Bonner getting PT.
Well the fact that Spurs office is touting the Bonner resigning as the 2nd most important signing in the offseason leads me to beleive Pop will give him similar minutes as last year.
which is way, way, way too many. He sucks at D and as you say, might be a solid regular season shooter but when it matters shrinks like a red wet testicle.
Bonner can only get the same minutes as last year:
a) if we see a major injury (screwed anyways)
b) if he plays more than dyess and/or blair - 2 guys who got more PT than bonner during their first year with the team
c) if splitter plays 0 mpg next year
if you have been led to believe that pop will give him similar minutes, which of those items do you believe is going to happen?
barring the injury factor, i think if bonner gets too much PT this year, it will be in the form of 8-12 mpg. i'll be mildly shocked if he gets 17 mpg on a healthy roster.
Bonner is a great 5th big to have. It's as simple as that. If the Spurs want to pay there 5th big that much money than whatever, Holt can do what he wants. He should get less playing time than any of the other 4 bigs (Duncan,Dice,Blair,Splitter) and shouldnt even see the court during the playoffs. Of course he is going to play during the regular season with Duncan and Dice having there minutes watched by pop. Duncans minutes will continue to decline and would be very surprised if he didn't sit out b2b's this season. Bonner will play and he should play during the regular season, there were not better options out there via FA who could come in and know the system like he does. The Bonner hate is ridiculous and while I am defending him right now by no means am I a "Bonner Lover" but just stfu about the guy.
Actually, Bonner's minutes were seriously reduced last season. Well under the '08-'09 season. I know the injury might have accounted for some of that (and I would like to see him at no more than 15per this season), but I think, if the Spurs are genuinely healthy that Pop would prefer to use Bonner in situational match-up sense. Does that contradict the size of his contract? Absolutely. I can't explain that with logic or reason. I can only assume the FO are making the best decisions for the franchise.
One of the reasons I hope Splitter has an "above expectations" kind of year (aside from the obvious) is that it will force Pop to keep Bonner out of mismatched situations. Blair having a big 2nd year improvement will also help tremendously. Barring injury, there is no reason for Bonner to play more than 15 min per game this year.
It's difficult to gauge anything with Pop, as far as playing time goes, and who plays in front of who. Duncan is pretty much the only constant there.
You look back at last season and...
Regular season averages:
- Duncan 31 mpg
- Dice 20 mpg
- Blair 18 mpg
- Bonner 18 mpg
- Small Ball 9 mpg
Playoffs averages:
- Duncan 37 mpg
- Dice 24 mpg
- Blair 9 mpg
- Bonner 17 mpg
- Small Ball 9 mpg
At first sight, you see Blair basically losing his minutes to both Duncan and Dice, and becoming effectively tied for 4th/5th big with Small Ball. The only big loser here is Blair. All the others either kept their minutes or increased them.
That's why when people make it sound like Blair (or even Splitter for that matter) is going to automatically be in front of Bonner in the rotation, you really need to take a step back and see that's not necessarily what Pop thinks.
But I want to add one more thing. In the very last game of last season, game #4 against Phoenix at home, Bonner probably had his best game shooting-wise (5-6 from the floor, 2-3 from downtown) scoring 14 points. In that instance, Pop actually ended up playing Bonner 30 minutes. The minute-losers that time around ended up being Blair (7 min), Dice (19 min) and Small Ball (4 min).
Now, you would think that makes sense, because he was shooting well. But a closer look at the stat sheet will also show you that he only managed to collect 3 boards in all that time. Blair, in the same game, collected just as many boards in only 7 minutes.
And eventually this is why Pop will over-play Matt. In his newly found love for offense and shooters, whenever he feels Matt has a hot hand, he will try to ride him even to a fault, even if it means giving up second chances, and even in the most important games of the season.
Hes a great 5th big for the appropriate price.
Has Bonners contract been released yet?
newly found love? pop has been trying to surround duncan with as many shooters as possible since the day he drafted him.
No, but its reported to be around 3-4 mil/year. Again, why does it even matter? If Holt is dedicated and not concerned about going over the cap than who cares what he gets payed.You're not paying for it. Holt has showed hes committed to pay to win so who cares..
In the perimeter, yes. Only since Horry came around we've started with the stretch 4 nonsense.
Really? Pop moved David out from under the hoop during Tim's early years, then replaced him with Rasho based primarily on Rasho's (perceived) ability to knock down the 12 footer.
It may not have been labeled as a "stretch 4" back when Tim was clearly labeled as the 4 himself, but Pop has always been about increasing the spacing of the offense so that Tim had room to operate and teams had to think twice before doubling him.
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