What comes to your mind when you think of "Scoring Point Guard"? Usually we'll think of a guy who runs around and takes 30 shots and seldom passes even when a teammate is wide open(Allen Iverson?). In actuality a Scoring Point Guard isnt a bad thing as long as there play doesnt slow the team down in any way.
Is Tony Parker a Scoring Point Guard? yes, and for the most part that isnt a terrible thing. The problem however is that many times his game will slow the team down. Take the year 2008-09 when Tony Parker averaged 22pts and 6.9 ast a game. Everybody wants that Tony Parker to return for the 2010-11 season. Unfortunately, few Spurs fans realise that those 08-09 numbers werent pure. As a matter of fact they're about as pure as Jose Calderon's 07-08 numbers* (11.2pts/8.3ast and only 1.5to's a game). In 08-09 You have Tim duncan and three 3pt shooters (Finley/Mason/Bonner over 40% from 3) with Parker. If you a run a high screen and roll with Duncan up at top, you can either get to the basket and score a layup without help or if doubled you have 3 legit sharpshooters that you can pass to for an easy assist. Take Manu out of the eqaution and you have one creator doing all that (Parker).
In 09-10 He played the same style, Difference was that Bogans isnt as consistent as Mason was from deep the season before. Jefferson is a catch and finish player unlike a spot up 3pt shooter like Finley. And Blair is a low post player, not to mention the fact that Dice wasnt hitting that jumper consistently at the start of the season compared to Bonner launching from shots from 3. Result = From highs in 09 with less talent to serious lows 10' with a well balance squad.
Parkers problem isnt so much his passing, believe or not. Its his scoring that hurts him. Other Scoring Point Guards, like Billups and B.Davis can take their 20shots and not hurt their team cause they can rack up and easy 8-10ast setting up a VARIETY of different players as well. How? Their ways of scoring vary. Both Billups and Davis can hit the 3/midrange jumpers with consistency as well as post up and drive. Because of that they can make the game easier for guys who shoot (cause of their ability to drive) guys who move without the ball (cause of their ability to post and draw a double team) and big men who can only finish at the rim ( cause of their ability to shoot 3's and force over the screen help from defenses). Parker can only drive. His shot is not lethal, and he really doesnt have a post game. So when Defenses sag in an go under screens, we'll usually see a 5 for 16 shooting performance from Parker. If Parker develops a more balanced scoring game, he will easily be able balance his scoring and passing to fit in with the likes of an RJ/Blair/Splitter and still be able to take 15-20shots without slowing down what can be a dangerous and versatile offense.
Trade Parker? Lets wait an see what adjustments he makes first and move on from there before starting a 90th trade parker thread.
* for an explanation on Calderons numbers, just ask.
maybe this thread should have been started after the season began, to see how he does... instead of starting another TRADE PARKER THREAD.Trade Parker? Lets wait an see what adjustments he makes first and move on from there before starting a 90th trade parker thread.
maybe.
Yea I can see why Parkers numbers were inflated back in 08-09, he also had to carry the load after Manu got injured and trying to rest Duncan for the playoffs. It was basically the Tony Parker show that season - he had a 55 point game on 61% shooting, 42 point game at 72%, 39 pts on 63%, and had 24 games where he scored 25 points or more. Hopefully his decision to rest this offseason and not play for France will help him reach back to that point although he's going to have to sacrifice his stats if they really want to utilize RJ's strengths as well (his strength of finishing in transition/at the rim is TP's as well).
Parker does have a respectable mid range jumpshot but I too am disappointed in his lack of progress in just about every other facet of his game since developing that jumper. Kinda remarkable that George Hill was able to make huge leaps in his shooting in his sop re year by comparison.
I've got a lot more confidence in tonys than most, I don't really get the complaint, and additionally he finishes better than anyone. He's made innumerable clutch jumpers. I want to see him shoot FT% in the 80s. And have assists around 6-7. If Tony could get these new guys involved it would be tremendous.
Teams defending tp go under screens an if theyre smart theyll make tp string together 5-6 jumpshots an see how many he hits. Do you think that defenses would use that same strategy with hills corner 3? Hills 3's thus far are legit. Parkers jumpshot is still inconsistent.
Last edited by portnoy1; 08-23-2010 at 05:16 PM.
uh.
Ask dallas how that worked out for them in crunch time during the playoffs last season. Throw in Parker's finishing ability and his knowledge of the Spurs' system and the assertation that GHill would throw more of a scare into defenses is laughable, at best (and I love me some GH3, btw).
Man, you've ruined it.
We know it has taken at least a couple of weeks to write the original post so that the Parker hate wouldn't be too obvious, but it only took you one answer to go back to sqaure one. Your therapist won't be happy
An what one answer was that? Parker scoring is very important considering the steady decline of Duncan an the unpredictable health of manu. My whole point was that Parker can take his 20 shots an still keep the offense flowing by adding some more things to his offensive game.3ptrs / post game? Parker can put up the same numbers he did in 08-09 if he was in orlando or phoenix.
Ah, a portnoy1 thread about the deficiencies of Tony Parker. It's been a long time. As usual, it's filled with multiple inaccuracies and false assumptions of varying degrees, but none more hilarious than this one:
Baron Davis can take the 3/midrange jumpers in very high numbers, but he makes them at a very low rate. Baron's career 3pt% is .319 while Tony's is .312. Baron does chuck them up at a remarkable rate, averaging over 5 attempts per game for his career, even leading the NBA in 3pt attempts in a season in which he made only 32.7% of those shots.
As for Baron's 'consistent' midrange jumper, please see his career 40.9% FG% and this link for the 2008-09 season where Baron had the second lowest 2pt jump shooting percentage among all qualified players in the NBA (Baron was at 33.3%, while Tony was at 42.2%. The same link also shows that Tony made 64.1% of his inside shots compared to 49.1% for Baron):
http://www.82games.com/0809/FGSORT7.HTM
This just makes my head explode. If George had an effective pull-up three like Nash this would make some sense, but his corner 3 is a catch and shoot SG skill that can be exploited off of dishes from Tony. I don't understand how an effective corner 3 has anything to do with either player's PG skills.
To answer the le, i'd rather him shoot.
Heck yeah, me too. Simply because things dont work right when he has to pass and be more of a playmaker. I've seen games where Pop has ask him to be more of a setup guy. Its bad, real bad. He had wide open shots that game and he was very hesistant on whether to take it or not. Being balanced as a point guard is extremely hard. I dont blame Tony for the trouble he had gelling with the new guys last season. I blame Pop, (There I said it). alot of it has to do with the spurs make up and him needing to score pretty much all the time. Now Pop yanked the chain and asked him to be a little (alot Imo) more balanced. He can do it, but he really has take time to see what works for other guys.
If your playing baron davis, do you go under the screen? And he has a post up game btw. Before Mel13 gets things brewing, This is not a trade parker/hate parker/love parker thread. Its really a thread to see how TP can gel with his teammates a little better, like Manu did. Yeah, he's got weaknesses and he has strengths. So if you want him gone just cause you dont like him or you think there is not a better pg in the world than him then this is not the thread for you.Ah, a portnoy1 thread about the deficiencies of Tony Parker. It's been a long time. As usual, it's filled with multiple inaccuracies and false assumptions of varying degrees, but none more hilarious than this one:
Baron Davis can take the 3/midrange jumpers in very high numbers, but he makes them at a very low rate. Baron's career 3pt% is .319 while Tony's is .312. Baron does chuck them up at a remarkable rate, averaging over 5 attempts per game for his career, even leading the NBA in 3pt attempts in a season in which he made only 32.7% of those shots.
As for Baron's 'consistent' midrange jumper, please see his career 40.9% FG% and this link for the 2008-09 season where Baron had the second lowest 2pt jump shooting percentage among all qualified players in the NBA (Baron was at 33.3%, while Tony was at 42.2%. The same link also shows that Tony made 64.1% of his inside shots compared to 49.1% for Baron):
http://www.82games.com/0809/FGSORT7.HTM
This just makes my head explode. If George had an effective pull-up three like Nash this would make some sense, but his corner 3 is a catch and shoot SG skill that can be exploited off of dishes from Tony. I don't understand how an effective corner 3 has anything to do with either player's PG skills.
Parker's game is what it is. He can be a game changer when he is on the offensive. Not a lot of players are true game changers. He is not going to all of a sudden become a pass first point guard. It is not going to happen. The one area that I think needs work and that he could do much better is his defense. For someone as fast as he is he plays off the ball way too much and does not move his feet with the same intensity he does on offense.
No question, but if he didn't address it when we were the premier defensive team in the league, he's not going to get around to it. Worse yet, he's only going to get slower.
Last year:
Chauncey Billups assists per game : 5.6 in 34.1 min
Tony Parker assists per game : 5.7 in 30.9 min
And lol at the 27.7 % "consistency" 3 points % of Baron Davis. He's worse than Parker.
And Baron Davis is a 40% FG guy when Parker is a 50 % FG guy.
Parker's lack of progress is something that's bothered me too. He's a very predictable player, but because of his size and his slowing down, he's much easier to stop.
He relied on his speed when he was younger, but he's no longer the fastest player in the league. I always thought he'd develop a long range game, but it doesn't seem like that's in the cards.
Always been shoot first for him.
Their no problem with him shooting first.Him trying to be a setup guy isnt his strength an never will be. If he just sets guys up all game like a rondo then the team will suffer, because imo tp is the only one that can get you 20pts a game everynight when healthy. However his offensive game compliments only shooters. The spurs have an awesome squad but most of them arent spot up shooters. This doesnt mean parker should get 10ast everynight. 5-6ast are just fine as long as its not penetrate an kick all the time. He has to find ways to get RJ an Blair buckets.an drive an kick doesnt work well for those two guys.
[QUOTE=timaios;4593780]Last year:
Chauncey Billups assists per game : 5.6 in 34.1 min
Tony Parker assists per game : 5.7 in 30.9 min
And lol at the 27.7 % "consistency" 3 points % of Baron Davis. He's worse than Parker.
And Baron Davis is a 40% FG guy when Parker is a 50 % FG guy.[
wow those numbers vs cb a little surprising, but BD sucks
I really wish it was possible that the NBA and analysts would just stop bothering with the boxscores, statistics and so on, this should only be something for the NBA teams and coaches to follow closely, and simply enjoy following the game, not bothering whether Duncan has 16 pts or 12, noth bothering whether someone has shot 26.8372524474848 percent from downtown, I hate it when these statistics are constantly fed to the viewer. Just watch the ing games and quit bothering about stupid numbers FFS!
Then fewer geeks would be stroking their s to 5.623493838 assist per game.
Good point as there is one ball for 10 people on the court. That means that 90% of the game is played without the ball. Stats are weighed for on the ball acheivements and ignore 90% of the game. It is also follows true that fans only know about 10% of what is going on as is evident from their many of their posts.
Then Enlighten us ignorant fans!!!!
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