RJ's Contract Details

[Chieflion]

Pakistani doesn't seem to get the fact my skin is not dark in color and not from Pakistan washing goats and cooking curry.

[Chieflion]

Are you a chic? I like gook pussy. If so, PM me.

No. I am not female. I am sure Culburn hasn't had his way with a young Pakistani male before. If you are desperate, look for him in Arizona.

[Chieflion]

Hey, what part of Asia are you from?

I am sorry, I don't do or in the ass. Look for Culburn for that.

[toki9]

Let me have fun with him for a moment. I think he's confused into thinking only gooks are considered Asian.

FYI, I'm also Asian...and I used to get called that a lot in school...in fact, i even got chased down while returning from work at night by a bunch of Italian-American teenagers in Brooklyn because they thought I didn't belong in their neighborhood...

[Darkwaters]

I currently live in Asia.

Go me.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

LOL at this bull meltdown. Blaming the FO when not paying enough for talent, then blaming them when overpaying for the best possible option. Fickle much?

Who gives a damn about RJ's 3rd and 4th year? Really, if you think about it, it doesn't make sense to flip out at all, as the Spurs will suck badly anyway and will be lottery bound with or without RJ, this could only eventually concern Holt, but to about it right now is just taking the piss for the sake of it. His 4th year? Partially guaranteed and an eventual valuable trading chip at a time when the Spurs will be rebuilding? oh NOES!

He's the best option for the next two years, realistically. He gives the Spurs the best chance to contend until Tim retires, so re-signing him, while ALSO staying under the threshold is a brilliant move and I'm sure the Spurs have discussed this with him long before he opted out.

When the Spurs end up just under the lux tax, then you must know they've had it all go their way.

[jesterbobman]

On net, The deals are fine. We underpaid for Splitter, (Even if you take MLE minus his contract, in reality I'd say he could've got more on an open market. Probably around 7 million. So we saved like 3.6 million(Or 2.4 With the MLE), RJ's deal probably would've seemed fair at 3 years 25 million, so the overpayment in the 1st year is around 1.5 million. Splitters deal shouldn't matter, but it is a silver lining in the overall financial maangement. Also, RJ had some pretty good ammunition in the contracts that guys like Travis Outlaw got, the deal offered to Barnes and the fact that the Spurs kind of needed to sign him, there wasn't another real option. Sure, They paid more than they should've, but they had to. As much as We all want Hairston and Gee to be productive, It's unlikely that they'd be able to replicate RJ's production, and Not a logical risk to take considering the goal is to win a le.

Are we top contenders now? Probably not, The Heat and Lakers are. But If we go back to having 3 of the Top 10 in PER(As Tim, Tony and Manu were for a few seasons), and our supporting cast as it is(Probably the most talented in the Big 3 era, though maybe not the best fit) We're good enough to get to the final 4, Then hope it falls our way. we can't expect to win a le, But RJ gives us a chance to grab a seat at the table.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Spurs fans really need to understand something when it comes to the thinking behind this team.

There
Is
No
Long
Term

You have a coach who will likely retire when his main star retires within 3 years. You have the franchise who will more than likely retire within 3 years. You have a point guard who may very well leave for a new challenge in a year. You have a lot of young players who could possibly fill roles, but no true prospect to become the franchise outside of your point guard who may shortly leave as mentioned above. You have an owner who likely wanted very much to avoid the luxury tax this year and would rather pay 40 million over 4 years than 20 million over one year.

Overpaying could come back to bite the Spurs this year. There's no doubt about that. Maybe even next year, but there is also no doubt that the Spurs could not replace RJ with anything better than Malik Hariston and that was a worse option than taking a shot again with RJ.

DPG you can argue the opposite all you want but everyone you mentioned picking up for the LLE or something similar earlier this off season signed for more than we could have given them.

It comes down to the Spurs being in a ty situation and maximizing their chances this year at the cost of years 2-4. You guys may not like reality, but reality is what reality is.

There
Is
No
Long
Term.

I know that as well as you, I just don't think RJ does anything to improve us in either the short or long term.

! The guy does not fit! You rail against playing the youth, but who is to say that Gee or Hairston can't be the next Matthews or Morrow? Obviously not Morrow, as neither is a true shooter, but you get the point, right? PLAY THE YOUTH... certainly ahead of playing a massively overpaid 30yo non-fit like RJ! Get a cheap vet like Simmons in to play half a game, and give the other half to the best of those two young guys to show us their ceiling. Seems obvious to me... and DPG... and baseline... and a lot of others.

BTW, I'm not calling you stupid because you're a very smart guy, I'm just saying that there are two pretty clear views on this, and only time will tell who was right. I say build, especially if the other choice is also-ran, which is what RJ is for this team. He stifles the development of youth while offering nothing that will take us over the top.

If I am wrong, please bump this thread and I will readily admit it. However, I don't think I am. I say roll the dice with young, energetic, talented players and see if they have it in them to outperform. That is our only chance at the end of the Duncan era, and our best option to pursue in rebuilding the team.

I wonder if they are already pre-clearing up a spot in the rafters for his jersey retirement.

Please no!

I know you're a drama queen but this is over the top even for you. Duncan's decline along with injuries have locked this team into mediocrity.

The drama queen comment is out of line - I was one back before about 2007, but since then I've actually been far more moderate and a generally steadying influence around here (check my posts if you disagree)... except for the odd bout of stoneposting...

Probably not, but they're rolling the dice with Jefferson because thats a better option than Malik Hairston starting as your 3.

It is what it is, but the amount of angst generated by a deal is over the top.

Not unreasonable, but I think this is a clash of ideology - some of us want to go young, others want the old guard.

Yeah, this is the worst case scenario. Jefferson may be somewhat decent in another system, but with the Spurs he's a terrible player who contributes negative utility to the team just like Bonner. There's nothing Jefferson does well for this team, and I hate continually hearing the he's a warm body argument (e.g., he's a SF and better than nothing - bull ). Imagine if the Spurs didn't have the balls to roll the dice and play an unknown named Stephen Jackson when they had a declining once-big-name player in Steve Smith who could have been getting those minutes. Committing four years to this guy is the nightmare scenario. I would have rather lost him for nothing.

Thank you. No really, dude, thank you. Exactly. We are brothers of the mind.

I get it all. I get your points. They just don't add up. I stated why. I'm not the only one.

You and me on this one, bra...

Exactly, I honestly don't think that we will fall of THAT much

That is not the goal... falling a little means a first round exit. Is that what we're happy to aim for? I'm not. Play the youth, roll the dice for a real improvement or missing the playoffs. Just in advance the cause of the franchise.

[MaNu4Tres]

That is not the goal... falling a little means a first round exit. Is that what we're happy to aim for? I'm not. Play the youth, roll the dice for a real improvement or missing the playoffs. Just in advance the cause of the franchise.

There was no realistic scenario the Spurs could have done to put them in a better position the next two years. At least realistically.

I'm all for giving the young guys an opportunity as well.

And next year even with Jefferson, the young guys will have a significant opportunity with Finley, Mason and Bogans all gone. (10-20 MPG at the 2; 15-18 MPG at the SF position.)

So saying you rather give the young players an opportunity instead of re-signing R.J doesn't make sense.


To my understanding you have been pretty damn adamant on the Spurs letting R.J go and signing a player like Simmons, Nachbar, Hayes (best case signings) to play 24-28 minutes a night.

Do you understand that scenario (instead of the current scenario; R.J re-signed) just gives the young players 6-8 more minutes a night?

So you'd be willing to sacrifice significant talent at the starting SF position (Jefferson for Simmons, Nachbar, Hayes at best*) in order to free up a measly 6-8 minutes a night for the young wings? That makes no sense.

As I said already, the young players will still be given a significant opportunity with the newly re-signed R.J because of Mason, Bogans and Finley all gone.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

There was no realistic scenario the Spurs could have done to put them in a better position the next two years. At least realistically.

I'm all for giving the young guys an opportunity as well.

And next year even with Jefferson, the young guys will have a significant opportunity with Finley, Mason and Bogans all gone. (10-20 MPG at the 2; 15-18 MPG at the SF position.)

So saying you rather give the young players an opportunity instead of re-signing R.J doesn't make sense.


To my understanding you have been pretty damn adamant on the Spurs letting R.J go and signing a player like Simmons, Nachbar, Hayes (best case signings) to play 24-28 minutes a night.

Do you understand that scenario (instead of the current scenario; R.J re-signed) just gives the young players 6-8 more minutes a night?

So you'd be willing to sacrifice significant talent at the starting SF position (Jefferson for Simmons, Nachbar, Hayes at best*) in order to free up a measly 6-8 minutes a night for the young wings? That makes no sense.

As I said already, the young players will be still be given a significant opportunity with the newly re-signed R.J because of Mason, Bogans and Finley all gone.

Yup, call me crazy, but I would rather have gone vet/Gee/Hairston and kept a toxic 10mil salary out of our cap at a time when the cap is sure to contract and major changes are underfoot in the CBA.

Richard Jefferson is highly unlikely to be the difference for this team. He commits us to patchy play unsuited to the Spurs' system at the SF. You can't change an average player like RJ at 30. MJ could adjust his game from driving to the fadeaway as his athleticism waned, RJ not so much. Dumb in move.

Anyway, agree to disagree. You make a convincing case. I just think the counter-case is stronger. Peace, brother SpursTalker.

[Solid D]

I hope RJ can stay focused and engaged defensively. He may or may not end up under contract with the Spurs but RJ needs to become more of a key contributor. At $8M or 9M per year, the Spurs need value.

Look at what value the Lakers get from Ron Artest. He plays the same position and is contracted to make $10M less than RJ over the next 4 seasons:
2010-11.........2011-12........2012-13......2013-14
$6,322,320....$6,790,640...$7,258,960...$7,727,280

The Spurs get great value from the contracts of Duncan, Ginobili, Parker and many other role players, so if RJ stays...that value/$ needs to increase.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I hope RJ can stay focused and engaged defensively. He may or may not end up under contract with the Spurs but RJ needs to become more of a key contributor. At $8M or 9M per year, the Spurs need value.

Look at what value the Lakers get from Ron Artest. He plays the same position and is contracted to make $10M less than RJ over the next 4 seasons:
2010-11.........2011-12........2012-13......2013-14
$6,322,320....$6,790,640...$7,258,960...$7,727,280

The Spurs get great value from the contracts of Duncan, Ginobili, Parker and many other role players, so if RJ stays...that value/$ needs to increase.

Totally agree, but is it likely? Not so much. I give RJ a 20% chance of being a significant piece in the hypothetical improvement of this team next year.

Dreams are all we have at this stage.

[MaNu4Tres]

Yup, call me crazy, but I would rather have gone vet/Gee/Hairston and kept a toxic 10mil salary out of our cap at a time when the cap is sure to contract and major changes are underfoot in the CBA.

Do you realize if Spurs signed Simmons or Hayes with the remainder of the MLE for say 3 years, the difference between their contract and R.J's is not close to 10 million?


1st year: (R.J's)8.4 million- (F.A) 2.365 million = 6.04 million
2nd year: 9.28 million- 2.55 million = 6.78 million
3rd year: 10.16 million- 2.74 million = 7.42 million

Even if it was 10 million extra in cap space like you say, which it is obviously not, the Spurs would still not be able to afford a significant free agent anyway with or without R.J the next two seasons, which was stated here

R.J's new deal won't hinder their rebuilding process with Manu and Tim making maximum salary the next 2 seasons. Spurs wouldn't be able to afford a significant free agent anyway the next 2 years with or without R.J's new deal.

His new deal doesn't handcuff them in any potential signings or take away their future 1st round picks either.

I also care about the future, but I'm fully aware R.J's contract (when it won't be as valuable to other teams --the first 2 seasons) won't hurt the Spurs from adding anything because of cap situation with Manu, Tim, Splitter, Bonner, Anderson, Blair, Hill, McDyess, Gee, Temple, Neal, 2010 MLE SF signing all under contract. They will still only have around 5-7 million to make additions via MLE/ LLE with or without R.J's new deal.

Entering his 3rd season, Tim's contract comes off the books for 20 million and Spurs will have valuable expiring contracts ( Manu and R.J's) to make a move(s) for the future.

Richard Jefferson is highly unlikely to be the difference for this team. He commits us to patchy play unsuited to the Spurs' system at the SF. You can't change an average player like RJ at 30. MJ could adjust his game from driving to the fadeaway as his athleticism waned, RJ not so much. Dumb in move.

We can agree to disagree on this.

There were no signs to suggest that R.J's athleticism was declining and I don't think he's an average player. In fact, he has a high talented ceiling to reasonably believe he has the ability to improve to be more efficiently effective in a mul ude of ways (not just one way like Mason(shooting) or Bogans(decent defense)).

If he didn't have such a proven resume and if he was one-dimensional with a low ceiling like a Mason or Bogans then I'd agree with you. But that is not the case with Jefferson. IMO

So to say he can't change from last year, when he's proved year in and year out to be a top 10 small forward in the league doesn't make sense to me.

Spurs had much bigger issues and weaknesses last year, such as a horrid nucleus of a bench in Mason, Bogans, to an extent Bonner over Blair (which they have already improved simply by having Anderson and Hairston on the roster in place of Mason, Bogans).

The second major weakness was the fact that the interior defense had deteriorated and was the worst it had ever been in the Duncan era (which they improved by signing Splitter).

I give RJ a 20% chance of being a significant piece in the hypothetical improvement of this team next year.

Spurs are spending 6.04 million more in year one /6.78 million more in year 2/7.42 million more in year 3 because they don't want the team to regress as a whole with new additions (Splitter, Anderson, fresh Parker/Manu, improved Blair/Hill, Hairston finally getting an opportunity).

If the Spurs decided to save the 6.04 million+, the Spurs wouldn't have improved as much with the new additions because of the significant difference between Jefferson and Simmons or Hayes (best case scenario)starting.

By spending the money, Spurs are only significantly improving.

[lurker23]

JMcDonald_SAEN

One correction to RJ deal. Fourth year IS fully guaranteed, with a player option. #spurs

http://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/19254953735

A little funny, considering earlier...

Which reports? I trust our sources. RT @AirAlamo some reports are saying that the last year is a player option, what's the deal?

http://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/19217235825

[Chieflion]

JMcDonald_SAEN

One correction to RJ deal. Fourth year IS fully guaranteed, with a player option. #spurs

http://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/19254953735

A little funny, considering earlier...

Which reports? I trust our sources. RT @AirAlamo some reports are saying that the last year is a player option, what's the deal?

http://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/19217235825

I want to punch somebody right now. I don't exactly feel comfortable about this.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Do you realize if Spurs signed Simmons or Hayes with the remainder of the MLE for say 3 years, the difference between their contract and R.J's is not close to 10 million?


1st year: (R.J's)8.4 million- (F.A) 2.365 million = 6.04 million
2nd year: 9.28 million- 2.55 million = 6.78 million
3rd year: 10.16 million- 2.74 million = 7.42 million

Even if it was 10 million extra in cap space like you say, which it is obviously not, the Spurs would still not be able to afford a significant free agent anyway with or without R.J the next two seasons, which was stated here

I have never debated this on pure numbers - my concern has always been that this locks us into an aging RJ with an unmovable contract. He was barely worth the MLE, so no-one is likely to want to take him with this albatross. We've got him for 3-4 years.

We can agree to disagree on this.

There were no signs to suggest that R.J's athleticism was declining and I don't think he's an average player. In fact, he has a high talented ceiling to reasonably believe he has the ability to improve to be more efficiently effective in a mul ude of ways (not just one way like Mason(shooting) or Bogans(decent defense)).

If he didn't have such a proven resume and if he was one-dimensional with a low ceiling like a Mason or Bogans then I'd agree with you. But that is not the case with Jefferson. IMO

So to say he can't change from last year, when he's proved year in and year out to be a top 10 small forward in the league doesn't make sense to me.

How many 30yo SF have a double peak in their career? Name one. I very much doubt RJ can improve his game from here. Last year and fading is what we'll get from now on. If I'm wrong about that I'll be happy.

Spurs had much bigger issues and weaknesses last year, such as a horrid nucleus of a bench in Mason, Bogans, to an extent Bonner over Blair (which they have already improved simply by having Anderson and Hairston on the roster in place of Mason, Bogans).

The second major weakness was the fact that the interior defense had deteriorated and was the worst it had ever been in the Duncan era (which they improved by signing Splitter).

Agreed.

Spurs are spending 6.04 million more in year one /6.78 million more in year 2/7.42 million more in year 3 because they don't want the team to regress as a whole with new additions (Splitter, Anderson, fresh Parker/Manu, improved Blair/Hill, Hairston finally getting an opportunity).

If the Spurs decided to save the 6.04 million+, the Spurs wouldn't have improved as much with the new additions because of the significant difference between Jefferson and Simmons or Hayes (best case scenario)starting.

By spending the money, Spurs are only significantly improving.

How do you know that Gee or Hairston mightn't bloom with playing time? We'll never know now that Pop will have to play RJ 32-36mins a night.

Well argued, my friend. We shall see. I hope you are right, not me.

[Dr. Gonzo]

People care too much. Just watch, cheer and move on with life.

[tuncaboylu]

4th year as player option...

I think that our FO is assuming that RJ will opt out again another 10M+ contract

[Texas_Ranger]

JMcDonald_SAEN

One correction to RJ deal. Fourth year IS fully guaranteed, with a player option. #spurs

http://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/19254953735

A little funny, considering earlier...

Which reports? I trust our sources. RT @AirAlamo some reports are saying that the last year is a player option, what's the deal?

http://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/19217235825

[Lebowski Brickowski]

JMcDonald_SAEN

One correction to RJ deal. Fourth year IS fully guaranteed, with a player option. #spurs

http://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/19254953735

A little funny, considering earlier...

Which reports? I trust our sources. RT @AirAlamo some reports are saying that the last year is a player option, what's the deal?

http://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/19217235825

well that's strange

[Seventyniner]

4th year fully guaranteed? Ouch! Why not make it a 5 year deal with an unguaranteed final year, then? That's why I originally thought that the 4th year was at most a partial guarantee, so the Spurs could get a trade asset, and it wouldn't matter to RJ anyway.

[panic giraffe]

I get it now. RC wants to leave, but doesn't want to seem like the who left just for more money, so he's trying to get fired on purpose by making ty contracts. Instead though he's turned into that dude from office space, and accidentally doing some good like the splitter contract.

[elemento]

hahahahaha

And it's getting worse

RJ's agent is a god !!

[Nathan89]

Hey buford , maybe you should work on your negotiating skill during the regular season because you suck. Cant believe the spurs gave jefferson everything he could have realistically ask for.

Jefferson went up to Rc with demanding some unrealistic amount of money so the spurs would counter and offer exactly what he wanted in the first place. The spurs just got played.

I thought we were the best in the business all this contract has made me reconsider.

[Tp9gospursgo]

Heres to hoping he has a better 2nd year with the Spurs