Support for Mexican border fence up to 68%

[ElNono]

The Berlin was was to keep people in. This one is top keep people out.

What's so different from a '400 yard wide fully enforced kill zone'?

[ElNono]

You guys are still trying to put me in that stereotype republican box.

I'm saying that for all the politicians (democrat and republican) that are "for" sealing the border it's impossible. The ONLY way to do it is something as draconian as I just facetiously proposed and they would still find a way to get drugs into the country.

I say legalize, regulate, and distribute pot. Take the narcos bread and butter away from them. Come up with a very reasonable and easy to get green card system. The trade off is they agree to stay in the system and pay a tax (10%?) Make it in employers best interest to hire green card aliens ( no matching SS and Medicaid, no WC or UC) and the fine the everloving out of the employers that still hire the undo ented workers. Get caught here illegal? You're going back to Mexico in a cattle truck today if we don't put your ass in jail for whatever law you broke that brought you to our attention.

Amend the 14th amendment. It's outlived it's time. It was put in place to make sure all slave children would have citizenship. We haven't had slaves for 150 years. this anchor baby bull .

OK, my proposal isn't perfect and I'm sure you guys will get hardons trying to shoot holes in it...chump will sit back and go "does this mean you...(fill in the blank)"

whatever.

Lay your ing plans on the table.

I think there's two different issues here that need to be separated because IMO they need to be addressed separately.

1) Drug trafficking through the border
2) Illegal immigration

I agree with your angle about the drugs problem. Just give it up with the war on drugs, at least partially. You give the green light to recreational stuff, regulate the out of them, and tax it to death. Just as long as the price is not way higher than the black market, it should work.

The immigration part is a lot more complicated. There's just simply too many variables. Ideally, I would like a system where actual legal residents and even citizens are not 'suspected to be illegal aliens unless proven otherwise'.
I don't necessarily know what that system would look like.
There's definitely a lot of enforcement at the federal level that could be done and it's not being done. There's also a meeting point in almost every town where dozens illegals show up waiting to be picked up for a day of work.
Here is the local train station. They're there every day in plain sight. There's no way LE doesn't know, or can't alert ICE.

So, I think we can do a lot better with the system that we already have.
We can also improve in certain things. For example, almost half of the illegals in the country didn't enter illegally. So before handing out tourist visas, require a blood test if you're a female, and if it shows she's pregnant, just deny the visa. In general I think the country needs to be more strict about handing out visitor's visas. Then there's technology. Make everyone visiting a hospital or clinic to scan their thumb fingerprint or get an iris scanned. Share that data with ICE. You don't have to detain anybody or deny service to anybody at that time, but at least ICE can track who is where and potentially be in the lookout for them. For citizens or legal residents it's not really a problem since they're already giving out their personal info as part of obtaining services anyways. Just some ideas. I'm sure there's more out there that are non-intrusive and would be just as effective.

Even if you can't kill all illegal immigration, if you can at least halve it by resolving the most glaring issues that can be attacked, then it will be a great start.

[ElNono]

I would like to see that done, but that is a difficult task.

How about making declaring a ward in each border hospital as Mexican soil, leasing it to Mexican doctors for a very reasonable monthly rate. Then when a child is born, they are given a Mexican consulate birth certificate?

Now I know there are some legal issue I'm not aware of, but why couldn't a wing of a hospital be declared such?

lol thinking this happens in border hospitals only...

Plenty of illegals here in NJ having their babies... specifically in this area, mostly Brazilians.

[CosmicCowboy]

So wheres Chumps plan?

Or do you just prefer jumping around like a flea taking little bites out of everyone else instead of doing any substantial thinking on your own?

[Stringer_Bell]

We need a concrete wall, not a fence. Patrol it with predator drones, dispatch National Guard/Border Patrol as needed.

The only problem with it is if you need to GET OUT, but hey, why would anyone wanna do that?

[boutons_deux]

"We need a concrete wall, not a fence. Patrol it with predator drones, dispatch National Guard/Border Patrol as needed."

Who pays for the spending? There's a big deficit the right-wing says won't support any further spending.

[CosmicCowboy]

We need a concrete wall, not a fence. Patrol it with predator drones, dispatch National Guard/Border Patrol as needed.

The only problem with it is if you need to GET OUT, but hey, why would anyone wanna do that?

Have you ever been on the Texas border with Mexico (not at a major town) ? Get West of Del Rio and it's ing rugged wasteland for hundreds of miles. Sealing the border against low tech penetration with just a wall (walking, biking, etc.) and a "slap on the wrist" if you cross it is impossible.

[Blake]

With you, I didn't have to wonder. I knew.

[Wild Cobra]

I wonder how many people will support it when they find out how much it'll cost and just how worthless it'll be.

What?

The fence, or the hospital idea?

Both I think would be worth while.

[LnGrrrR]

WC, I dont' think your hospital idea would be cons utionally permissible. The law of the land applies everywhere the land is. The only exceptions I could think of might be something like a consulate, and that brings its own issues.

CC, you talk about an easier green card, but easier in which way? Less fees/paperwork? Less stringent background checking? Greater numbers allowed annually?

[CosmicCowboy]

WC, I dont' think your hospital idea would be cons utionally permissible. The law of the land applies everywhere the land is. The only exceptions I could think of might be something like a consulate, and that brings its own issues.

CC, you talk about an easier green card, but easier in which way? Less fees/paperwork? Less stringent background checking? Greater numbers allowed annually?

Mainly easier paperwork and greater numbers allowed. Make them check back in every 6 months and prove they have been working for an "on the books" employer that has withheld their taxes. If they have been working off the books then get the name of the employer and go get the tax/fine from him. If they don't check in and stay in the "on the books system" they can't ever get another green card. If they don't have a job they need to go back.

It's not perfect and you will have people beat it but it's a start.

[ChumpDumper]

So wheres Chumps plan?

I have already stated it, dumbass.

Or do you just prefer jumping around like a flea taking little bites out of everyone else instead of doing any substantial thinking on your own?

I have already stated it, dumbass.

Don't get pissy because I don't repeat it, dumbass. You did the same thing, dumbass.

[CosmicCowboy]

I have already stated it, dumbass.

I have already stated it, dumbass.

Don't get pissy because I don't repeat it, dumbass. You did the same thing, dumbass.

I remember a lot of others ideas but not yours. Must have been pretty weak. So weak, in fact, you are ashamed to even cut and paste them here since you apparently know where they allegedly are.

[LnGrrrR]

Mainly easier paperwork and greater numbers allowed. Make them check back in every 6 months and prove they have been working for an "on the books" employer that has withheld their taxes. If they have been working off the books then get the name of the employer and go get the tax/fine from him. If they don't check in and stay in the "on the books system" they can't ever get another green card. If they don't have a job they need to go back.

It's not perfect and you will have people beat it but it's a start.

Well, I can tell you from personal experience the paperwork certainly isn't "easy". It's relatively comprehensive. But the things that are in there are mostly for security. Would you be willing to accept less security screening/background checks done? Also, the other problem I see is that if you use less stringent screening, people might use something like a fake ID, then apply for a green card later using their real name. (Just throwing out possible concerns, not sure about their feasibility.)

As far as the greater numbers allowed, I'm ok with that, but I'm sure alot of people might not be. (People who think there's too many over here already.)

[TDMVPDPOY]

why not build a army base on the border? target practice on live bait

[Wild Cobra]

WC, I dont' think your hospital idea would be cons utionally permissible. The law of the land applies everywhere the land is. The only exceptions I could think of might be something like a consulate, and that brings its own issues.

CC, you talk about an easier green card, but easier in which way? Less fees/paperwork? Less stringent background checking? Greater numbers allowed annually?

I think the consulate idea would work, as long as we pay legal Mexican doctors and nurses to operate it.

An easier green card? You mean Amnesty lite?

As far as I know, when employers bring in workers from other countries, they have to in effect sponsor them and pay enough so they don't require social services. If this type of process is what you mean, then OK.

[Wild Cobra]

Mainly easier paperwork and greater numbers allowed. Make them check back in every 6 months and prove they have been working for an "on the books" employer that has withheld their taxes. If they have been working off the books then get the name of the employer and go get the tax/fine from him. If they don't check in and stay in the "on the books system" they can't ever get another green card. If they don't have a job they need to go back.

It's not perfect and you will have people beat it but it's a start.

Still, how do you maintain immigration quota's, or will this be a means for business to replace all US citizens with cheaper labor?

[Wild Cobra]

why not build a army base on the border? target practice on live bait

You mean like a barracks every 1/4 mile and 24/7 soldiers 100 yards apart?

Works for me.

[ElNono]

Mainly easier paperwork and greater numbers allowed. Make them check back in every 6 months and prove they have been working for an "on the books" employer that has withheld their taxes. If they have been working off the books then get the name of the employer and go get the tax/fine from him. If they don't check in and stay in the "on the books system" they can't ever get another green card. If they don't have a job they need to go back.

It's not perfect and you will have people beat it but it's a start.

That's not a green card though. That's a temporary worker type of visa.

H1B and the sort... a green card is a permanent resident and is not tied to work.

[ElNono]

As far as I know, when employers bring in workers from other countries, they have to in effect sponsor them and pay enough so they don't require social services. If this type of process is what you mean, then OK.

To hire a temporary immigrant you need to prove that you're going to pay him more than market value and also show that you tried to hire locally and were unable to do so (you need to show newspaper clips of your ads requesting help, etc). On top of that, you need to show that the person coming over is qualified. It's very rare you'll see a H1B holder without a college education.
The entire process can easily take a whole year.

Obviously, this is all the actual legal way to do things, which has nothing to do with illegal immigration.

[ElNono]

I think some of you need to inform yourself better of how the current system works. I see quite a bit of uninformed opinion here.

[Wild Cobra]

To hire a temporary immigrant you need to prove that you're going to pay him more than market value and also show that you tried to hire locally and were unable to do so (you need to show newspaper clips of your ads requesting help, etc). On top of that, you need to show that the person coming over is qualified. It's very rare you'll see a H1B holder without a college education.
The entire process can easily take a whole year.

Obviously, this is all the actual legal way to do things, which has nothing to do with illegal immigration.

Yes, I'm aware of that. When I worked at LSI, we had a few with Visas. However, jobs like these are jobs of skill that pay well. That's basically my point. No socialized hospitalization or food stamps required. If we are to allow low wage jobs to do the same, I say OK, as long as the employer takes up the slack, rather than the tax payer.

[Winehole23]

Reported the SA Express-News(3/12):

Because of the snaking course of the Rio Grande, which marks the international boundary with Mexico, the border fence was built on top of the levee, in some places a mile or more from the river, marooning thousands of acres of bucolic farmland, native habitat sanctuaries and private landowners on its southern flank.


Today, there are roughly 56 miles of border fence and wall in the Rio Grande Valley alone, none of which changed the underlying character of the land — what was farmland before remains farmland today.


Yet, critics argue, the fence not only disrupts communities and impedes residents’ ability to move freely the nearer they are to the fence, it has also created a “Cons ution-free” region where Border Patrol enforcement faces less oversight.


“What they’ve essentially created is a no-go zone,” said Joseph Nevins, associate professor of geography and chairman of earth science and geography at Vassar College, who studies the U.S.-Mexico border and is familiar with the Rio Grande Valley. “The very act of being in a particular place invites su ion.”


At least three times in recent years, witnesses reported that Border Patrol agents shot and killed people along the Texas-Mexico line without justification. One man in Matamoros was fatally shot from across the Rio Grande in Brownsville in July 2012.


Late last week, the Border Patrol directed its agents to limit their use of force in certain situations [details here] after a recent report by independent law enforcement experts criticized the Border Patrol for a policy that led to the killing of at least 19 people.


For its part, the agency says agents are authorized to search any vehicle between the fence and the river if they have “reasonable su ion” that unauthorized immigrants are aboard.

This is exactly the sort of dystopic scenario that made me oppose a border fence in the first place. As Grits wrote in 2008, "From the moment Congress first proposed putting a wall along the Rio Grande on Texas' southern border to reduce illegal immigration, I thought it was not just a bad idea but an insane one. As far as I can tell, when it's finished the United States will be the first nation state in the history of the planet to wall off a major river and leave the river on the other side!"


Border patrol officials insisted “it’s not a no man’s land” because “We are out there [and] … so are aliens and smugglers.” But to me, that's the definition of a "no man's land" - a place where the lack of legitimate public life breeds lawlessness, both by emboldening criminals and removing cons utional restraints from authorities. And because most illegal immigration happens at the checkpoints, the wall has done little to achieve the goal of reducing it. "More immigrants illegally enter the United States through the Border Patrol’s Rio Grande Valley Sector than any other," reported the McAllen Monitor last fall.


So, what exactly was the point of building that monstrosity again?

http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.co...c-no-mans.html

[Winehole23]

On February 4 in Dallas, Abbott announced his “Securing Texans” plan, a $300 million proposal to add 1,000 “boots on the ground” in a “continuous surge” or “permanent border shield” along the Texas-Mexico border.

“We must do more to protect our border going beyond sporadic surges,” the Texas Tribune reported Abbott as saying. “As governor, I will almost double the spending for DPS border security.”


At the announcement, Abbott cited specific examples of public corruption, with every example occurring on the border—in Cameron, Hidalgo and Starr counties.


He then added the controversial remark: “This creeping corruption resembles third world country practices that erode the social fabric of our communities and destroy Texans’ trust and confidence in government.”


As Abbott addressed El Pasoans this week, he added, “Our porous border is allowing ruthless cartels and violent transnational gangs to operate more freely within the state of Texas.”


“Gangs like the Barrio Azteca, the Texas Syndicate, Tango Blast and countless others are infiltrating schools across the state,” he continued.


It sounds terrifying. It’s meant to sound terrifying. It’s election season.


However, the facts tell a different story.


1. Barrio Azteca, Mexican Mafia and Tango Blast are prison gangs born and bred in Texas, not Mexico.



While Barrio Azteca and other prison gangs in the state are framed as “Mexican” or “border” gangs, the fact is that many of these criminal gangs are not a product of Mexico, they’re a product of Texas—more specifically, they’re a product of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice (TDCJ).


Barrio Azteca was formed in 1986 as a prison gang in the Coffield Unit of TDCJ. The Coffield Unit is located in Anderson County, about 100 miles southeast of Dallas.


The gang was formed by five El Paso inmates, living in the unit, to protect themselves from established Texas prison gangs, including the Mexikanemi and the Texas Syndicate.


The Mexikanemi, also known as the Texas Mexican Mafia, was founded in the Texas prison system in the early 1980s and the Texas Syndicate was founded in Folsom Prison in California during the early 1970s.
Tango Blast, another gang cited by Abbott, emerged in the late 1990s in prisons in Houston, Austin, Dallas and Fort Worth.


Of these prison gangs, none were founded on the border. Nevertheless, since the 1980s, Barrio Azteca has evolved into a violent transnational criminal organization.


“In the 2000s, the (Barrio Azteca) formed an alliance in Mexico with ‘La Linea,’ which is part of the Juarez Drug Cartel (also known as the Vincente Carrillo Fuentes Drug Cartel or ‘VCF’),” according to a June 2012 DOJ statement. “The purpose of the (Barrio Azteca)-La Linea alliance was to battle the Chapo Guzman Cartel and its allies for control of the drug trafficking routes through Juarez and Chihuahua.”


At the time, Barrio Azteca operated by purchasing drugs at a discount from their Mexican supplier and then distributing the drugs to street dealers. Those dealers were then required to pay “taxes” to Barrio Azteca collectors.


“When (the “tax”) is collected by the (Barrio Azteca), members and leaders deposit the money into the commissary accounts of incarcerated (Barrio Azteca) leaders, often using fake names or female associates to send the money by wire transfer,” continues the DOJ statement. The incarcerated gang leaders then “receive laundered funds and disperse it within the Texas State prison system to further the criminal goals of the enterprise.”


Unfortunately, Barrio Azteca isn’t the only gang operating across borders from within our prison system. According to a 2008 analysis by Austin-based intelligence firm Stratfor, “there are at least nine well-established prison gangs with connections to Mexican drug cartels” within the United States.


In addition, “white supremacists groups, mixed-race motorcycle gangs and African-American street gangs also have formed extensive alliances with Mexican cartels,” the Stratfor analysis says.


So, the reality is clearly more complex than the campaign rhetoric. If there is “spillover violence,” it flows not only south to north, it flows north to south, from Texas to the border and into Mexico.

http://newspapertree.com/articles/20...e-border-wrong

[Winehole23]

As much as sex trafficking is discussed in reference to the border, it rarely makes the headlines in El Paso.


Well, that changed in dramatic fashion earlier this year when an El Paso County juvenile probation officer and former UTEP football player, Timothy McCullouch Jr., was charged in federal court with sex trafficking and sex trafficking of a minor.
Others charged in the scheme were Deion “Memphis” Lockhart; Brandon Shapiro, aka “Chicago” and “B’radd;” Tai Von “Trigg” Lynch; Richard “Crenshaw” Gray; and Emmanual “E Jay” Lockhart.


“Court records allege that the defendants have been involved in the forced pros ution of juveniles and adults by the Folk Nation/Gangster Disciples street gang between May 2012 and March 2013,” according to January press release from the FBI.


“The defendants used a combination of force, fraud, and coercion to compel their victims to engage in sexual activities for money in El Paso; Killeen, Texas; Albuquerque, New Mexico; Las Vegas, Nevada; and in Colorado,” the release continues.


Furthermore, the El Paso Times reported last month, “Authorities said the case is linked to an incident in March in which El Paso police arrested two suspected pimps after they allegedly beat a woman at the Super 8 Motel on Gateway East near Cielo Vista Mall.”
In that incident, Folk Nation/Gangster Disciples members Kiry Hakeem Nalls and Grant Rutledge were indicted in federal court on forced pros ution charges.


As it turns out, McCullouch is not a Mexican citizen, nor is he from the border.


He’s a US citizen originally from Long Beach, California.


As for the Gangster Disciples, the street gang emerged in Chicago in the late 1960s; and Folk Nation is an alliance of street gangs also from the Chicago area.
Is the answer a $300 million “continuous surge” along the Texas-Oklahoma border? Would that protect our children and make El Paso safer?

same