Great article by Bill Simmons about contract holdouts

[DoKdynasty]

Other than the part about how Steve Nash "never puts himself before the team" (which is complete, utter bull if Simmons was unbiased and removed Nash's from his mouth for a few seconds), this is actually a good article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...simmons/100813

It's a little far fetched to think Brady is gonna leave New England after this year because he's resentful and wants to seek revenge on Robert Craft (someone who he just decided to play 18 holes of golf with), but Simmons is 100% right that New England has not in the slightest lived up to their end of what was basically an unwritten agreement when Brady willingly took a paycut. There's no point in making Brady take a paycut so you can trade out of the first round every year and go for 2nd round value. A team full of 2nd round value only does so much.

[DoKdynasty]

Well that sucks, Ty Warren is done for the year. Fortunately Burgess is coming back and will be the best OLB on the team if he plays like he did at the end of the year last year. I still think it's a good move if they get to use the pick on a premier receiver to replace Moss this year, but damn they really miss Richard Seymour.

[Nathan Explosion]

It's a column not an article. Don't know why it bugs me so, but it does.

Anyway, I thought it was a good read. The funniest thing about Simmons was that my favorite column of his was the one he wrote when his dog died. I have to say, as a man, it got a bit dusty in the room when it was all said and done.

[vander]

yeah, the pats have been terrible in the draft

is the OP trying to say that the team with the most first rounders wins?

how many other teams have risen and fallen while NE stays at the top, doesn't have any cap trouble, has lots of young talent, and has more draft picks next year than probably anyone?

Belichick and co. run circles around the rest of the league, they are serious contenders year in and year out, how many teams in the history of football could lose their top 3 QB and still go 11-5 with some guy who never even played in college? (and then trade that guy to some sucker for a first rounder too )

I'd love to see Brady leave and experience the harsh reality of a normal, ineptly run NFL franchise.

[DoKdynasty]

yeah, the pats have been terrible in the draft

point out where I said that, cause I didn't.

the OP trying to say that the team with the most first rounders wins?

Once again the bible thumper resorts to strawmans. I never said the team with the most first rounders wins, I said that building around 2nd round value guys only gets you so far.

many other teams have risen and fallen while NE stays at the top, doesn't have any cap trouble, has lots of young talent, and has more draft picks next year than probably anyone?

What have the Patriots accomplished without Tom Brady?

BB and co. run circles around the rest of the league, they are serious contenders year in and year out, how many teams in the history of football could lose their top 3 QB and still go 11-5 with some guy who never even played in college? (and then trade that guy to some sucker for a first rounder too )

Well they traded him (along with Mike Vrabel) for a 2nd rounder, but it's not like anyone expected you to know what you were talking about. Bill Belichick has a below .500 record as a coach without Brady, he's obviously not a bad coach, but he's a coach who has accomplished jack without Tom Brady. Given the lack of success the Patriots enjoyed prior to Brady, any Patriots fan with half a brain probably wants them to max out the remainder of Brady's career rather than trade down in the draft every year and build towards drafts down the road.

[vander]

point out where I said that, cause I didn't.

Once again the bible thumperresorts to strawmans. I never said the team with the most first rounders wins, I said that building around 2nd round value guys only gets you so far.

so than what does "A team full of 2nd round value only does so much." mean? other than absolutely nothing
what is a team full of second round value anyways? is there a team full of first round value? is baltimore or whoever beat NE last year a "team full of first round value"?


and how does calling me a bible thumper support your point, or is that just some random spiteful intolerance?

What have the Patriots accomplished without Tom Brady?


Well they traded him (along with Mike Vrabel) for a 2nd rounder, but it's not like anyone expected you to know what you were talking about. Bill Belichick has a below .500 record as a coach without Brady, he's obviously not a bad coach, but he's a coach who has accomplished jack without Tom Brady. Given the lack of success the Patriots enjoyed prior to Brady, any Patriots fan with half a brain probably wants them to max out the remainder of Brady's career rather than trade down in the draft every year and build towards drafts down the road.

and what has Tom Brady accomplished without BB?

Brady benefits much more having Belichick as a coach/GM than BB benefits having Brady, which is why I'd love to see Brady struggle on some other team while BB keeps right on contending for a SB

[DoKdynasty]

so than what does "A team full of 2nd round value only does so much." mean? other than absolutely nothing

It means you can't trade out of the first round every year and you also can only worry about value so much, or in other words you need to be willing to pay for elite talent so you can have more playmaking on your team. You're taking it way too literally. I'll give you an example, Asante Samuel was asking for ridiculous money after 2007, so the Patriots let him leave because he wasn't good "value" at his price. What they didn't realize is that by letting Samuel go, that meant that their superbowls hopes rested on Ellis "lol" Hobbs performing the role of a shut down corner. They've been worrying so much about guys like Vrabel, Samuel, and Seymour no longer having "value", that last year they had ball scrubs like Jonathan Wilhite and Pierre Woods playing major roles on D just because they were "good value".

is a team full of second round value anyways? is there a team full of first round value? is baltimore or whoever beat NE last year a "team full of first round value"?

Chances are Baltimore wouldn't have whipped New England if they decided not to resign Ray Lewis a year ago because he wasn't good "value" and decided not to draft Flacco in the 1st because 1st round contracts aren't good "value". You get what I'm saying?

what has Tom Brady accomplished without BB?

In what way is that relevant? I never said or implied Brady would be contending for superbowls without Belichick. It's a two way streak. Belichick's system needs a QB like Brady, and Brady needs Belichick's system.

benefits much more having Belichick as a coach/GM than BB benefits having Brady

Based off what, the fact Belichick has a career coaching record below .500 when someone other than Brady is QB? We have no way of knowing what Brady would be without Belichick, but it would be kind to even call Belichick's career as a head coach without Brady average

is why I'd love to see Brady struggle on some other team while BB keeps right on contending for a SB

What is this based off? What has Bill Belichick ever done without Brady to make you think he would continue to lead superbowl contending teams without brady?


And to answer the bible thumper question, I'm never a big fan of people acting like Brady is a replaceable QB and Belichick's system is some revolutionary genius scheme that can succeed with high school players at every position. Belichick won all of his superbowls with stacked defenses and a future HoF QB, yes, he has a great system, but like any other coaching system, it needs a good amount of elite players to be successful. It's nothing personal with you, I get ticked at anyone who tries to minimize how important Brady has been to the Patriot's success, and it's just annoying how little urgency they've shown the last 3 off seasons to make the most out of Brady's remaining years.

[Nathan Explosion]

If you were to stick Brady on the Cowboys, how great could that team be with his experience?

And besides, there is no point in collecting first round picks if you never use them. It's like saving time outs. Having them is nice, but if you never use them, then how do they benefit the team?

The Pats should have been better than they have been as of late. Sure you have the Brady injury, but the 11-5 record was deceiving considering they play the Jets and Bills 4 times that year when the teams weren't good.

Here's a list of the teams they beat that year.

Kansas City
NY Jets
San Fran
Denver
St. Louis
Buffalo (2)
Miami
Seattle
Oakland
Arizona

Hardly a murderers row of teams.

In fact, there were only 3 teams with a winning record, and only 1 team had a great record: the Dolphins at 11-5.

Arizona was a weird team in that they weren't good at all during the regular season, but caught fire in the playoffs and rode it to the Super Bowl. But that playoff team was not the same team of the regular season. They might have been the most unlikely Super Bowl team in the NFL considering how they ended the regular season.

In 2006 when they drafted a RB, they passed on two RB who I'd rather have in DeAngelo Williams and to a lesser extent Joseph Addai (Addai is more versatile than Maroney imo).

In 2007 when they should have been looking for a linebacker because theirs were starting to get a bit old, they chose a safety over an emerging OLB in a 3-4 defense by the name of Anthony Spencer. Oh, Jon Beason was also selected after the Pats pick. Wasn't he All-Pro?

When they selected Mayo in 2008, they could have had one of these 3 running backs, all of whom are better than any RB they currently have, Jonathan Stewart, Felix Jones, and some guy named Chris Johnson. But Mayo is a pretty productive player, so you could make a case for that pick.

However, in 2009 they traded out of the first round and missed these two. A RB named Beanie Wells was selected late in the first round, and is probably better than any back NE has. But the Pats missed on a huge defensive prospect by the name of Clay Matthews.

Again, admittedly I do have the benefit of hindsight being 20/20. But to say that the Pats trading picks and amassing 1st rounders later is a good thing is inaccurate. Think about how improved the team could be if the Pats had stuck to their guns and drafted any one or two of these players. Imagine Brady having Moss on the outside, Welker running underneath and Chris Johnson taking handoffs.

[DoKdynasty]

Well to be fair the Jets were actually a good team, but yeah, I agree 100%. New England's 2008 schedule was a joke and made them look a lot better than they were. When they played Arizona they were playing in the snow against a team that couldn't win in the cold weather to save their lives, and yeah, it was when the Cardinals were a mess. I will say that that team had a bunch of other injuries to deal with other than Brady and were still a good team, but they didn't have a snow ball's chance in at contending w/o Brady.

The way they handled the 2005 and 2006 off season was justified because of all the upgrades they made in the 2007 off season, so if their plan is to give all these young players time and then go on another spending spree a year from now so they're stacked next year, then I shouldn't be so critical of them, but lets say Brady has another major injury that sends him into retirement, they'll surely regret the way they made moves recently.