Repug hate having their lies destroyed

[clambake]

lol

[ChumpDumper]

This was two different agencies acting on their own for the most part.

As you point out thought, "major combat operations" is not "all combat operations." Therefore, the mission of the war is not yet accomplished.

The left likes to misrepresent the meaning. That is their stupidity. Not ours.

Yes, because there were no major military operations in Iraq after the Mission Accomplished debacle.

Not one.

[Wild Cobra]

So WC, given the above logic, what specific mission do you think the aircraft carrier performed that it deserved such a high profile recognition?

I don't recall all the details that far back.

Isn't returning to home port good enough for that carrier's current mission being over, i.e. accomplished?

Are you saying that banners are never put on ships returning home, when the crews families are waiting for them? That this is unusual?

One of the first, if not the first, navel vessel returning to home port after a wartime deployment.

Isn't that enough of an accomplishment for you?

If your standards are higher, then OK. I'll live with that.

[spursncowboys]

WC, let's look at your logic on this point.

1) Aircraft carriers around the world perform various missions simultaneously. (Given)

2) Not every aircraft carrier puts up a giant banner signifying the accomplishment of a mission, which is then televised.

3) Not every aircraft carrier gets a personal visit from Bush upon accomplishment of a mission.

4) From 2 & 3, we can deduce that Bush appearing on the plane, as well as the banner, was uniquely significant.

5) From 4, we can deduce there was a specific mission accomplished, as the accolades were unique in themselves.

So WC, given the above logic, what specific mission do you think the aircraft carrier performed that it deserved such a high profile recognition?

they had the longest deployment at the time of 18 months. Bill sammons, yes he's a bush guy, said the banner was about the military. I believe that.

[LnGrrrR]

This was two different agencies acting on their own for the most part.

As you point out thought, "major combat operations" is not "all combat operations." Therefore, the mission of the war is not yet accomplished.

The left likes to misrepresent the meaning. That is their stupidity. Not ours.

ARe you stating that all major combat operations were over in Iraq? Or maybe you mean all the current major combat operations were over, but that Bush planned on starting a whole bunch of new ones the next day, and he was just happy that these specific operations were over?

[clambake]

the banner was about a staged event.........that burned taxpayer money.

[ChumpDumper]

the banner was about a staged event.........that burned taxpayer money.

It was an elitist banner.

[clambake]

the banner should have said "have you seen my daughters today?"

[LnGrrrR]

I don't recall all the details that far back.

Isn't returning to home port good enough for that carrier's current mission being over, i.e. accomplished?

Are you saying that banners are never put on ships returning home, when the crews families are waiting for them? That this is unusual?

One of the first, if not the first, navel vessel returning to home port after a wartime deployment.

Isn't that enough of an accomplishment for you?

If your standards are higher, then OK. I'll live with that.

I would argue that the significance of an event that is only about a ship coming home (important yes) and the significance attached to it (giant banner seen on live TV, national address from the President) don't quite match up.

However, if the event was actually talking about the end of all major combat ops, then the address by Bush would have been fitting.

Banners are probably hung on ships returning home, but their return isn't greeted by live TV and a speech by the President.

[Wild Cobra]

ARe you stating that all major combat operations were over in Iraq? Or maybe you mean all the current major combat operations were over, but that Bush planned on starting a whole bunch of new ones the next day, and he was just happy that these specific operations were over?

Shock and Awe was over. The constant pounding was over. we had already secured a large area. Sure, there were still large scale operations, but not like before his speech.

[ChumpDumper]

Shock and Awe was over. The constant pounding was over. we had already secured a large area. Sure, there were still large scale operations, but not like before his speech.

So it was not the end of major military operations in Iraq.

OK.

[LnGrrrR]

Shock and Awe was over. The constant pounding was over. we had already secured a large area. Sure, there were still large scale operations, but not like before his speech.

To the public at large, (and most of the military) there is not a big difference between "large scale" and "major combat operations" is there? Would you argue that since that day, what we've done in Iraq doesn't cons ute "major combat operations"?

[clambake]

So it was not the end of major military operations in Iraq.

OK.

yeah, but at the time, bush didn't know that.

[Wild Cobra]

Banners are probably hung on ships returning home, but their return isn't greeted by live TV and a speech by the President.

So is it your contention, that under such cir stances, banners should be removed?

[Wild Cobra]

Would you argue that since that day, what we've done in Iraq doesn't cons ute "major combat operations"?

I believe so, but I don't have the relevant facts.

I would say major combat operations were done, because we then split the different units into many less coordinated large scale operations, rather than one focused operation.

[LnGrrrR]

So is it your contention, that under such cir stances, banners should be removed?

I don't see anything wrong with the banner, assuming that all major combat operations were ended.

Do you think all major combat operations were ended?

[Wild Cobra]

I don't see anything wrong with the banner, assuming that all major combat operations were ended.

Well, we are on different wavelengths. You are acting as if the carrier should be 100% tied to the presidents speech. I disagree with that.

Do you think the makers of the banner knew the words in the president's speech before putting up the banner?

Do you think all major combat operations were ended?

Asked and answered.

[spursncowboys]

the banner was about a staged event.........that burned taxpayer money.

im ok with spending money to celebrate veterans coming home.

[clambake]

im ok with spending money to celebrate veterans coming home.

yeah, it would have been great if it were about veterans coming home.

[LnGrrrR]

I believe so, but I don't have the relevant facts.

I would say major combat operations were done, because we then split the different units into many less coordinated large scale operations, rather than one focused operation.

Wouldn't you say it's misleading to argue that "major combat operations" are finished, if the tempo of operations remains the same but is split into various other operations?

[LnGrrrR]

Well, we are on different wavelengths. You are acting as if the carrier should be 100% tied to the presidents speech. I disagree with that.

If the banner was only about the mission of the carrier, isn't it somewhat short-sighted of the President's team to not assume that a banner which read "Mission Accomplished" might not be associated with the speech the President was making in which he was discussing the end of all major combat operations?

Do you think the makers of the banner knew the words in the president's speech before putting up the banner?

Do you think that Presidential team might not have thought that a giant "Mission Accomplished" banner might not be associated with the President's speech in which he was talking about a specific mission being accomplished?

Asked and answered.

So you think that all major combat operations were completed, and replaced with "large scale" combat operations.

In the same sense, I could say that I could tell my boss that I "finished" the major pieces of a project, even if I still had years to go before I was done with it, because I'd only have some "large scale" pieces left to finish.

[Wild Cobra]

This is pointless. we are going in circles.

I'll give you a bone though. The WH did know that specific banner would be there. Did you know that?

I know, makes your argument better. However, I say they are still separate issues, and for the left to make it a bis issue is real silly I think.

[clambake]

it's silly to pretend they weren't connected.

[LnGrrrR]

I'll give you a bone though. The WH did know that specific banner would be there. Did you know that?

I know, makes your argument better. However, I say they are still separate issues, and for the left to make it a bis issue is real silly I think.

I assumed the White House knew... it's kinda hard to miss, after all. And it's not like they couldn't have asked the crew to take it down temporarily. It shows poor planning on their part, to think that the two messages (Missions Accomplished + all major combat ops ended) wouldn't be seen as one message by the viewing audience.

[ChumpDumper]

The WH did know that specific banner would be there. Did you know that?

Yeah. They made the banner. So it's not a stretch to think they knew it would be there.