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Gasol hands down. no doubt about it.
Pau
Dirk
Not a big tennis fan I see.
Gasol hands down. no doubt about it.
My point there was that Manu (unlike Dirk with Gasol) does beat Maggette at least in a category.
And I know for a fact that there're people that thinks that Maggette is a better player than Manu right now.
You can agree with it or not but pts per FGA is one of the main "advanced stats", I find that stat to be useful 'cause it shows a players' efficiency, which is very important imho. However is not the only stat, I didn't just post that Gasol beats Dirk in pts per FGA, I also showed that he beats him in rebounds, assist, blocks, FG% and pretty much in every important stat for a bigman.Ummm let's go back to my Corey Maggette example.
Corey Maggette has a better CAREER "points per FG attempt" than Michael Jordan. Yes, career. Yes, Michael Jordan. If Corey Maggette is better in an offensive/scoring stat than Michael Jordan, it pretty much means that stat is horse , not "one of the most important advanced stats."
We agree then, Gasol is the better of the two right now.Given the same amount of shots, the current Pau Gasol and the current Dirk Nowitkzi would probably score about the same. Put in the same situation of franchise player who is asked to score, Dirk is more capable of scoring more because of jumpshooting ability. It gives him an edge to score against double teams. Gasol is a better low post scorer but he has never really shown himself to be a prolific scorer, even in Memphis when he was the franchise player. He was a 18-20 ppg scorer as a franchise player, while Dirk has proven he could consistently put up 24-26 ppg as a franchise player. That's like the difference between Carmelo Anthony and Rip Hamilton. Both can score, but there's no denying who the better scorer is.
Now even in this thread, based on last season, I think Pau Gasol has become the better all around player. But Pau Gasol has never been the superstar Dirk Nowitzki has been in this league. Up until last year, it wasn't even a contest. Based on last season, I think Gasol has improved in areas of his game, namely rebounding and defense, that I think he's the more complete player. But Pau has never been and will never be the superstar Dirk has been in this league.
But you started off the post asking who is the better player and now it is who is better right now
I made this thread yesterday, not in 2006.
Jerry Stackhouse scored more points than Kobe Bryant in the 2000-01 Regular Season. Does that mean that Kobe was a worse scorer than Stackhouse for those 82 games? Stackhouse beat him in a category. It's got to at least be a debate, according to your logic.
It's slanted towards specialist three-point shooters. If a shooter takes 5 field goals in a game and gets 6 points off the two he makes, he's just beat the mid-range shooter who makes 4 off his 4, despite the fact that they are shooting only one less field goal a game.
So then these sentences are equal?
Who is the better player?
Who is the better player now?
Everyone has been talking in terms of prime here not current except in Gasol's case where he definitely seems to be in his prime
Dirk is clearly the more talented of the two, but to say who is "better" is kind of tricky. Dirk is a number 1 option, while Pau is a number 2 guy. As a number one option Gasol couldn't accomplish anything near what Dirk has. I guess you have to ask if Pau is a better number 2 than Dirk is a number 1, and the answer to that is yes.
WTF does this even mean?
Are you arguing semantics? I'm not going to discuss the difference between "making life easier" and "improve as a player" because they mean exactly the same thing in basketball context.
No it doesn't, but you can bealive whatever you want, tbh.
Pau gasol is one of my fav. players and a outstanding player at that. But Dirk is clearly better player,Dirk doesn't have a Kobe to play off of. Dirk is a #1 franchise player,sadly I don't think Pau is.
And this thread is clearly a attempt to get Mavs fans out of their little boycott
Posting last season's stats in the OP should have been a heads up, tbh.
Besides Dirk seems to be on his prime too, 25 ppg is right up there among the best years of his career.
Everyone else has argued for overall so I don't know what time frame your mind is checked in.
I agree, points per game is the only thing needed to judge whether a player is in his prime or not
August 1st to 31st.
All his other stats look the same to his career averages, tbh.I agree, points per game is the only thing needed to judge whether a player is in his prime or not
Exactly.
For example: Who's better, Jordan or Kobe?
DAF86 would say, "Kobe."
tbh, Pau just went back to back as the #1 guy. I don't know why people keep underrating him here. smh
OK.
But you're going to have to show me how this level of inconsistency is somehow different than Dirk's... or for that matter Kobe's, LeBron's, Duncan's, etc.
I'm not saying Gasol is more or less consistent than any of those players. For all I know, you're right. But I suspect you're making something of an unfounded accusation. My guess is if we looked at the numbers he probably doesn't have much more of a tendency to be inconsistent than Dirk. That's just me going off the top of my head from what I seem to recall about what these players did this postseason.
I thought this thread was about who was softer, brah... nvm
Kobe makes life a bit easier for Ariza yet he doesn't help him improve as a player?"I used it like it was the Bible," Ariza said.
What we were talking about was the shooting-practice program given to Ariza entering the summer before this season by one Kobe Bryant.
The meaning of the gesture to Ariza - and its net effect in transforming his jump shot and thus this Lakers championship team - makes it the quintessence of the latter-day Bryant as a teammate.
"Getting that from him? Kind of cool, kind of cool," Ariza said. "Because before I got here, you always hear how he's this certain type of person. And when I got here, you realize he's not what everybody says he is.
"I just got in the gym every day and worked. I used what he told me, used some things that he gave me to do. And I just worked."
You are a moron.
http://www.ocregister.com/sports/bry...iza-gasol.html
TBH, none of the Dirk supporters have made a good argument for Nowitzki, other than bringing up his past and Gasol's past, which isn't the question..we're discussing which player is better right now..
I didn't pick Gasol, but I stated why you would take each player..most of the others are bringing up team success or bringing up this attention that Kobe gets for Gasol..this doesn't explain Pau's advantage in rebounding, defense and passing, 3 huge aspects of basketball..
Again, I'm not picking Gasol, but most people here are being unfair to him in this comparison..
It's a small sample size, but why are we ignoring what Pau did without Kobe?..Kobe's attention clearly wasn't there in these games, yet Gasol was still able to show what he can do..why do Kobe fans get so insecure about it?..I clearly gave Kobe the benefit of the doubt by saying he helped Gasol's toughness, but why must they cry about it?..Kobe helps Gasol, Gasol helps Kobe..the argument of "making players better" is overrated IMO..
I find that the #1 vs. #2 option is the most logical answer, but you just have to ask yourself..it's scoring vs. rebounding/defending/passing..is Nowitzki's advantage in scoring superior to Gasol's advantage everywhere else?..
I would say that if you need a volume scorer as your #1 option, you undoubtedly go with Nowitzki..
However, if you already have a #1 option, or if you have multiple legit scoring options(don't have to be #1 options, but could be a couple of #2s or #3s, like a Rudy Gay or somebody of that caliber), do you take Gasol and his all-around game?..
Is Nowitzki's unorthodox style more difficult to build around at this point of his career?..
Last edited by HarlemHeat37; 08-04-2010 at 12:28 AM.
Good. Never use it to describe Tim Duncan and Lebron James.
This coming from the guy who claimed he did it for the children?why do Kobe fans get so insecure about it?
I've never used that compliment to describe either Timmy or Lebron..
I don't know what your last point has anything to do with what I said..I gave Kobe a compliment by saying that he helped Pau gain toughness, yet you wanted me to give Kobe even more compliments, which is very common of Kobe fans, TBH..you guys are never satisfied..
Making life easier is not the same as helping someone improve as player.
We just need to take something as constant. Lets say Player A posted 10pts 50% FG before Player B joins the team. Player B happened to be an elite player who drew all the double team and attention. Player A managed to get more space to launch his J and hence, becoming a player averaging 15pts, 55% FG.
Scenario 1
Player B leaves team. Player A went back to averaging 10pts 50% FG. That is helping to make life easier for Player A (Effect of Player B)
Scenario 2
Player B leaves team. Player A regress a little due to double teaming on Player B but nevertheless averaged 12 pts, 53% FG. Player B made things easier for Player A and probably helped Player A to improve.
Hence, "making life easier" and "improve as a player" doesn't mean exactly the same thing in basketball context.
So the people that are crediting it all to Kobe really don't believe Gasol improved?..is it that mind-blowing?..
Lame.
Player B helps player A improve his game and become a better player when he's there.
What happens to player A when player B is not with the team anymore shouldn't be a testament to his ability at all.
Should Darren Collison's performance last season be a testament of how well off the Hornets could be without Chris Paul?
The truth is somewhere in the middle. Claiming Kobe has absolutely no part in Gasol's improvement as a player is just as re ed.So the people that are crediting it all to Kobe really don't believe Gasol improved?
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