Gasol/Nowitzki comparison

[milkshakeballa]

He was there for games one and two of the Finals and he disappeared in Boston. It almost cost LA the le because he's inconsistent. He can be deadly, but he shifts between gears one and five too quickly. That makes Dirk a better player.

Games 1-7 of the 2010 NBA Finals for Pau Gasol:

Pts/Reb/Asts/Blocks
23/14/3/3
25/8/3/6
13/10/4/2
21/6/3/2
12/12
17/13/9/3
19/18/4/2

Come on. Those are ridiculous numbers against a Celtic defense in the finals. ANYONES EFFICIENY AND NUMBERS will take a hit going up against Boston's D for 7 games PERIOD. And he still put up those numbers and you are going to criticise HIM for almost costing the Lakers a le?!?!? LOL

And please criticize Pau as you wish...but to say he is inconsistent?

The guy was BY FAR AND AWAY the most consistent Laker last year. Probably one of the most consistent players in the entire NBA. LOL

IMO - Pau is the better player ATM and IMO Pau is the best 2way big in the league.

Career - They aren't over. Pau could very well retire with 4-5 rings averaging 20/10 during the runs.

People who compare Pau as 1 to Dirk as 1 realize who each team is playing with as well.

I still think Dirk is a slightly better #1 option. But put Pau on those Dallas teams and they are VERY VERY good teams too.


And where is this Pau became a different player coming to LA talk coming from?!?!?!


The guy was a FREAKIGN BEAST in Memphis. He didn't have much to play for there. Like Harlem said it wasn't a great system for him. But the guy was still a f'in beast. Did he toughen up in LA? Did Kobe make him a better player? Of course...but not much. The guy is now just getting the respect he has always deserved.

He needed the big stage..

[milkshakeballa]

And you cannot do that in a vacuum. He has to perform every night for the Mavericks. Kobe is the player like that on the Lakers. When Pau was that player on the Grizzlies he was inconsistent and didn't win anything. Winning is a part of my evaluation of players. How a player gets stats and when is as important as how productive they are.

Put Dirk on those Memphis teams and he wouldn't even be heard from...

[chubster]

Assists aren't the only way to make life easier for your teammates.

Please elaborate more. I'd love to hear how exactly Tim Duncan make the game easier for Parker and Ginobili.

Kobe does make life easier for Gasol some times, he isn't the reason why Pau is a better player now than earlier in his career though.

How do you know Gasol is a better player now?

[DAF86]

Please elaborate more. I'd love to hear how exactly Tim Duncan make the game easier for Parker and Ginobili.

Defense, rebounds, beign a constant focus of attention, etc.

How do you know Gasol is a better player now?

From the magic of sight.

[milkshakeballa]

Please elaborate more. I'd love to hear how exactly Tim Duncan make the game easier for Parker and Ginobili.

Because he is Tim ing Duncan

[EIC]

Also, it kinda seems like you're attempting to bait Mavfan, especially with that last line. If you're not serious, I have to remind you that Dirk is a #1 option surrounded by decent players. Kidd is old, Butler disappears in the playoffs, JET is old and streaky, Marion is old and can't shoot, etc. They will be better with another season under their belt, but if you combined the Lakers and Mavs 6 best players, it would be: Kobe, Dirk, Gasol, Bynum, Odom, and Artest. Obviously Dirk's shooting percentage will be slightly lower when he shoots way more shots, especially tough fadeaways, and he doesn't have the luxury of having a great defensive team and the second best player in the game taking pressure off of him.

Nowitzki is a superior player to Gasol. I like Pau but it's sickening how before he played with LA he was a no one, just a decent player, without A SINGLE playoff victory. Now that he has Kobe and one of the most talented teams assembled in the last decade, he's an MVP caliber player. Riiiiight.

This is spot on.

/thread

[chubster]

Defense, rebounds, beign a constant focus of attention, etc.

So Duncan being the constant focus of attention helps Manu and Parker out...

From the magic of sight.

Yet, your sight fails to recognize who the constant focus of attention on the Lakers is.

[DAF86]

So Duncan being the constant focus of attention helps Manu and Parker out...

Yet, your sight fails to recognize who the constant focus of attention on the Lakers is.

You fail to recognize that it's possible for players of the same team to make life easier for each other.

[TinTin]

Does Tim Duncan make the game easier for Parker and Ginobili?

Does Artest make the game easier for Kobe?

[EIC]

The "number one" argument is pointless tbh, when Gasol was a number one guy he never had the talent around him that Dirk had,

Yeah, but Pau didn't have anywhere near the success that Dirk had. I mean, not by a mile. Dirk may have had a better supporting cast, but the Mavericks repeatedly had one of (if not the) best records in the NBA, and would be run deep in the playoffs. Meanwhile, in Memphis, Pau was sucking some serious , barely clawing his way into the playoffs, only to be tossed aside like a used rubber. The disparity in their supporting casts cannot, by itself, explain the disparity in their respective success as the team's #1.

and Pau himself wasn't the same player that he is right now.

Again, not fair. Dirk is now past his prime while Pau is just hitting his stride. Not to mention that being the #1 wears a man down faster than being the #2. It's like dog years: Every season for a #2 is like two seasons for a #1.

I just don't get how people who wouldn't even recognize Pau's name if he weren't on the Lakers can claim that he is better than a man who was an MVP.

[chubster]

You fail to recognize that it's possible for players of the same team to make life easier for each other.

No, Kobe Bryant isn't the reason Gasol improved.

What now?

[chubster]

Does Artest make the game easier for Kobe?

The same way Bruce Bowen was for Duncan.

[TinTin]

The same way Bruce Bowen was for Duncan.

So why isn't artest a franchise player?

[JamStone]

You could definitely make a case, although in this case Manu does beat Maggette in a very important category and by a big margin.

Come again? You really suggesting that one "could definitely make a case" that Corey Maggette is a better player than Manu Ginobili? Are you serious? There isn't a person alive who follows the NBA who would say there's an argument that Maggette is a better player than Ginobili. Your thread and its logic fails.

And Maggette has Ginobili beat in a very important category and by a big margine... FG%. Oh, and also has him beat in your precious "points per FG attempt" advanced stat.

??? Points per FG attempt is one of the most important "advanced stats", and do you really think that Dirk is a "much, much better scorer"? Give the two the same amount of shots and I don't think the PPG difference would be significant, in fact is probable that Gasol would average more points than Dirk.

Ummm let's go back to my Corey Maggette example.

Corey Maggette has a better CAREER "points per FG attempt" than Michael Jordan. Yes, career. Yes, Michael Jordan. If Corey Maggette is better in an offensive/scoring stat than Michael Jordan, it pretty much means that stat is horse , not "one of the most important advanced stats."


Given the same amount of shots, the current Pau Gasol and the current Dirk Nowitkzi would probably score about the same. Put in the same situation of franchise player who is asked to score, Dirk is more capable of scoring more because of jumpshooting ability. It gives him an edge to score against double teams. Gasol is a better low post scorer but he has never really shown himself to be a prolific scorer, even in Memphis when he was the franchise player. He was a 18-20 ppg scorer as a franchise player, while Dirk has proven he could consistently put up 24-26 ppg as a franchise player. That's like the difference between Carmelo Anthony and Rip Hamilton. Both can score, but there's no denying who the better scorer is.

Now even in this thread, based on last season, I think Pau Gasol has become the better all around player. But Pau Gasol has never been the superstar Dirk Nowitzki has been in this league. Up until last year, it wasn't even a contest. Based on last season, I think Gasol has improved in areas of his game, namely rebounding and defense, that I think he's the more complete player. But Pau has never been and will never be the superstar Dirk has been in this league.

[chubster]

So why isn't artest a franchise player?

The same reason Bruce Bowen was not.

[TinTin]

So how come Duncan is the franchise player, not Manu or TP?

Because he's the better player of the three.

Yet Parker and Ginobili had made the game easier for Tim at times?
Shouldn't they share the franchise players le together?

No, let me take it a step further. How does Tim Duncan with his low assists numbers make the game easier for Parker and Ginobili?

So why isn't artest a franchise player?

The same reason Bruce Bowen was not.

Don't know if you are a troll or not

[DAF86]

Yeah, but didn't have anywhere near the success that Dirk had. I mean, not by a mile. Dirk may have had a better supporting cast, but the Mavericks repeatedly had one of (if not the) best records in the NBA, and would be run deep in the playoffs. Meanwhile, in Memphis, Pau was sucking some serious , barely clawing his way into the playoffs, only to be tossed aside like a used rubber. The disparity in their supporting casts cannot, by itself, explain the disparity in their respective success as the team's #1.

Gasol lead Memphis to their only playoffs trips with I don't remember who as the second best player, That's a feat. Dirk has constantly had one of the most stacked teams, in one of the most popular NBA teams, with an owner ready to do whatever it takes to have a championship level team every year.

Again, not fair. Dirk is now past his prime while Pau is just hitting his stride. Not to mention that being the #1 wears a man down faster than being the #2. It's like dog years: Every season for a #2 is like two seasons for a #1.

I just don't get how people who wouldn't even recognize Pau's name if he weren't on the Lakers can claim that he is better than a man who was an MVP.

In what do you base your opinion that Dirk is past his prime? His numbers look as good as ever.

Either way, we're just arguing who the better player is right now, not past accomplishments.

[DAF86]

Don't know if you are a troll or not

He's a troll.

[chubster]

Don't know if you are a troll or not

A devil's advocate.

I find reverse logic works the best against people with none.

[chubster]

He's a troll.

You fail to recognize that it's possible for players of the same team to make life easier for each other.

No, Kobe Bryant isn't the reason Gasol improved.

2nd time.

What now?

[DAF86]

I find reverse logic works the best against people with none.

You proved that to be wrong on this thread, tbh.

[chubster]

You proved that to be wrong on this thread, tbh.

Hey, I've tried my best. Try seeking professional help.

You fail to recognize that it's possible for players of the same team to make life easier for each other.

No, Kobe Bryant isn't the reason Gasol improved.

3rd time.

What now?

[IronMexican]

Unforced error, tbh.

hwhwhwhat does that even mean?

[darkwitzki]

Dirk is the reason the Mavs won 50 games for 10 straight seasons. Dirk rapes Gasol.

[DAF86]

Hey, I've tried my best. Try seeking professional help.

3rd time.

What now?

I'm not sure of you're a troll or not so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Making life easier for others (at times) does not mean: Making the other player improve, Gasol makes life easier for Kobe too but Kobe hasn't improved as a player since Gasol is in the Lakers. Shaq made life easier for Kobe (probaby more than any other Bryant teammate in history) in the early 00's but most would agree that Kobe in '06, '07 was a better player than in 2000.