Gasol/Nowitzki comparison

[milkshakeballa]

TBH, none of the Dirk supporters have made a good argument for Nowitzki, other than bringing up his past and Gasol's past, which isn't the question..we're discussing which player is better right now..

I didn't pick Gasol, but I stated why you would take each player..most of the others are bringing up team success or bringing up this attention that Kobe gets for Gasol..this doesn't explain Pau's advantage in rebounding, defense and passing, 3 huge aspects of basketball..

Again, I'm not picking Gasol, but most people here are being unfair to him in this comparison..

It's a small sample size, but why are we ignoring what Pau did without Kobe?..Kobe's attention clearly wasn't there in these games, yet Gasol was still able to show what he can do..why do Kobe fans get so insecure about it?..I clearly gave Kobe the benefit of the doubt by saying he helped Gasol's toughness, but why must they cry about it?..Kobe helps Gasol, Gasol helps Kobe..the argument of "making players better" is overrated IMO..

I find that the #1 vs. #2 option is the most logical answer, but you just have to ask yourself..it's scoring vs. rebounding/defending/passing..is Nowitzki's advantage in scoring superior to Gasol's advantage everywhere else?..

I would say that if you need a volume scorer as your #1 option, you undoubtedly go with Nowitzki..

However, if you already have a #1 option, or if you have multiple legit scoring options(don't have to be #1 options, but could be a couple of #2s or #3s, like a Rudy Gay or somebody of that caliber), do you take Gasol and his all-around game?..

Is Nowitzki's unorthodox style more difficult to build around at this point of his career?..

Great post Harlem...tbh.

[ezau]

Manu is so much better than Kobe

[redzero]

Great post Harlem...tbh.

Are you really a fat guy with highlights in his hair?

[dallaskd]

How many wins did Gasol get as the number one guy again?

Dirk swept Pau out the first round in '06. When both number one guys and in the same division, Pau was Dirk's . Gasol is not an all star if he still plays in Memphis tbh..

[ezau]

Dirk is clearly the more talented of the two, but to say who is "better" is kind of tricky. Dirk is a number 1 option, while Pau is a number 2 guy. As a number one option Gasol couldn't accomplish anything near what Dirk has. I guess you have to ask if Pau is a better number 2 than Dirk is a number 1, and the answer to that is yes.

If Dirk had a chance to play alongside Kobe, then you would have been counting these by now

[ezau]

So how come Duncan is the franchise player, not Manu or TP?

TD can be an anchor both on offense and defense. TP and Manu can't do that.

[will_spurs]

Summary of the thread so far:

Lakers trolls pick Pau.
Anybody with a brain picks Dirk.

[ElNono]

Dirk swept Pau out the first round in '06. When both number guys and in the same division, Pau was Dirk's . Gasol is not an all star if he still plays in Memphis tbh..

tbh, it's hard to have a rematch when your team keeps on getting eliminated in the first round.

[DAF86]

Exactly.

For example: Who's better, Jordan or Kobe?

DAF86 would say, "Kobe."

You know me son.

[JamStone]

My point there was that Manu (unlike Dirk with Gasol) does beat Maggette at least in a category.

And I know for a fact that there're people that thinks that Maggette is a better player than Manu right now.

Manu has Maggette beat in a category of the categories you've listed. And that's part of the problem with your initial post comparing Pau and Dirk. You were quite selective with the "stats" you listed to compare the players. You didn't list points per game. You didn't list steals per game. You didn't list free throw attempts. You didn't list 3point shooting or free throw shooting. You listed a biased set of stats that would help support your contention. Heck, you listed an advanced stat because it was so important but didn't use any other advanced stat. Why not include PER, since that is often a stat used to evaluate players? Is it because last season, Pau and Dirk had the same PER? You only listed stats that favored Pau.

But it's cute you started a thread like a little mouse wrecking havoc around the house while the big bad cats are gone.

And you don't know any people that think Maggette is a better player than Ginobili. You know idiots who argue such stupidity.

You can agree with it or not but pts per FGA is one of the main "advanced stats", I find that stat to be useful 'cause it shows a players' efficiency, which is very important imho. However is not the only stat, I didn't just post that Gasol beats Dirk in pts per FGA, I also showed that he beats him in rebounds, assist, blocks, FG% and pretty much in every important stat for a bigman.

Useful for efficiency? Do you truly believe Corey Maggette is a much more efficient scorer than Michael Jordan was? It's not even like Jordan's career "points per FGA" is about the same as Maggette's. Maggette's is significantly better. That right there should tell you that stat is clearly horse . I'll give another example. Ruben Patterson has a better career "points per FGA" than
Michael Jordan. Yes, that Ruben Patterson. Notice something similar about Maggette and Ruben Patterson? Neither can make a jumpshot. The stat favors players who are great 3 point shooters and have very good shot selection with their 2 point field goal shooting (Steve Nash or Wally Szczerbiak, for example), players who don't take a lot of jumpers (so big men and slashers often would have better "points per FGA" especially if they are good free throw shooters) and players that get to the free throw line a lot. And the stat obviously does not favor perimeter players who are primarily jump shooters. Maggette does two of those things well, attacking the basket for high percentage shots and getting to the free throw line.

It's no surprise that Maggette has a higher "points per FGA" than a lot of players, obviously even Michael Jordan. And it's no surprise that Pau would have a higher "points per FGA" than Dirk. In fact, it's surprising that it's as close as it is since Dirk is by far a more perimeter oriented offensive player.

We agree then, Gasol is the better of the two right now.

I've already said it twice in this thread. Based on last season, I think Gasol is a better overall player than Dirk. I'll add that Pau will never end up having a better career than Dirk. Career wise, it's not even worth debating. And no matter what "scoring efficiency" stats say, Pau will never be a better scorer than Dirk. But sure, at this point in their respective careers, I think Pau has become a better overall player.

I just think that it's evident that your intentions starting this thread were other than having a genuine discussion about why you think Pau has become a better player than Dirk.

[benefactor]

Votes made after the 31st of August will not be taken into consideration.

lol Dirk winning the poll in a landslide with no Mavs fans posting.

[21_Blessings]

lol Dirk winning the poll in a landslide with no Mavs fans posting.

lol mav fan voting en masse with their trolls

[will_spurs]

And you don't know any people that think Maggette is a better player than Ginobili. You know idiots who argue such stupidity.

Well done! It about sums it up.

[koriwhat]

dirk is great but when you got a guy 7 ft tall who has no inside game there's a huge glaring problem right there. he's a pussy inside but if he wasn't he would surely win this debate hands down. truth is you don't win les with a 7 ft shooting guard in this league, maybe in euro-ball but not in the nba.

[DAF86]

lol Dirk winning the poll in a landslide with no Mavs fans posting.

Dude, c'mon.

[DAF86]

But it's cute you started a thread like a little mouse wrecking havoc around the house while the big bad cats are gone.

I think so too, thanks.

lol big bad cats, tbh.

[DAF86]

if gasol was never included in that collusion this discussion wouldn't be happening. ... gasol wouldn't even be mentioned at all, ever!

dirk is great but when you got a guy 7 ft tall who has no inside game there's a huge glaring problem right there. he's a pussy inside but if he wasn't he would surely win this debate hands down. truth is you don't win les with a 7 ft shooting guard in this league, maybe in euro-ball but not in the nba.

Who you got then?

[koriwhat]

Who you got then?

think about it. gasol was nothing in memphis and showed he was passive. not until he got to la did he get on by kobe and phil to the point that it was either man-up or get the outta here. he has a great skill set and now the emotion and confidence he lacked with his prior organization.

i pick gasol because he's made huge strides in these past few yrs as where dirk has made no attempt to even learn a slight inside game. if you're a big man, play like a big man and if you have an outside shot still play like a big man!

[DAF86]

think about it. gasol was nothing in memphis and showed he was passive. not until he got to la did he get on by kobe and phil to the point that it was either man-up or get the outta here. he has a great skill set and now the emotion and confidence he lacked with his prior organization.

Gasol's Memphis days are underrated IMO, think about it: He won ROY and got Memphis the only playoffs trips in their history with a poor supporting cast, all while beign a young guy from another country (which always makes things more difficult) that wasn't in his prime as a player yet, not winning a playoffs game will always be a stigma but that thing is overblown imho.

[My Fault]

think about it. gasol was nothing in memphis and showed he was passive. not until he got to la did he get on by kobe and phil to the point that it was either man-up or get the outta here. he has a great skill set and now the emotion and confidence he lacked with his prior organization.

i pick gasol because he's made huge strides in these past few yrs as where dirk has made no attempt to even learn a slight inside game. if you're a big man, play like a big man and if you have an outside shot still play like a big man!

Do you watch basketball? The "strides" Gasol has made are as 2 fiddle. Dirk has always been 1st option. Easy to make strides when you have Kobe next to you.

[sefant77]

What a funny thread.

Lets see:

Dirk has a ridiculous 25/11 average in almost 100 playoff games, together with just 4 other bigmen alltime.

Gasol as franchise player has 0 playoff wins.

Dirk had just one statistically bad series, that was GS. Anyone that saw that series know GS was able to throw double and triple teams at Dirk because every other player could do with all that free space.

Terry sucked in every single playoff series since 2006. Howard wasnt healthy since years. Thats about the "stacked" teams and great support...

Dirk NEVER had any player that would rescue a bad game from Dirk. Kobe had it over years, first Shaq and later Gasol/Artest/Odom. Even this year it was in at least 3 important games ending with game 7.

For Gasol its just easy to shine in such a stacked team with Kobe as franchise player....

Mavs lost 2009 against Denver 1-4. Dirk somehow with 35/14/4 on almost 50% shooting, the rest? Sucked.

So nice troll thread for DAF, 21_brainfart and kori ...

Nice to see other guys not trinking so much Haterade.

[21_Blessings]

Dirk's offensive rebound %: 3.1

Kobe's ORB%: 3.1



You see the Lakers already have a shooting guard. They don't need a slow, tall, lanky one that's allergic to the paint. Give me a power forward that actually crashes the board, can defend centers and doesn't hover 20 feet away from the basket.

[sefant77]

Imagine Dirk getting all the calls in the paint like Whistle or Bryant. But since he is a PF...

[21_Blessings]

Imagine if Dirk had a post game?

Maybe then he wouldn't get shut down by athletic wings 5 inches shorter than him.

[diego]

this is a good comparison... two skilled big guys who excel at falling over themselves. I'll take dirk, just because he's been doing it longer, but no doubt pau has an edge since he actually plays like a big guy when he isnt stumbling and moaning.

ps: no need to imagine dirk getting those calls, just watch the 06 western playoffs again

pps: whats this about dirk always being a number 1? why do people discount all the good players that were there before 2006?