Ticket 760: Richard Jefferson to re-sign next week.

[ohmwrecker]

comparing RJ's skillset to those of RMJ and Bowen is a joke btw but point taken.

That was kind of the point. Well, for me anyway.

[angelbelow]

Who would you say did better in their first year as a Spur; Mason or RJ?

Can't accurately guage. 2009 was the year that Ginobili was injured for quite a while and the Spurs were miserable on offense. We had TP, Duncan, and the rest of the point we had to scrap for. As a result, Mason had more offensive freedom compared to RJ.

For RJ, he joined a team that was offensively loaded. We had Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, the emergence of Hill, Dice, Blair.

So in terms of offense, they were in completely different situations and I dont think we can gauge who had a better first season because the situations were so different.

Now in terms of defense.. I would taken RJ over Mason. RJ is bigger, stronger, and has more defensive potential.

[ohmwrecker]

How do you figure McDyess improving. The opposite is more likely, he is a year older.

I think it's possible if he stays healthy and gets reduced minutes from a more experienced Blair and a, hopefully solid, Splitter.

[Dex]

Who would you say did better in their first year as a Spur; Mason or RJ?

Relatively speaking, Mason.

At least Mason experienced a peak when he first joined the Spurs, and was a stable contributor for around half a season until Pop started the point guard experiment. That time with the Spurs was probably one of the strongest periods of his career. Then his production dropped off dramatically, and he was obviously a playoff no-show.

Jefferson wasn't terrible, but aside from the occasional teaser game, he was mired in a valley of his own play the entire season. And also a playoff no-show for the most part (except for Game 2 against Dallas).

At least Mason had a high to come down from. I think we're still waiting to see what Jefferson really has to offer.

[coyotes_geek]

Can't accurately guage. 2009 was the year that Ginobili was injured for quite a while and the Spurs were miserable on offense. We had TP, Duncan, and the rest of the point we had to scrap for. As a result, Mason had more offensive freedom compared to RJ.

For RJ, he joined a team that was offensively loaded. We had Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, the emergence of Hill, Dice, Blair.

So in terms of offense, they were in completely different situations and I dont think we can gauge who had a better first season because the situations were so different.

Now in terms of defense.. I would taken RJ over Mason. RJ is bigger, stronger, and has more defensive potential.

Good analysis. I'd also add that Mason wasn't coming in with near the expectations on him that RJ had on him.

[elemento]

I really miss Bowen !

Wish we had taken Batum. The guy has a huge potential !!

[ohmwrecker]

Who would you say did better in their first year as a Spur; Mason or RJ?

Totally different situations. Mason was a low pressure role player and we still had Berry, Finley and Udoka. RMJ was letting them fly free and easy. RJ had to start and was under a whole lot of pressure. Everything negative that RJ did was magnified and his positives were diminished because he didn't do it consistently enough.

[lefty]

Can't accurately guage. 2009 was the year that Ginobili was injured for quite a while and the Spurs were miserable on offense. We had TP, Duncan, and the rest of the point we had to scrap for. As a result, Mason had more offensive freedom compared to RJ.

For RJ, he joined a team that was offensively loaded. We had Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, the emergence of Hill, Dice, Blair.

So in terms of offense, they were in completely different situations and I dont think we can gauge who had a better first season because the situations were so different.

Now in terms of defense.. I would taken RJ over Mason. RJ is bigger, stronger, and has more defensive potential.

good stuff good stuff

[cd98]

RMJ started strong when he got lots of playing time as TP was injured. But he faded midseason of his first go around as teams realized that he was useless once chased off the three point line. By his second season, he appeared to have no confidence in his shooting.

RJ played well, but not well enough for someone making his money. If we had RJ for the mid level, everyone would have said he was playing well.

That's not to say that we don't need more out of him. But the same could be said of every player on our roster after watching the Spurs get swept by the Suns.

[ElNono]

RJ simply doesn't strike me as the guy that genuinely wants to stay and be coached.

When the season started he was saying all the right things: "I need to learn", "it's on me to get better".
Then when Pop started playing him at the 4, at first he said the right things again, "this is the first time I play there", "I need to learn the new position", etc.
Then he complained about it "I told pop I don't feel comfortable there, and he understood", etc.
Ultimately Pop kept on playing him at the 4, simply because he was the best option there for small ball.

The reality is that he never fit at the 3 or at the 4. And it's not because of lack of trying, it's just that he has lost any lateral mobility he had, and also because in our system he was needed to also be a spot up shooter, something he is not. On top of that, his motivation for defense seems to be entirely tied to his touches on offense.

In short, I don't think he's really looking to come back. If he does, it's probably going to be an entirely money-driven decision. I also don't think the FO is blind to this, and I don't think they want to offer him anything long term either.

Just my 2c.

[alchemist]

RJ would help out tremendously in a Nash/Kidd/Paul/Deron system, he's definitely not cut out to be a current Spur. If it's a 4 year deal hopefully the last 3 years are team options

[Spurs Brazil]

JMcDonald_SAEN
For those who would rather get their Spurs/RJ fix from Stein instead of me: http://es.pn/97K3qL (Basically says this week's the week)

McDonald knows nobody trust him

[DPG21920]

Why is it a given to sign RJ to a LTD? Why not one year or two? Who is giving him any offers?

[ohmwrecker]

Why is it a given to sign RJ to a LTD? Why not one year or two? Who is giving him any offers?

I think he had some kind of loose agreement with the Spurs in place before he opted out and that the details of that agreement would be hashed out after both parties had explored the options. The Spurs more than likely agreed to give Jefferson a long term contract and he agreed to less money.

[DPG21920]

That is the most likely scenario (unless Jefferson is not really smart), but then why wait so long or why not wait longer?

If there is no agreement, Spurs should offer no more than 2 years. They should absolutely not sign him longer than that and they don't need to outbid themselves if there was no pre-arranged deal.

[ohmwrecker]

Maybe the Spurs are ready to sign a back-up SF and wanted to lockdown RJ first.

[coyotes_geek]

That is the most likely scenario (unless Jefferson is not really smart), but then why wait so long or why not wait longer?

If there is no agreement, Spurs should offer no more than 2 years. They should absolutely not sign him longer than that and they don't need to outbid themselves if there was no pre-arranged deal.

If you only offer 2 years you open up the compe ion to teams willing to offer more years than that. There's still a good number of teams with their full MLE's, and it would only take one willing to offer full MLE for 4 years to beat any 2 year deal that you would want the Spurs to offer.

Was there a team out there willing to offer up full MLE for 4 years? Hard to say. There sure hasn't been much FA buzz about Jefferson, but is that because no team out there thinks highly of him? Or is it because the Spurs had priced out about 2/3 of the market by making him a long term offer at something over the MLE? There's bidding against yourself and then there's bidding enough to price out your compe ion. We'll just have to see the contract details to make a judgement on which applies here.

[DPG21920]

If you only offer 2 years you open up the compe ion to teams willing to offer more years than that. There's still a good number of teams with their full MLE's, and it would only take one willing to offer full MLE for 4 years to beat any 2 year deal that you would want the Spurs to offer.

So? Let them make the offer and then match if you want to. I don't see anyone offering the full MLE to an aging Jefferson. IMO it is worth the risk, because for the Spurs, even worst case scenario, full MLE is not terrible value for RJ (not as a fit, but overall talent).

Was there a team out there willing to offer up full MLE for 4 years? Hard to say. There sure hasn't been much FA buzz about Jefferson, but is that because no team out there thinks highly of him? Or is it because the Spurs had priced out about 2/3 of the market by making him a long term offer at something over the MLE? There's bidding against yourself and then there's bidding enough to price out your compe ion. We'll just have to see the contract details to make a judgement on which applies here.

There is nothing that the Spurs could offer that would keep a team from offering the full MLE imo. Even if the Spurs offered 4/40 which is by far the highest thing speculated, a team could easily still offer a 5 year MLE offer and come close to that.

[ohmwrecker]

I don't see anyone offering the full MLE to an aging Jefferson.

He's only 30. Bruce was 30 his first year with the Spurs. I'm not comparing the two . . . but, it is plausible that Jefferson could have a career renaissance. He is still young, healthy and he possesses the skills. He just needs to put in the effort. If Pop thinks he can get through to him, then you have to believe there is a possibility.

[DPG21920]

It is definitely possible, but if RJ can't get a good deal in this market, that saw guys like Petro, Frye, Gooden.....get deals, then his stock can't be that high.

[ohmwrecker]

Bigs are over-valued.

[ElNono]

If a team offers 4/MLE, then the Spurs match and you end up getting the better value for RJ. Spurs are happy because they paid market value. RJ is happy because he gets his 4 years. And that's the end of that.

Still better value than the $25m+ being talked about right now.

[DPG21920]

Bigs are over-valued.

True, but Petro? What about Kleiza or Gay for 85M, or Joe for 120+M, or Red 20M, Miller 30M

Everyone but RJ cashed in somewhat.

[ohmwrecker]

I know. I think last season really hurt his value. Gay is a low risk investment. Johnson is pretty solid and the Hawks know what they have there. Miller got the best deal the Heat could offer after 631. Kleiza and Red ? You got me there. I don't know.
Truth is, we don't really know what RJ was offered. Maybe money wasn't the only motivating factor in his plan?

[DPG21920]

Perhaps, but RJ is a pretty big name and him opting out was a surprise to everyone. Having said that, we have not heard a peep about any offers. He was under a microscope and we heard nothing.

He made it pretty well known from most reports he did not want to play in SA. All those things add up to his value being low imo. If that is the case and there was no arranged deal for him to opt out, I low ball him big time.

I take the risk that someone swoops in with a full MLE offer.