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I think Dirk since he led a team to the Finals and been an MVP.
Pau
Dirk
I hate both these guys...but If I gotta choose one...It would be Dirk. When the ball is in Dirk's hands...he's more dangerous than Pau is with the ball.
I think Dirk since he led a team to the Finals and been an MVP.
There's only one ball though and 10 players on the court. Which is why the saying goes: "defense/rebounding wins championships."
It also depends whether the player in question is in the post or not. Gasol's hook shot and threat to pass from that position is much more dangerous than Dirk chucking up a fall-away three.
Ball handling? My good man have you seen Pau run the break, like a 7'0 Magic dashing and dishing down the court? Its just like....showtime.
Gasol is the french one ? I'd love that tbh
Are we talking about their carreer or just last season ?
DAF I see what you did here even but I think mavkrew won't bite the bait.
Advantages to Gasol playing close to the basket as opposed to Dirk playing 20 feet away:
- better position to offensive rebound or tip loose balls out to teammates
- gets more 2nd chance points off tip-in opportunities
- can see the floor better with his back to the basket for better passing
- sucks defense into the paint giving more open shots to guards outside
- misses don't result in long rebounds giving other team more fastbreak opportunities
- defense being sucked in toward him allows other players to get into the paint and offensive rebound better (Odom lives off this)
Dirk is a better scorer than Pau is, no doubt, but you factor in the advantages of playing closer to the rim and the disadvantage in scoring ability is mitigated a bit.
Since when is Gasol some defensive demon?
Bynum, Odom, Artest and Bryant are all above average rebounders at their respective positions, they can more than make up for the difference.
this poll should have been a public poll tbh
Dirk is far more of an offensive threat, regardless of the touches said Pau would receive as the #1 option. Also, Pau the player now is a lot better than the one with the Grizz, however Dirk is far more polished.
Overall, I still give the nod to Dirk, even with his lacklustre rebounding and blocked shots for a 7 footer.
Nowitzki is a better all around player, because he's one of those players who is basically unguardable. But he lacks a certain...oomph that prevents him from being an elite.
One only has to look at the difference between Gasol on the Grizzlies and Gasol on the Lakers to know that Gasol isn't that great a player - he has just had the luck of playing with Kobe Bryant for the past two seasons. But at least Dirk has won a few playoff rounds. When did Gasol on the Grizzlies ever do that?
Since he punked Duncan in the 2008 WCF without consistent double teams.
Odom has no post presence to speak of, neither does Ron. The Lakers team offense would become more inefficient with another jumpshooter thrown into the mix. What is Dirk doing without the ball when Kobe is creating?
The Lakers have no need for a 7ft shooting guard when they have a better one that actually plays both side of the ball.
Now, I haven't even begun to discuss how terrible Dirk would be in the triangle trying to play center. Having a guy able to switch to the 5 from the 4 at will and even increase his production at times is an invaluable feature to possess when you're building a proper basketball dynasty. And it's something Dirk could never replace.
What I don't get is why it always comes down to how many championships or medals when comparing two players abilities.
Obviously results are important but ppl just keep bringing 2006 finals as the definitive moment of Dirk's career. The first time Pau was in a final he wasn't that great either except he had the luck and a good team to make it there again and prove he could perform better given the chance. Not to mention international achievements, which are important, but just take a look at how many Spanish players are in the NBA and how many Germans and we'll leave it at that.
In any case I think Pau has improved enough in the past seasons, having Phill Jackson calling him soft over and over sure helped, so that this is actually a worthy debate.
I still put Dirk ahead of Pau. Obviously the fact that he plays mostly from mid range has an impact on some of the important stats usually used to compare big men like rebounding and fg % but for me Dirk is fundamentally a better basketball player.
Anyway the real intent of this thread was not to actually discuss these players abilities so I won’t go off topic any more.
If we're talking present day, I'm with Iron Mexican. Gasol is the better player, easily.
No homer.
He scores more efficiently (forget PPS, I prefer TS% which I think does a better job of crediting Dirk for his 3-pt shooting... Pau shot .593 last season, Dirk .578), gets a ton more rebounds, more assists, and blocks, and I believe he's a better defender. The two things that Dirk has readily observable advantages in are 3-pt shooting and TOs.
Where Pau takes some flak is in that he plays at a superstar level of efficiency but not with a superstar level of assertiveness offensively. He's clearly comfortable in more a complementary, team-oriented role.
I really don't see the problem in that. In fact, he's about as perfect a fit as you'll find for Kobe's game, personality, and assertiveness. These guys work together incredibly well.
I do give Dirk credit for being the #1 option on his team but frankly I think the idea of being a #1 option is overrated. Too many basketball fans getting sucked into superstar mentality basketball when it is still clearly teams who win championships.
It's too bad the mid-2000s Pistons didn't win a few more rings because I think it would've driven the point home that one or two superstars is not what makes for championships... it is great teams. Teams do need leaders but this idea that somehow great individuals trump great teams is ridiculous.
Until Dirk plays second fiddle to another superstar, no one can say for sure who would make the best second option.
But if we're comparing them as first options (Memphis Pau vs Dirk), Dirk wins hands down.
Since he was throwing Pierce's from the rim to wrap up the NBA finals, while Tony Parkers waltzing to the rim and Dino McDyess is spotting up for one wide open J after another in the first round.
I know, that's why I said "maybe ball handling".Ball handling? My good man have you seen Pau run the break, like a 7'0 Magic dashing and dishing down the court? Its just like....showtime.
Great point. I think everyones acts if the Lakers choked in 2004 ...
The Pistons sensed our weaknesses both on the court and off and beat us in to submission ...
To not give the pistons full credit for how they picked us apart...is ignorant.
They played great team defense, rotating to 3 pt shooters and to the open man almost WITHOUT fail.
On offense the ball moved quick and they worked the mismatches ...
The 2004 Pistons are one of my FAVORITE le teams that don't have the Lakers attached and I even enjoyed them more than the Lakers 2002 team that bickered like some teenage girls ...
The "number one" argument is pointless tbh, when Gasol was a number one guy he never had the talent around him that Dirk had, and Pau himself wasn't the same player that he is right now.
ok, if I had to, I would definately take Gasol over Dirk. But if Gasol played back in the day with Kareem, Olajuwan, Ewing, Robinson, Shaq...he would have gotten destroyed.
LOL at the argument that Gasol has improved as a player since being on the Lakers. As if, you know, playing with Kobe ing Bryant isn't the reason why he's magically "improved."
Don't think for a minute if Dirk didn't have Kobe playing with him in that Finals match up against the Heat, they wouldn't have won the series. Easily.
It's amazing how much easier a big man's game gets when he has a dominant, healthy SG to score at will.
This is a really good topic imho. Dirk is a phenomenal player, and a hall of famer. He's lethal with the ball, a really great scorer. If we're comparing careers then you have to pick Dirk over Gasol. But personally, if you ask me who I'd take today I'd go with Pau. I feel Pau is the best big man in the league. I really like what he did with his game. Back in Memphis Pau used to get abused by pretty much everyone. When he got to L.A he really changed his game.
He's not physically intimidating, but there is no doubt he's much stronger than he was in Memphis. He's a beast in the low post, he has a countermove for almost every way the defender plays him. Very Duncan-esque. The guy can score in the paint, can defend, is a great rebounder, and can pass fairly well. Dirk is a great player but I think Pau is the better player now.
Lol @ Gasol punking Duncan in the 2008 WCF.
Duncan destroyed Gasol in scoring, blocks, and rebounds in that series, including a triple double in the closeout game. This was Duncan slightly past his prime as well. You could say the Lakers as a whole punked the Spurs, or that Kobe was unstoppable.
Although I will say right now that Gasol is better than Duncan, and is slightly worse than Dirk.
What is this "Dirk is a better scorer" thing that I keep seeing repeated?
They look pretty even to me. Even if you want to give credit to Dirk for greater volume, which is fair, Pau is more efficient.
It's not just about how many points you put up... how did you get them?
Besides, scoring is overrated. Scoring is only part of offense... TOs, assists, ORBs are all good indicators of what a player's doing on that end of the floor that isn't shown by PPG or shooting percentages.
Dirk gets kudos for not giving away the ball as often on TOs but then you have to credit Pau for lengthening more possessions with ORBs, too. And Pau gets more assists.
I'd call it a draw when it comes to offense.
He is playing the best basketball of his career. I'm thinking being healthy and being at what is usually a pro player's age peak is most of that. I give credit to Kobe, Phil, good players, and a great organization around him and supporting him as well. Pau's also a smart player and it seems he's learned his lessons over the years and I think deepens his game season by season.
Are you telling me that Gasol couldn't have improved as he entered his "NBA prime"?..have you never heard of that?
Kobe's impact on Gasol is extremely overrated..of course he helps, but look at Gasol's dominance during the stretch in which Kobe was injured..small sample size, but it also shows that Pau is still capable of doing it on a consistent basis, and it shows that he has obviously improved in LA..
He's in an ideal system for him where they play to his strengths, particularly his post scoring and passing..he's clearly gotten stronger, thus improving his D and leverage in the post..he has clearly gotten tougher, which can't be argued..I'm sure Kobe and the rest of the Lakers had a part in helping Pau get tougher, but how does that change anything?..
I don't understand how people bring up Memphis as an example..Gasol wasn't in his prime, he was in a system that didn't compliment his strengths, and he didn't have anybody on the team that was even a near All-Star caliber player..
As for Dirk vs. Pau, Nowitzki obviously has 1 main advantage, his scoring, volume scoring in particular..he's obviously a better overall scorer, and he's much, much more likely to explode for a high scoring game than Pau is..if my team needs a #1 scorer, I would go with Nowitzki without any doubt..
As surprising as it is, while Pau obviously has the more versatile post-up game, Dirk was actually slightly more effective in the post this season..Dirk shot 50% from post-up situations, while Pau shot 48%..Dirk drew a foul on 12% of the plays, while Pau drew a foul on 11%..Dirk turned it over less..Pau had more attempts in the post, so that would even it out by a little, but not enough to make a big difference..
Dirk is a pretty underrated post player..he does a lot of damage in the mid-post, but it's still effective, even if it isn't what you would see in a traditional post-up player or as close to the basket as you would expect..
The only scoring situation where Gasol had a clear advantage in efficiency was in p&r and transition situations..Gasol is one of the best big men in the NBA at running the fast break, even though that isn't a valuable trait for a big man IMO..
It's fair to say that Dirk is a decent enough margin in the scoring advantage IMO..
Pau's main advantages obviously come in passing, where he's probably the best passing big man in the NBA..Dirk is an average/slightly above average passer, so it's not comparable..Gasol's passing is a huge part in what the Lakers do, and he showed it off during the games where Kobe sat out..
Gasol is also the better rebounder..
Defensively, there's a significant difference between the two..the only advantage Dirk had this season was that he was slightly better at defending the pick and roll..
So even if it's a cop-out, I would go with the common answer that I would take Nowitzki if I needed a #1 scoring option, but Gasol anywhere else..
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