I know the conservatives will just dismiss it, but

[MannyIsGod]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/28/bu...?_r=2&emc=eta1

If you're going to dismiss it then tell me which parts of the study you disagree with.

[Ignignokt]

what's wrong with the study is that it takes GDP growth as a good overall indicator of the economy.

The reason the GDP was higher because the formula cons utes G+I+C= GDP. The G as opposed to investments, and consumption is government. Ofcourse the printing of money and the pumping of credit would inflate the wealth of the Govt's money chest, but at the detriment to the dollar. Tjhe Fed is contributing to the devaluation of the dollar by printing more of it based on no wealth. You must have true wealth to back your currency, or else you become Zimbabwe with trillion dollar notes that buy you a pound of fish. And since this is not actual wealth but just printed currency and credit, it means nothing.

"It's like saying, I'm broke, but i'm financially set because I have a brand new Credit Card!!""

So in essence, more debt was created, more loans were distributed and the country did not save which now has both the citizens and the govt paying large interest for the coming generations.

This is lunacy, and anyone who thinks that this system is sane doesn't it do it by rational means, but because of their progressive ideology.

[angrydude]

what's wrong with the study is that it takes GDP growth as a good overall indicator of the economy.

The reason the GDP was higher because the formula cons utes G+I+C= GDP. The G as opposed to investments, and consumption is government. Ofcourse the printing of money and the pumping of credit would inflate the wealth of the Govt's money chest, but at the detriment to the dollar. Tjhe Fed is contributing to the devaluation of the dollar by printing more of it based on no wealth. You must have true wealth to back your currency, or else you become Zimbabwe with trillion dollar notes that buy you a pound of fish. And since this is not actual wealth but just printed currency and credit, it means nothing.

"It's like saying, I'm broke, but i'm financially set because I have a brand new Credit Card!!""

So in essence, more debt was created, more loans were distributed and the country did not save which now has both the citizens and the govt paying large interest for the coming generations.

This is lunacy, and anyone who thinks that this system is sane doesn't it do it by rational means, but because of their progressive ideology.

+1

The economy needs to move resources out of things it doesn't need more of (houses) and into things it does (exports). Too bad the economy is so distorted with tax incentives and low interest rates that that will never happen.

tWall Street would have gone to . But they deserved to. Oh well, lets not have/allow the free market to work then blame the free market.



The way we're carrying on the next depression is just going to be worse.

[Ignignokt]

Ateast in the last depression we had a powerful manufacturing base. We have none right now.

[DMX7]

Ateast in the last depression we had a powerful manufacturing base. We have none right now.

We don't have "none". We have a weak manufacturing base, and we'd have an even weaker one if Republicans had stopped the auto bailout.

[Winehole23]

For one thing, Mr. Blinder and Mr. Zandi find that the financial stabilization measures — the Troubled Asset Relief Program, as the bailout is known, along with the bank stress tests and the Fed’s actions — have had a relatively greater impact than the stimulus program.

This stood out to me. If we did in fact avoid a debt-deflation event, then it stands to reason we avoided a severe contraction of the economy.

On the whole this wino is unsure it was prudent to have done so from the vantage of the long run. Short term, sure, we avoid the pain and the political setbacks.. But will we really be better off to face them later on? All we did was kick the can down the road and bake in a structural deficit.

[Winehole23]

In Fall of 2008 our political representatives seemed afraid that the global system of payment, being insolvent, might fail.

[Winehole23]

We avoided that possibility, but for that time only, and at a very great cost.

[boutons_deux]

"because of their progressive ideology."

, nearly all the deficit now and next 10 years is due to unpaid-for Repug wars, unpaid-for Repug taxcuts, and reduced tax incomes due to the Repug/conservative deregulated/unpoliced Banksters' Great Depression. Without those, the deficit is almost zero. The mind-blowing damage the Repugs did in 2001-2008 will continue for many years, while the Repugs blame it all on Magic Negro and try to maximize and extend Americans' gain for Repug political advantage.



http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036

As Krugman and few others predicted, and many more are now climbing on that bandwagon, the stimulus was too small. $1T or $2T more for a $13T economy would have probably just about wiped out the Depression. By getting people back to work, paying taxes, and staying in their homes, such a stimulus would have mostly paid for itself, unlike the Repug lie that tax cuts pay for themselves.

Now with the Repugs scare-mongering about deficits, we are looking at many years of deflation, 9%+ unemployment, and infrastructure/operating pain at all govt levels. Cutting federal spending now, as the Repug squeal about (but never list the federal spending to be cut), is exactly the wrong, de-stimulating tactic, not that Repugs ever worry about facts or being disastrously wrong on everything.

[Winehole23]

^^^

[Winehole23]

Ateast in the last depression we had a powerful manufacturing base. We have none right now.

[Winehole23]

As Krugman and few others predicted, and many more are now climbing on that bandwagon, the stimulus was too small.

It's way too late for a bandwagon, b_d. The contest is already over. The stimulus failed. You failed to make your point at he politically relevant time. It was being made then. It is gone now.

You just brought flowers to its grave.

[boutons_deux]

^^^

Why don't you post that broken record image when the Repugs/bubbas/conservatives keep repeating their lies?

GFY

[boutons_deux]

"The stimulus failed"

The point of the article was that the stimulus succeeded so well where even a hyper-conservative Hoover guy was amazed at its effects. Keynes was right, counter-cyclical govt spending is an important tool. Monetarist Friedman has been proven almost completely wrong.

It failed because the Repugs made a stimulus appropriately sized to the Depression politically impossible. As Repug thought-dictator/leader Limbaugh said, the Repugs hope and want MN to fail.

[Winehole23]

That's no excuse for being a broken record.

[Winehole23]

Maybe you started to emulate what you hate against your own honest will and even behind your very own back.

[Winehole23]

"The stimulus failed"

The point of the article was that the stimulus succeeded so well where even a hyper-conservative Hoover guy was amazed at its effects. Keynes was right, counter-cyclical govt spending is an important tool. Monetarist Friedman has been proven almost completely wrong.

Yet no one seems to have noticed yet, except for a few disgruntled libs. Why is that?

It failed because the Repugs made a stimulus appropriately sized to the Depression politically impossible..

Dude, your bull blows.

Obama either didn't aim high enough to start with, or else he aimed appropriately low. Stimulus 1.0 had to come in under $1T. Barring yet another catastrophic financial panic, it is doubtful the experiment will be repeated anytime soon. Obama and the US Congress half-assed the stimulus. According to even their supporters.

[boutons_deux]

That's no excuse for being a broken record.

no excuse.

Repeating lies works for Fox and Repugs.

Repeating truths is a legit response. now GFY

[Winehole23]

I keep my own schedule, thank you.

[Winehole23]

Sounds like you like being a broken record just fine.

[johnsmith]

LOL at boutons looking like an idiot and being so butt hurt when Winehole s with him.

[boutons_deux]

Boutons ain't never butt hurt, Boutons don't mess with his own or others butts. He leaves that to phobic closted red-staters.

JS, GFY.

Winehole can't handle the truth, and rather believes the Repug lying broken record that the stimulus has failed.

[CosmicCowboy]

^^^

[TeyshaBlue]

Crouton's would've called that a slap if he'd posted that pic.

[TeyshaBlue]

LOL @ Manny's failed OP.