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Why is it a problem if Cordoba House is built two blocks from Ground Zero? Why are those opposed such emo pussies? It's not like they're building a minaret as tall as the towers were in the craters left behind.
The Tea Party movement is overwhelmingly powered and animated by partisanship, not racism. The Tea Partiers are conservative Republicans who do not want to be associated with the Republican Party that they supported for 8 years while they drove this country into a ditch. Just as the media zeroed in on people with purple mohawks, multiple piercings and tattoo sleeves during coverage of protests in the run-up to the Iraq War, and ignored the guys showing up wearing khakis and oxford shirts, the same phenomenon exists in coverage of Tea Partiers - the racist signs are what ends up on the blogs and on the news, not the people who eschew racist sentiment.Resistance to the vast expansion of government power, intrusiveness and debt, as represented by the Tea Party movement? Why, racist resentment toward a black president.
It's not possible to legally immigrate to the United States from Mexico. There's a waiting list with people who have been on it for 16 years. As long as conditions in Mexico remain ty, and as long as there are jobs available here that white-collar professionals consider beneath them, and employers are eager to look the other way regarding the status of this workforce, then people from Mexico will continue to come here illegally. I think it would make more sense to work out some sort of guest worker or amnesty program for the people who have been here and have abided by our laws than to demonize them or continue the status quo. I find it amazing that the governor of Arizona would destroy her state's reputation and torpedo tourism opportunities by portraying it as a lawless wasteland when crime statistics show that the violent crime rate has essentially remained the same. Aside from that, people who are US citizens and are of Latino heritage would potentially be singled out for unreasonable searches and seizure. I don't know if you call that nativism or not, but it's wrong and not at all a constructive solution to the problem. As for the violence associated with the drug trade and coyote smuggling, there's two pretty easy solutions: End the Drug War and the incarceration economy, as well as working out a process for Mexican citizens to come here legally.Disgust and alarm with the federal government's unwillingness to curb illegal immigration, as crystallized in the Arizona law? Nativism.
Base motives or not, there's really no rational or logical reason to oppose the right of gay couples to marry and file a joint tax return. I don't know if that's phobia, but as even Glenn Beck would say 'If it neither picks my pocket or breaks my leg, why should I care?"-- Opposition to the most radical redefinition of marriage in human history, as expressed in Proposition 8 in California? phobia.
Islam didn't knock down the towers, 19 terrorists did. Opponents of the planned Cordoba House development seem to center their arguments around two themes:-- Opposition to a 15-story Islamic center and mosque near Ground Zero? Islamophobia.
1. It's insensitive (which is subjective opinion and should not carry greater weight than private property rights, freedom of religion as guaranteed by the Bill of Rights, and respecting local control, since the municipal authority granted a construction permit). When as a nation did we become a bunch of emo pussies whose feelings carry greater weight than the rule of law?
2. Conflating the developers with the 9/11 hijackers and condemning Islam itself as a barbaric religion that glorifies attacks against innocent civilians. This kind of thinking really does not merit a response, but I will point out the irony that jihadists would bomb the Cordoba House if they could, because they see Muslims behind it as sellouts to the West and not "true" adherents of Islam. It's also an insult to the Muslim group behind Cordoba House since they have been battling these extremists far longer than we have to be lumped in with them.
Oh Charles Krauthammer, you are so lacking in serious thought and self-awareness. Conservative political operatives and their allies in conservative media outlets ginned up controversy over Cordoba House when opposition in the local community was minimal and muted at best. Plans for Cordoba House were announced last December. It wasn't until the New York Post began running stories on it in May that other conservative media outlets picked up on the story and ran with it. They want to make it a defining issue in the mid-term elections when it has no practical effect on the lives of people who don't live and work in lower Manhattan. If you oppose the Cordoba House Construction after hearing about it while watching Fox News, know that you are being played by professional political operatives in a position of power, authority and influence and are co-opting a cause for their purposes.But because a comeuppance is due the arrogant elites whose undisguised contempt for the great unwashed prevents them from conceding a modi of serious thought to those who dare oppose them.
The Democrats are going to lose badly this fall because this economic environment is toxic for in bents period, and there are far more Democratic in bents than Republican ones.
Why is it a problem if Cordoba House is built two blocks from Ground Zero? Why are those opposed such emo pussies? It's not like they're building a minaret as tall as the towers were in the craters left behind.
Well tough . Get over it. Private Property Rights, Freedom of Religion, Local Control as embodied by the local zoning authority granting a construction permit. Seems like a conservative would have no problem with it being built. But you'll sell out your principles to get your desired outcome. Big surprise. Movement "conservatives" don't know the first ing thing about classical conservatism.
What is it about then?
It was in the name of Islam according to Islamic extremists who use the Islamic religion to brainwash people into committing terrorist acts. It's not like something in the Koran advocates violence of that magnitude. If you wonder why people call Republicans racists, it's because of asinine statements like that that generalize a religion that has 1 billion plus followers with only a very small fraction being terrorists.
What's clear is your lack of reading comprehension. You've been answering or asking questions that had little or nothing to do with the posts I've made.
You need to ask yourself, "What is Blackjack stating and what am I stating?"
I've said the mosque should be built, that it's the "right " thing to do and that there is never a good reason to do the wrong thing. What's right is right.
You've argued that anyone conflicted with the idea of a mosque -- on sacred ground -- consists of no grey and that anyone whom opposes is either a racist or Islamaphobe, never once taking into consideration the emotion of the situation.
Thousands of innocent Americans were slaughtered by Islamic extremists in the name of Jihad, Islam. And while they're a minority of the Islamic faith, one that happens to be the largest in the world, that minority consists of a sizable group and even more that sympathize. They are the people that make it hard for those who either lost loved ones or were just genuinely affected by the events of 9-11. It doesn't matter to them that the vast majority of Islam doesn't or wouldn't condone the actions of 9-11. The simple fact that those extremists would be able to claim some kind of victory and mock from afar, is just too unsettling a proposition.
But you see no grey, no emotion, no reason or justification for anyone to have pause or form opposition to the mosque at Ground Zero. Instead, you paint all that oppose as racists.
No need for me to ask the question now: definitely lemming.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't learn 'em Google.You failed to acknowledge that prejudice and racism are synonyms, (even though it's of minor relevance to any argument you are trying to make)
Let me ask you a question, is a predjudiced view or opinion contingent on race or being racial?
The confusion lies with you. What you can't or fail to comprehend tends to do that.You also failed to justify your confused feelings for those with confused feelings.
Tbh brah pretty sure there's a verse that says "kill all the unbelievers" or some like that.
But I bet someone would say it's "out of context".
(burp)
Last edited by Winehole23; 08-28-2010 at 06:30 AM.
I don't need to ask what you have previously stated. It is right here:
If they are wrong, right is right, and you are for the mosque being built, why do you respect their struggle with the issue?
I absolutely have taken into consideration the emotion of the situation. Islamophobic emotion is not a good reason to protest them building a mosque.You've argued that anyone conflicted with the idea of a mosque -- on sacred ground -- consists of no grey and that anyone whom opposes is either a racist or Islamaphobe, never once taking into consideration the emotion of the situation.
Do you think it is?
Apparently you do.
If right is right and wrong is wrong, what's the moral dilemma?
Where exactly are these extremists?Thousands of innocent Americans were slaughtered by Islamic extremists in the name of Jihad, Islam. And while they're a minority of the Islamic faith, one that happens to be the largest in the world, that minority consists of a sizable group and even more that sympathize. They are the people that make it hard for those who either lost loved ones or were just genuinely affected by the events of 9-11. It doesn't matter to them that the vast majority of Islam doesn't or wouldn't condone the actions of 9-11. The simple fact that those extremists would be able to claim some kind of victory and mock from afar, is just too unsettling a proposition.
If they are mocking from afar, why is it so unsettling for people?
Don't throw out and hope it sticks. Be specific.
No I don't. I clearly stated that so far we have, racists, Islamophobes, and bad tasters.But you see no grey, no emotion, no reason or justification for anyone to have pause or form opposition to the mosque at Ground Zero. Instead, you paint all that oppose as racists.
I am absolutely not a lemming. I am absolutely open to any suggestion as to why people are getting so butthurt over a mosque.No need for me to ask the question now: definitely lemming.
I would really, really like to know if someone out there has a justifiable reason to protest the mosque.
If they aren't protesting due to their racism, Islamophobia, or bad tastism, why are they protesting?
If they can't come up with a good reason, then they should shut the up.
I get it. You are the horse. Good one.You can lead a horse to water but you can't learn 'em Google.
No.Let me ask you a question, is a predjudiced view or opinion contingent on race or being racial?
Let me ask you a question. Why do you think their prejudice in this situation is justifiable?
Absolutely not. I understand very clearly the questions I am asking you, based on what you have posted so far.The confusion lies with you. What you can't or fail to comprehend tends to do that.
You can lead a horse to a question, but you can't learn 'em how to read it.
What is the moral dilemma for these people?
Right is right, wrong is wrong, right? What exactly is it that is wrong with the center being built? Be specific.
So we're to believe that all morals, ethics and sensitivities are the same?
Are you suggesting that your morals are my morals and my morals are their morals?
Please explain.
I guess you would like me to answer again. It's annoying when someone is clearly losing an argument and tries to keep it alive long enough to escape with some kind of victory. But, alas, I'll humor you.I absolutely have taken into consideration the emotion of the situation. Islamophobic emotion is not a good reason to protest them building a mosque.
Do you think it is?
Islamaphobia exists. Racism exists. Predjudice on it's own exists -- which comes from a fear, ignorance or some event in one's life that taints and skews a view to paint a whole people as a threat to them in some way. It's not a hatred or a superiority, it's wrong-minded. It's thinking that could be swayed to the right side of the argument given experience and a greater light shed on the subject matter.
I know me and my morals, ethics and insensitivities. I know people that genuinely feel the way I've relayed to you and you've simply dismissed with no logic, other than it doesn't coincide with your own beliefs.Apparently you do.
If right is right and wrong is wrong, what's the moral dilemma?
You going to show me how to prove a negative?
You can't be this ignorant, and simply asking questions for the sake of asking questions isn't going to help you with your argument.Where exactly are these extremists?
If they are mocking from afar, why is it so unsettling for people?
Don't throw out and hope it sticks. Be specific.
Should I have all of the recordings of Al-Qaeda leadership and video of celebrations and flag burning on cue to prove that people mock from afar and celebrate their muse -- in the form of a mosque -- being built where their heroes slaughtered thousands? Are you really that dense?
Bad taste doesn't bring forth the type of emotion you've seen. Being wronged, feeling taken advantage of, thinking that the memory of those that lost their lives could potentially be defiled and/or dishonored does -- and, yes, so does ignorance, fear and hate, which belongs to the intolerant and bigoted.No I don't. I clearly stated that so far we have, racists, Islamophobes, and bad tasters.
There will obviously never be a reason that doesn't include racism, Islamaphobia or bad taste in your mind. You're not looking for an answer, you're looking to minimalize and demonize those you disagree with. That's all this back and forth's been about -- we don't disagree on the mosque, yet you feel it necessary to state that ALL of those who disagree with our view are bigots, racists (and the newest entry "bad tasters").I am absolutely not a lemming. I am absolutely open to any suggestion as to why people are getting so butthurt over a mosque.
I would really, really like to know if someone out there has a justifiable reason to protest the mosque.
If they aren't protesting due to their racism, Islamophobia, or bad tastism, why are they protesting?
If they can't come up with a good reason, then they should shut the up.
Wish you would have come with better to back that up ...
... because this ain't it.
Your views are clearly prejudiced, so much as to affect your comprehension.
No, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't learn 'em how to use and comprehend what he's found and read.Absolutely not. I understand very clearly the questions I am asking you, based on what you have posted so far.
You can lead a horse to a question, but you can't learn 'em how to read it.
What are your morals?What is the moral dilemma for these people?
Why is this a question to me, be specific?
No.
You sympathize with those that object to the mosque because they are wrestling with a moral issue.
What is that moral issue?
It was a simple yes or no question that you failed to answer again.I guess you would like me to answer again. It's annoying when someone is clearly losing an argument and tries to keep it alive long enough to escape with some kind of victory. But, alas, I'll humor you.
Islamaphobia exists. Racism exists. Predjudice on it's own exists -- which comes from a fear, ignorance or some event in one's life that taints and skews a view to paint a whole people as a threat to them in some way. It's not a hatred or a superiority, it's wrong-minded. It's thinking that could be swayed to the right side of the argument given experience and a greater light shed on the subject matter.
No.I know me and my morals, ethics and insensitivities. I know people that genuinely feel the way I've relayed to you and you've simply dismissed with no logic, other than it doesn't coincide with your own beliefs.
You going to show me how to prove a negative?
The original question again is:
If it isn't racism, Islamophobia, or bad tastism then what is it that makes these people feel this way?
If it's a moral dilemma which you have stated it is, then what specifically is the dilemma?
I'm not making any arguments. I'm asking questions. Thus the question marks at the end of my sentences.You can't be this ignorant, and simply asking questions for the sake of asking questions isn't going to help you with your argument.
None of that is an answer to my questions. Why is it so hard for you to answer questions regarding your posts?Should I have all of the recordings of Al-Qaeda leadership and video of celebrations and flag burning on cue to prove that people mock from afar and celebrate their muse -- in the form of a mosque -- being built where their heroes slaughtered thousands? Are you really that dense?
But regarding this post, how do you know these celebrations and flag burning come in the form of this mosque?
But back to the original questions again:
Where exactly are these extremists?
If they are mocking from afar, why is it so unsettling for people?
Don't throw out and hope it sticks. Be specific.
How will this mosque potentially defile or dishonor the memory of those that lost their lives?Bad taste doesn't bring forth the type of emotion you've seen. Being wronged, feeling taken advantage of, thinking that the memory of those that lost their lives could potentially be defiled and/or dishonored does -- and, yes, so does ignorance, fear and hate, which belongs to the intolerant and bigoted.
I would agree that it won't unless you live in ignorance, fear and hate which belong to the intolerant and bigoted.
I think we might be getting somewhere here.
Yes, I am looking for an answer. If it's not one of those things listed, then what is it?There will obviously never be a reason that doesn't include racism, Islamaphobia or bad taste in your mind. You're not looking for an answer.
Gottdam.
You are like the horse that can't google a thesaurus. I think it made the point just fine.Wish you would have come with better to back that up ...
So are they or aren't they prejudiced?... because this ain't it.
Your views are clearly prejudiced, so much as to affect your comprehension.
I never brought up the word....you did.
Now you are all over the place and having to resort to name calling.
Sounds about right, horse.No, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't learn 'em how to use and comprehend what he's found and read.
Regarding what?What are your morals?
Be specific in your question so I can give you a specific answer.
Specifically? Because you specifically said it was a moral dilemma for some, specifically.Why is this a question to me, be specific?
What is the moral dilemma?
Hypothetical:
Say you board an aircraft and notice several middle eastern men board the aircraft after you. If you do a double-take or in any way give them more scrutiny than any other passenger, are you an Islamophobe? Or, do you just have common sense based on knowledge of the past 40 years?
Hypothetically, if you notice several middle eastern men board the aircraft after you and the first thing you think about is terrorist, then yeah, hypothetically, you're an Islamophobe. What the do you think Islamophobia means?
I think you have the wrong idea of what common sense is. Common sense should be telling you that most Muslims are NOT terrorists, but no, you immediately jump to terrorism. Your double take of those middle eastern men wasn't out of common sense, it was out of paranoid fear.
Obviously, it's not islamophobia until you call them sand-######s.
Last edited by balli; 08-28-2010 at 09:09 PM.
Wrong. You would scope them out and it would be completely natural to do so. It would probably be even out of your control NOT to be hyper-vigilant.
You lie.
Do you consider every middle eastern man a terrorist until proven otherwise, Darrin?
Only on planes?
If a black man were to walk down the street and see a group of young white men, with heads shaved very close to the scalp, and acting a bit rowdy, he'd probably be wise to keep an eye on them. Even though, they may just be a group of military guys having a night on the town. The "better safe than sorry" at ude of the black man is hardly racism.
So you are afraid of black men too?
On a plane would definitely make me more vigilant.
Keep in mind, James Woods was on a flight in August 2001 and saw a group of middle eastern men behaving strangely on a flight. He reported it to authorities. Maybe James Woods is just a racist.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/woods.asp
If so, I'm afraid of several of my relatives.
You're a real American hero, DarrinS. Do you dream about stopping terrorists?
I don't know if Woods is a racist, but you prove your Islamophobia earlier in this thread.
I believe that.
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