The last refuge of a liberal

[LnGrrrR]

Wrong. You would scope them out and it would be completely natural to do so. It would probably be even out of your control NOT to be hyper-vigilant.

You lie.

DarrinS, you slay me. You ask if someone would be afraid/concerned/nervous if you saw a few Muslim men on an airplane, and immediately associate them with terrorists. Then you use that as an example of your LACK of Islamophobia.

[LnGrrrR]

Here's how DarrinS would bold this quote:

Keep in mind, James Woods was on a flight in August 2001 and saw a group of middle eastern men behaving strangely on a flight. He reported it to authorities. Maybe James Woods is just a racist.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/woods.asp

Here's the actual relevant info:

Keep in mind, James Woods was on a flight in August 2001 and saw a group of middle eastern men behaving strangely on a flight. He reported it to authorities. Maybe James Woods is just a racist.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/woods.asp

Tell me, if those men were white, do you think Mr. Woods shouldn't have notified anyone?

[LnGrrrR]

NO, NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORIST, BUT ALL TERRORISTS ARE MUSLIMS.

Wow, I never knew McVeigh was Muslim. Or the Unabomber.

[admiralsnackbar]

Wow, I never knew McVeigh was Muslim. Or the Unabomber.

Or the KKK.

[LnGrrrR]

What are morals and how do you define them for others?

Yes, but your argument seems to be "Some people are morally opposed and that's ok."

But that doesn't seem to work in this case, anymore so than saying, "Well some people think it's morally ok to have sex with little children, and so we should respect those moral beliefs". Just because there are different sets of morality doesn't make them right. Why should we LEGITIMIZE the moralities of people who wish the mosque to move?

[Spurminator]

Or Joseph Stack.

[rjv]

Is English your first language?


NO, NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORIST, BUT ALL TERRORISTS ARE MUSLIMS.


Before some lib has a hissy fit and mentions the IRA -- when I say terrorist, I mean those that have been actively attacking the US or US interests for the past 40 years.

so i guess the unibomber, eric rudolph, bruce ivins, timothy mcveigh were muslims?

or this from the FBI: FBI statistics show that, from 1980 through 1985, there were 18 terrorist attacks in the U.S. committed by Jews; 15 of those by members of the JDL.[13] Mary Doran, an FBI agent, described the JDL in a 2004 Congressional testimony as "a proscribed terrorist group". Most recently, then-JDL Chairman Irv Rubin was jailed while awaiting trial on charges of conspiracy in planning bomb attacks against the King Fahd Mosque in Culver City, Calif., and on the office of Arab-American Congressman Darrell Issa

apparently, darrin likes to qualify premises in order to make them somehow immune to validity tests. alice in wonderland logic seems to be his level of comfort.

[ChumpDumper]

or this from the FBI: FBI statistics show that, from 1980 through 1985, there were 18 terrorist attacks in the U.S. committed by Jews; 15 of those by members of the JDL.[13] Mary Doran, an FBI agent, described the JDL in a 2004 Congressional testimony as "a proscribed terrorist group". Most recently, then-JDL Chairman Irv Rubin was jailed while awaiting trial on charges of conspiracy in planning bomb attacks against the King Fahd Mosque in Culver City, Calif., and on the office of Arab-American Congressman Darrell Issa.

Anti-Semite!

[Mikesatx]

this is just an appeal to emotion disguised as analogy. as admiral pointed out, it's far too obtuse and general to really be used as an effective analogy and the use of a parents concern for a child in this case certainly dominates the scenario. also, in this case, the parents can not forbid the neighbors from having the dog which is really more the problem that your analogy would want to address.

The parent can't forbid me from having the dog and American's can't nor shouldn't forbid a mosque from being built on private land. The point of the analogy was to address the idea of Islamaphobia. Many on this site are quick to attach this label to anyone expressing concerns. With the label comes the assumption of racist, biggot or just ignorant. Just as the parent at the very least keeping a closer eye on their kids with my dog next door doesn't make them a dog hater or ignorant. Those that express concerns over the mosque are not necessarily racists, biggots or ignorant.

[ChumpDumper]

Those that express concerns over the mosque are not necessarily racists, biggots or ignorant.

That may be, but most of the reasoning against the mosque expressed here has been racist, bigoted and/or ignorant.

[clambake]

what are the relevant concerns?

[LnGrrrR]

Muslim terrorists have killed FAR more people than pit bulls.

So have cars. I bet DarrinS watches out for su ious cars at every dealership he goes to, like a hawk. You'd be lying if you said you didn't too.

[Spurminator]

Nobody wants to be called a racist or a bigot because it implies that you're a bad person. I don't think opposition to the mosque makes you a bad person, but there is really no argument against it that doesn't involve some form of prejudice... even for the most sympathetic and understandable arguments against it, of which there are few, and which are surrounded and drowned out by undeniably bigoted opposition.

[Blake]

what are the relevant concerns?

Nancy!

[rjv]

The parent can't forbid me from having the dog and American's can't nor shouldn't forbid a mosque from being built on private land. The point of the analogy was to address the idea of Islamaphobia. Many on this site are quick to attach this label to anyone expressing concerns. With the label comes the assumption of racist, biggot or just ignorant. Just as the parent at the very least keeping a closer eye on their kids with my dog next door doesn't make them a dog hater or ignorant. Those that express concerns over the mosque are not necessarily racists, biggots or ignorant.

so muslims are pit bulls and christians are puppies ?

[clambake]

so muslims are pit bulls and christians are puppies ?

yes, the puppies set fire to a mosque site in tennessee on saturday.

i guess it's too close to ground zero.

[Blake]

I don't think it's a strawman as much as an inaccurate generalization like the one I wrote about in the above post. The terrorists were united by a common ideology, but said ideology is as commensurate with mainstream Islam as Fred Phelps' clan of creeps is with mainstream Babtist Christianity. Extremism, by definition, is not to be confused with the mainstream.
Does it matter what kind of American believes what he/she does? It only matters that to be Americans, we must obey a code of conduct. And again, if a reasonable argument can be made for wanting to marginalize an equally American community, great -- but nobody in this thread has yet made a reasonable case for the denial of privileges to Americans of a different faith (with, granted, unsavory psychological associations) than themselves.

Without this reasonable case made, I don't see how you get around racism, or Islamophobia, or what have you. These are loaded words with their own decisively pejorative connotations, but if we're honest with ourselves, what else could we be talking about when we want to deny our fellow citizens rights and comforts we ourselves enjoy without a reason we can articulate?

If prejudice is believing things about a group of people before having met them individually or learning about their group diversity, then sorry, but some of the people we're discussing are prejudiced. If phobias are irrational fears that distort our normal behavior for unknown reasons, why is it inaccurate to describe somebody as phobic when he regards a group of people he has no reason to distrust with abnormal su ion or as deserving of abridged rights? It doesn't make the bigot or the phobic a bad or hateful person, just an unreasonable one, because they ultimately can't defend their actions, only articulate their stereotypes or anxieties.

If you can give an example of a credible argument for denying the Muslims their Community Center that a good-hearted American might employ, I'm all ears. But it honestly just sounds like you're playing apologist because it offends your sensibilities that prejudice and fear could be omnipresent. Pardon the didactic obviousness, but prejudice doesn't have to wear a white hood or jackboots (these are our prejudicial stereotypes of bigotry and xenophobia).

There's a great quote by Hannah Arendt talking about Nazi Germany and the final solution... she described it as "the banality of evil." In other words, evil doesn't look like Snidely Whiplash -- it looks like us.

Better than I really ever wanted to to take the time to put it.

Well done.

After further thought, imo, it appears that those that consider it to be in bad taste or inappropriate simply fall into the racist or anti-Islamic category.

[ChumpDumper]

yes, the puppies set fire to a mosque site in tennessee on saturday.

i guess it's too close to ground zero.

The puppies were just expressing concern.

Probably about parking.

[LnGrrrR]

The parent can't forbid me from having the dog and American's can't nor shouldn't forbid a mosque from being built on private land. The point of the analogy was to address the idea of Islamaphobia. Many on this site are quick to attach this label to anyone expressing concerns. With the label comes the assumption of racist, biggot or just ignorant. Just as the parent at the very least keeping a closer eye on their kids with my dog next door doesn't make them a dog hater or ignorant. Those that express concerns over the mosque are not necessarily racists, biggots or ignorant.

If the dog seems friendly, than yes, it'd be a paranoid fear I think. And the chance of getting bit by a pitbull is probably more likely than the chance of being attacked by terrrorists.

[clambake]

The puppies were just expressing concern.

Probably about parking.

it was a terrorist act. darrin says they have to be muslims. wc says muslims did it just to make christians look bad.

[Blake]

The parent can't forbid me from having the dog and American's can't nor shouldn't forbid a mosque from being built on private land. The point of the analogy was to address the idea of Islamaphobia. Many on this site are quick to attach this label to anyone expressing concerns. With the label comes the assumption of racist, biggot or just ignorant. Just as the parent at the very least keeping a closer eye on their kids with my dog next door doesn't make them a dog hater or ignorant. Those that express concerns over the mosque are not necessarily racists, biggots or ignorant.

so you are saying that Muslims are born with a natural tendency to attack like a pit bull?

[DarrinS]

Those poor, beseiged Muslims. Why, they're as harmless as puppies. Why on Earth would anyone scrutinize them?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rorist_attacks


Estimated killed, Name, Country, City, Date

2,976 September 11, 2001 attacks United States New York City, NY,
Arlington, VA,
Shanksville, PA 2001
796 2007 Qahtaniya bombings Iraq Qahtaniya 2007
422 Cinema Rex fire Iran Abadan 1978
334 Beslan School Siege Russia Beslan 2004
329 Air India Flight 182 Atlantic Ocean, South of Ireland 1985
309 1983 Beirut barracks bombing Lebanon Beirut 1983
293 1999 Russian apartment bombings Russia Moscow 1999
270 Pan Am Flight 103 United Kingdom Lockerbie, Scotland 1988
257 1993 Mumbai bombings India Mumbai 1993
252 2001 Angola train attack Angola 2001
238 MV Dara Southwest Asia Persian Gulf 1961
237 1998 United States embassy bombings Kenya,
Tanzania Nairobi,
Dar es Salaam 1998
215 Sadr City bombings Iraq Sadr City 2006
209 Mumbai train bombings India Mumbai 2006
202 2002 Bali bombings Indonesia Bali 2002
198 April 18, 2007 Baghdad bombings Iraq Baghdad 2007
191 March 11, 2004 Madrid train bombings Spain Madrid 2004
178 Ashoura Massacre Iraq Kerbala and Baghdad 2004
175 2008 Mumbai attacks India Mumbai 2008
171 UTA Flight UT-772 Niger 1989
170 Moscow Theatre Siege Russia Moscow 2002
168 Oklahoma City bombing United States Oklahoma City 1995
155 25 October 2009 Baghdad bombings Iraq Baghdad 2009
152 2007 Tal Afar bombings and massacre Iraq Tal Afar 2007
150 St Nedelya Church assault Bulgaria Sofia 1925
148 Gyaneshwari Express train derailment India 2010
140 Budyonnovsk hospital hostage crisis Russia Budyonnovsk 1995
136 2007 Karachi bombing Pakistan Karachi 2007
135 February 3, 2007 Baghdad market bombing Iraq Baghdad 2007
130 Rafiganj train disaster India Rafiganj 2002
128 Xiamen Airlines Flight 8301 Guangzhou China 1990
127 8 December 2009 Baghdad bombings Iraq Baghdad 2009
127 2005 Al Hillah bombing Iraq Al Hillah 2005
125 Ethiopian Airlines Flight 961 Indian Ocean 1996
120 2007 Al Hillah bombings Iraq Al Hillah 2007
117 28 October 2009 Peshawar bombing Pakistan Peshawar 2009
117 2004 Irbil bombings Iraq Irbil 2004
116 2004 SuperFerry 14 bombing Philippines 2004
114+ 10 May 2010 Iraq attacks Iraq Baghdad 2010
112 2006 Digampathana bombing Sri Lanka Digampathana 2006
112 September 14, 2005 Baghdad bombing Iraq Baghdad 2005
112 Avianca Flight 203 Colombia 1989
112 Gulf Air Flight 771 United Arab Emirates Dubai 1983
110 10 October 2008 Orakzai bombing Pakistan Orakzai 2008
105 2010 Lakki Marwat suicide bombing Pakistan Lakki Marwat 2010
104 Mohmand Agency attack Pakistan Mohmand Agency 2010
102 First Tyre truck bombing attack Lebanon Tyre 1982
101 19 August 2009 Baghdad bombings Iraq Baghdad 2009
100+ 10 May 2010 Iraq attacks Iraq 2010
100 2008 Kandahar bombing Afghanistan Kandahar 2008
98 1 February 2008 Baghdad bombings Iraq Baghdad 2008
98 Musayyib fuel tanker bombing Iraq Musayyib 2005
91 King David Hotel bombing Mandatory Palestine Jerusalem 1946
90 Central Bank Bombing Sri Lanka Colombo 1996
90 2005 Sharm el-Sheikh attacks Egypt Sharm el-Sheikh 2005
89 Russian airplane bombings Russia Moscow 2004
88 TWA Flight 841 Ionian Sea 1974
88 22 January 2007 Baghdad bombings Iraq Baghdad 2007
98 May 2010 attacks on Ahmadi mosques in Lahore Pakistan Lahore 2010
86 AMIA Bombing Argentina Buenos Aires 1994
85 April 2010 Baghdad bombings Iraq Baghdad 2010
85 Buratha Mosque bombing Iraq Baghdad 2006
85 Stazione Centrale bombing Italy Bologna 1980
83 2002 Grozny truck bombing Russia Grozny 2002
83 Imam Ali Mosque bombing Iraq Najaf 2003
81 2008 Assam bombings India Assam 2008
80 Jaipur bombings India Jaipur 2008
80 1985 Beirut car bombing Lebanon Beirut 1985
76 February 12, 2007 Baghdad bombings Iraq Baghdad 2007
76 2010 Maoist attack in Dantewada India Dantewada, Chattisgarh 2010
75 2007 Baghlan sugar factory bombing Afghanistan Baghlan 2008
74 July 2010 Kampala attacks Uganda Kampala 2010
74 2005 Khanaqin bombings Iraq Khanaqin 2005
74 21 April 2004 Basra bombings Iraq Basra 2004
74 2004 Kufa s ing Iraq Kufa 2004
73 20 June 2009 Taza bombing Iraq Taza 2009
72+ March 2010 Lahore bombings Pakistan Lahore 2010
70+ July 2010 Baghdad attacks Iraq Baghdad 2010
70 2008 Wah bombing Pakistan Wah 2008
70 2007 Baghdad Mustansiriya University bombing Iraq Baghdad 2007
69+ 17 August 2010 Baghdad bombings Iraq Baghdad 2010
69 24 June 2009 Baghdad bombing Iraq Baghdad 2009
68 6 March 2008 Baghdad bombing Iraq Baghdad 2008
68 2007 Samjhauta Express bombings India 2007
68 2004 Baqubah bombing Baqubah Iraq 2004
67 19 December 2004 Karbala and Najaf bombings Iraq Karbala 2004
63 Luxor massacre Egypt Luxor 1997
63 February 18, 2007 Baghdad bombings Iraq Baghdad 2007
63 DAS Building bombing Colombia Bogotá 1989
63 Iraqi Airways Flight 163 Arar Saudi Arabia 1986
63 April 1983 US Embassy bombing Lebanon Beirut 1983
62 1999 Vladikavkaz bombing Russia Vladikavkaz 1999
62 July 1, 2006 Sadr City bombing Iraq Sadr City 2006
62 29 October 2005 Delhi bombings India Delhi 2005
62 24 June 2004 Mosul bombings Iraq Mosul 2004
60 2005 Amman bombings Jordan Amman 2005
60 EgyptAir Flight 648 Athens Greece 1985
60 Second Tyre truck bombing attack Lebanon Tyre 1983
59 2003 Znamenskoye suicide bombing Russia Znamenskoye 2003
58 6 April 2010 Baghdad bombings Iraq Baghdad 2010
58 April 2010 Kohat bombings Pakistan Kohat 2010
58 2008 Indian embassy bombing in Kabul Afghanistan Kabul 2008
58 1948 Ben Yehuda Street bombing Mandatory Palestine Jerusalem 1948
57 2003 Istanbul Bombings Turkey Istanbul 2003
56 2008 Ahmedabad bombings Pakistan Ahmedabad 2008
54 1 February 2010 Baghdad bombing Iraq Baghdad 2010
54 December 2009 Lahore attacks Pakistan Lahore 2009
54 Islamabad Marriott Hotel bombing Pakistan Islamabad 2008
53+ 25 August 2010 Iraq bombings Iraq Kut 2010
52 7 July 2005 London bombings United Kingdom London 2005
52 2003 Mumbai bombings India Mumbai 2003
51 2009 African Union base bombings in Mogadishu Somalia Mogadishu 2009
51 17 June 2008 Baghdad bombing Iraq Baghdad 2008
50 5 April 2010 Peshawar bombings Pakistan Peshawar 2010
50 July 2010 Lahore bombings Pakistan Lahore 2010
48 2009 Jamrud mosque bombing Pakistan Jamrud 2009
47 14 September 2004 Baghdad bombing Iraq Baghdad 2004
47 2008 Parachinar bombing Pakistan Parachinar 2008
46 2003 Stavropol train bombing Russia Stavropol 2003
46 2003 Casablanca bombings Morocco Casablanca 2003
44 Kaspiysk bombing Russia Kaspiysk 2002
43+ 7 August 2010 Basra attacks Iraq Basra 2010
43 2009 Pishin bombing Iran Pishin 2009
43 2009 Karachi bombing Pakistan Karachi 2009
43 2008 Issers bombing Algeria Issers 2008
42 April 4, 2010 Baghdad bombings Iraq Baghdad 2010
42 February 2004 Moscow metro bombing Russia Moscow 2004
41 30 September 2004 Baghdad bombing Iraq Baghdad 2004
41 25 January 2010 Baghdad bombings Iraq Baghdad 2010
41 December 11, 2007 Algiers bombings Algeria Algiers 2007
40 Nadahan wedding bombing Afghanistan Kandahar Province 2010
40 2010 Moscow Metro bombings Russia Moscow 2010
39 May 2010 Mogadishu bombings Somalia Mogadishu 2010
38 October 2009 Lahore attacks Pakistan Lahore 2009
38 December 2009 Rawalpindi attack Pakistan Rawalpindi 2009
38 2001 attack on Jammu and Kashmir legislative assembly India Srinagar 2001
38 Wall Street bombing United States New York City 1920
37 2006 Malegaon blasts India 2006
35+ 2010 Dantewada bus bombing India Dantewada 2010
35 27 October 2003 Baghdad bombings Iraq Baghdad 2003
35 November 2009 Rawalpindi bombing Pakistan Rawalpindi 2009
35 2009 Beledweyne bombing Somalia Beledweyne 2009
35 2009 Lahore bombing Pakistan Lahore 2009
35 September 2008 Peshawar bombing Pakistan Peshawar 2008
35 15 July 2008 Baquba bombings Iraq Baqubah 2008
35 Riyadh compound bombings Saudi Arabia Riyadh 2003
34 6 April 2009 Baghdad bombings Iraq Baghdad 2009
34 2004 Sinai bombings Egypt Taba,
Nuweiba 2004
33 Akshardham Temple attack India Gandhinagar 2002
33 December 2009 Dera Ghazi Khan bombing Pakistan Dera Ghazi Khan 2009
33 3 March 2010 Baqubah bombings Iraq Baqubah 2010
33 11 April 2007 Algiers bombings Algeria Algiers 2007
33 Pan Am Flight 110 Italy 1973
33 1998 Coimbatore bombings India Coimbatore 1998
33 Dublin and Monaghan Bombings Ireland Dublin,
Monaghan 1974
32 Muna hotel attack Somalia Mogadishu 2010
32 28 September 2008 Baghdad bombings Iraq Baghdad 2008
30 13 September 2008 Delhi bombings India Delhi 2008
30 February 2010 Khyber Mosque bombing Pakistan Khyber Agency 2010
30 Passover massacre Israel Netanya 2002
30 2007 Dellys bombing Algeria Dellys 2007
29 Omagh Bombing Northern Ireland Omagh 1998
28 2003 Nasiriyah bombing Iraq Nasiriyah 2003
28 2009 Nevsky Express bombing Russia Bologoye 2009
28 2006 Varanasi bombings India Varanasi 2006
27+ July 2010 Zahedan bombings Iran Zahedan 2010
27 1994 Baku Metro bombings Azerbaijan Baku 1994
25+ February 2010 Karachi bombings Pakistan Karachi 2010
25 2009 Nazran bombing Russia Nazran 2009
25 19 April 2010 Peshawar bombing Pakistan Peshawar 2010
23 2009 Pakistan Army General Headquarters attack Pakistan Punjab 2009
23 2006 Dahab bombings Egypt Dahab 2006
23 Shmuel HaNavi bus bombing Israel Jerusalem 2003
22 Rizal Day bombings Philippines Metro Manila 2000
22 2004 Khobar massacre Saudi Arabia Khobar 2004
22 2007 Batna bombing Algeria Batna 2007
22 2004 Forward Operating Base Marez bombing Iraq Mosul 2004
22 Canal Hotel bombing Iraq Baghdad 2003
22 Dizengoff Street bus bombing Israel Tel Aviv 1994
22 Beit Lid massacre Israel 1995
21 1987 Hipercor bombing Spain Barcelona 1987
21 Birmingham pub bombings United Kingdom Birmingham 1974
21 Dolphinarium discotheque suicide bombing Israel Tel Aviv 2001
21 Maxim restaurant suicide bombing Israel Haifa 2003
20+ Pan Am Flight 73 Pakistan Karachi 1986
20 2009 Zahedan explosion Iran Zahedan 2009
19 Rome and Vienna airport attacks Italy Rome 1985
19 USS Cole bombing Yemen Aden 2000
19 2003 Karbala bombings Iraq Karbala 2003
19 2008 American Embassy attack in Yemen Yemen Sana'a 2008
19 February 2010 Khyber bombing Pakistan Khyber 2010
19 Patt Junction Bus Bombing Israel Jerusalem 2002
18 1985 El Descanso bombing Spain Madrid 1985
18 2007 Zahedan bombings Iran Zahedan 2007
18 May 2010 Kabul bombing Afghanistan Kabul 2010
18 February 2010 Kabul attack Afghanistan Kabul 2010
17 Munich massacre Germany Munich 1972
17 2003 Jordanian embassy bombing in Baghdad Iraq Baghdad 2003
17 2009 Kabul Indian embassy attack Afghanistan Kabul 2009
17 2010 Pune bombing India Pune 2010
17 Haifa bus 37 suicide bombing Israel Haifa 2003
16 January 2010 Bajaur bombing Pakistan Bajaur 2010
15 Matza restaurant suicide bombing Israel Haifa 2002
15 Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing Israel Jerusalem 2001
14 Karkur junction suicide bombing Israel 2002
13 Fort Hood shooting United States Texas 2009
13 Sarin gas attack on the Tokyo subway Japan Tokyo 1995
13 2006 Moscow market bombing Russia Moscow 2006
13 Dizengoff Center suicide bombing Israel Tel Aviv 1996
13 2008 Beni Amrane bombings Algeria Beni Amrane 2008
12 Remembrance Day bombing Enniskillen United Kingdom 1987
12 M62 coach bombing United Kingdom Yorkshire 1974
12 December 2009 Lower Dir mosque bombing Pakistan Lower Dir 2009
12 2010 Kizlyar bombings Russia Kizlyar 2010
12 2008 Vladikavkaz bombing Russia Vladikavkaz 2008
11 2002 Zamboanga City bombings Philippines Zamboanga City 2002
11 Deal barracks bombing United Kingdom Deal 1989
11 Hyde Park and Regent's Park bombings United Kingdom London 1982
11 Café Moment bombing Israel Jerusalem 2002
11 Kiryat Menachem bus bombing Israel Jerusalem 2002
11 Jerusalem bus 19 suicide bombing Israel Jerusalem 2004
10 13 March 2003 Mumbai train bombing India Mumbai 2003
10 2007 attack on tourists in Yemen Yemen Mareb 2007
10 August 2004 Moscow metro bombing Russia Moscow 2004
10 February 2010 Lower Dir bombing Pakistan Lower Dir 2010
9 2007 Ankara bombing Turkey Ankara 2007
9 Camp Chapman attack Afghanistan Khost Province 2009
8 2006 Central Mindanao bombings Philippines Central Mindanao 2006
8 July 2009 Mindanao bombings Philippines Mindanao 2009
8 2008 Danish embassy bombing in Islamabad Pakistan Islamabad 2008
8 1995 Paris Metro bombing France Paris 1995
8 2009 attack on the Sri Lanka national cricket team Pakistan Lahore 2009
8 2010 Stavropol bomb blast Russia Stavropol 2010
8 2009 UN guest house attack in Kabul Afghanistan Kabul 2009
8 Mercaz HaRav massacre Israel Jerusalem 2008
7 1977 Moscow bombings Russia Moscow 1977
7 1972 Aldershot Bombing United Kingdom Aldershot 1972
6 Batasang Pambansa bombing Philippines Quezon City 2007
6 2009 International Islamic University bombing Pakistan Islamabad 2009
6 Harrods bombing United Kingdom London 1983
6 2003 Red Square bombing Russia Moscow 2003
6 1993 World Trade Center bombing United States New York City 1993

[clambake]

hey d, you think they'll catch the muslims that burned the mosque site in tennessee?

[DarrinS]

Don't call it 'Islamophobia'

http://www.nationalpost.com/call+Isl...245/story.html

Wow! The Washington Post is warning us about "rabble-rousing outsiders!" I don't think I've heard language like that since Southern segregationists complained about young civil-rights activists descending on Mississippi.

So who are these interlopers stirring up the unwashed masses? No need to guess: It's anyone who dares criticize plans for an Islamic centre near Ground Zero in Manhattan. According to Jason Horowitz, the author of a story on the front page of the Post's Style section, New Yorkers take a "dim view" of them.

Mr. Horowitz informs us that the planned Islamic centre has become "the prime target of national conservatives who, after years of disparaging New York as a hotbed of liberal activity, are defending New York against a mosque that will rise two city blocks from Ground Zero."

The hypocrisy! Have they no shame?

Mr. Horowitz also scored an interview with Ali Mohammed, who sells "falafel over rice" in the besieged neighbourhood, and who has "reached his saturation point." Opponents of the project, he says, "got nothing to do with New York and they don't care about New York. They are trying to create propaganda."

Yes, of course, this is a New York thing. Foreigners wouldn't understand. The terrorists who brought down the Twin Towers had a bone to pick with the Big Apple. That explains why Mr. Horowitz doesn't ask Mr. Mohammed who he thinks attacked us on 9/11, or what their ideology and goals were. Indeed, there is not a single sentence in his article relating to such matters.

If this Washington Post piece were exceptional, it would be unfair of me to give it such a tongue-lashing. But, as I've argued before, it's part of a pattern, a trend -- one that, despite criticism, continues to strengthen. A companion piece in the Post exclaims that the Islamic centre will contain "a Sept. 11 memorial," but never bothers to question what that memorial might say about the 9/11 attacks. Will they be described as an atrocity or merely a tragedy? Who will the memorial say was responsible, and on behalf of what belief system were they acting?

A New York Times piece on the controversy similarly avoids any uncomfortable questions. Its reading of recent history: "On top of the fear and confusion in New York about Islam after 9/11, a movement had begun to spring up against Muslims seeking a larger role in American public life." What movement would that be? Who leads it? Where do they meet? Shouldn't the Times -- the Times! -- include some attempt to substantiate the announcement of the birth of such a terrible "movement"?

Last week, I was a guest on To the Point, a radio show broadcast on public stations around the United States and moderated by Warren Olney, whom I consider both professional and fair. But, to my chagrin, he asked not a single question about Imam Rauf's beliefs, and when I tried to quote the cleric he cut me off, saying that was a distraction from the real issue. Which is what? Warren later told me he thinks it's "America's tradition of religious freedom." But I -- and most critics of this project --have never argued that Imam Rauf doesn't have a First Amendment right to build a mosque anywhere he owns property. I've argued that he should not be above scrutiny.

To some, that makes me an Islamophobe; and according to Time magazine, I have plenty of company. A cover story led "Is America Islamophobic?" asserts that "many opponents" of the Islamic centre "are motivated by deep-seated Islamophobia." Not a shred of evidence is offered, though Time does cite a poll that finds 46% of Americans believe Islam is more likely than other faiths to encourage violence against nonbelievers.

Goodness, why would anyone think that? Could it have something to do with the fact that there have been close to 16,000 terrorist attacks carried out in the name of Islam since 9/11? Just last month, Time had on its cover the photograph of an 18-year-old Afghan woman whose nose and ears were sliced off by members of the Taliban because she had violated Islamic religious law as they interpret it by "running away from her husband's house." The word "Taliban" means "the students." Students of what? Engineering? Dentistry? No. Of Islam.

Let's say it one more time loudly for the media moguls in the cheap seats: Most Muslims are not terrorists. But in the 21st century, most of those slaughtering women and children in the name of religion are Muslims. This is a movement. This is a reality. And it is a problem. It ought to be seen by Muslims as very much their problem -- a pathology within their community, within the "Muslim world," within the ummah.

Instead, the richest and most powerful Islamic organizations -- often financed by oil money from the Middle East -- incessantly play the victim card. Time encourages this grievance mentality (or tactic) by asserting that "to be a Muslim in America now is to endure slings and arrows against your faith -- not just in the schoolyard and the office but also outside your place of worship and in the public square, where some of the country's most powerful mainstream religious and political leaders unthinkingly (or worse, deliberately) conflate Islam with terrorism and savagery."

No, they don't. What they conflate with terrorism and savagery are al-Qaeda, the Taliban, Hezbollah, Hamas, Lashkar-e-Taiba, al-Shabaab, Abu Sayyef, Fatah Al-Islam, the Muslim Brotherhood and dozens of other groups that justify their terrorism and savagery based on their interpretation of Islamic doctrine.

Many of the country's religious and political leaders would like to hear more of their Muslim neighbours say plainly: "Not in my name! Not in the name of my religion!" They are distressed when they learn -- not through the mainstream media -- that Imam Rauf has said instead: "The United States has more Muslim blood on its hands than al-Qaeda."

He said that some time ago, when he was still answering questions from the media. In recent weeks, as a national controversy has swirled around the biggest project in which he has ever been involved, he has been " unavailable." Time does not criticize him for stonewalling as they would criticize any non-Muslim who declined comment for a cover story. Instead, Time excuses him, saying he seems to have been "stunned into paralysis" by the unfairness of it all.

Is this moral posturing or cowardice or self-delusion or the by-product of the multicultural ideological mush that so much of the media has been both eating and dishing out? Whatever the cause, they really have gone mad. Small wonder that the rabble is becoming roused -- with or without the help of those pesky outsiders.

[clambake]

tell us about dublin.