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Today's league is weaker than ever
I'm a hater for acknowledging the simple fact that today's league is stronger than 2006's.
Ok.
Today's league is weaker than ever
It's top heavy. The entire league isn't stronger. There's just as many poor teams as average ones. The comment wasn't just about what you said, it was in general.
About the only thing stronger in today's NBA than in 2006 is the Eastern Conference. Suns play in the Western conference... from 3-through-9, there's not a whole lot of difference. Suns will do just fine. Not that I'm happy about it. They finally have their own 1st and they go out and maintain average instead of starting the rebuild. Sucks...
Yep. The top got better, but the bottom got much worse...
In 2006 the worst teams in each conference were Portland (21 wins) and New York (23 wins). In 2010, Minnesota (15 wins) and New Jersey (12 wins).
In 2006 there were 5 teams total with fewer than 30 wins. In 2010, there were 10
Yes, there were more 50-win teams in 2010 then in 2006, so if this is what you want to rest your case on, then go ahead. HOWEVER, I've already explained how many of these same 50-win teams will fall off from that total - including Phoenix. Defections, injuries, coaching... the Western Conference is the Lakers conference with only three other teams being strong and San Antonio is old, Portland is a house of glass and Oklahoma City is young. Dallas didn't get any better, Utah lost depth and got slower, Denver has coaching and maturity issues, Phoenix lost Amare but added depth all over, Houston gets Yao back, but he's injury-likely, Memphis could shoot themselves before they win 40+ games again, and New Orleans is like Portland health-wise, but without real leadership, coaching, depth to survive.
It's not that I think everyone else is going to suck, it's just everyone is dismissing Phoenix without putting their moves into the proper Conference/NBA context.
The top of the league is better, the bottom is worse than ever, and many of the teams Phoenix was in line with last season got worse or got no better with no real threats from the lower tiers looking likely to make a 5/10-win jump to be a real threat. Houston is my only worry of that, but I'm not gonna worry until Yao is playing like an All-Star for 30+ games in a row.
Yes let's just ignore all those 50 win teams because the Wizards suck.
Phoenix falls off while Houston replaces them. So much for that argument.
IMHO, we don't need Yao until the playoffs
Last season doesn't say much about your premise.
The top now is light years better than in 2006. Which makes it a stronger league by definition.
Your logic doesn't add up when no team in 2006 even comes close to the 2010 Lakers. That instantly makes the West stronger even if you want to be a re and ignore the fact that there were more 50 win playoff teams.
Only the top 16 really define a season's strength anyway. And in 2010's case the rest of league was mostly dealing with injuries/tanking for Wall/clearing cap space for Lebron.
Looking at the bottom of the league is completely ing silly.
We didn't have a 7 ft Center. We just needed a big body at that position to stabilize the rest of the team. Last year, 42 wins with Hayes there, add a decent big body and they would have made the playoffs. What I'm saying is they should rest Yao for half the season, and play him down the stretch so he would be fresher for the playoffs, since it is apparent he can't ever play a full season again. That squad didn't have a full season, added Martin, Patterson, Hill, now let them mesh with Brooks, Lowry, Budinger, Ariza, Taylor, Scola ,Battier. We shall see, but we don't NEED Yao for the reg season
Also the Clippers making the playoffs and both teams that were in the finals bounced in the 1st round the following season is just more undeniable proof that 2006 was a laughing stock.
The top is stronger, the bottom is worse. Why the latter matters is Suns play the bottom six teams just as they play the top six.
The bottom being much, much worse contributes to teams like the Suns/Jazz maintaining a similar level of play despite their losses.
I've acknowledged the Suns are going to struggle against the top le-contending tier. But I'm not convinced upon extensive review of roster/skillsets that the Suns have taken so significant a step backwards that they'll "be lucky to win 40 games" or become "the New Jersey Nets of the West". Could they miss the playoffs? Sure. But I don't see any legit playoff contender from the 9-15 seeds in the West until I see Paul or Yao healthy and playing at a high level for an extended period of time.
If there's nobody from 9-15 challenging, that makes the Suns a playoff team.
Again, 45-50 wins and a likely 6th/7th seed with a high of 5th and a low of 8th. I acknowledge the loss of Amare, but have also addressed his absence. Half his FG attempts were jumpers, so replacing jumpers with jumpers isn't a big deal. He didn't rebound very well for his position, nor was a a good defender. It's not like they got worse in those latter two areas. They'll give up some size and inside scoring, but I've addressed how each can be gimmicked by the Suns to gain ground in the areas.
But nobody arguing with me is buying it. Fine. Like I said, I've watched plenty enough to know better.
You know for someone who got kicked off the clutchfans board you sure do blow a lot of hot air out of your ass. As far as zero cred goes lmao you cite the fact that I quoted Coldplay and try to relate that to basketball? You are a dumbass.
On a win scale maybe but not on a talent scale.
Not in the playoffs they don't.
It wasn't much, much worse. Compare a 26 win Bobcat 2006 team to the 26 win Kings/Warriors 2010 team. The latter has infinitely more talent.
The fact that the top is so much superior these days explains the lack of wins from the bottom to go along with the annual injury-tank excuse.
I don't really give a flying about the Suns or how many games they win next year. But a HedLOL/Warrick rotation plus the usual sprinkle of Nash will be legendary bad defensively. Good luck.
I don't relate it to basketball, I relate it to the fact that you are lame. The fact that you are a nuthugging Yaofan is what I related to bball
But if the "better talent" doesn't win, then I'm not sure how its better. The teams at the bottom of the League in 2010 were substantially worse, both in record and in number. Your point about tanking for Wall/clearing CAP for a mega free agent is a good idea, but with Miami hoarding the free agent talent and only one lottery team out of many getting Wall, that leave a ton of bad teams with lesser talents, if any.
Again, you need to win. Kings have young talent, but much of it is raw and unproven. Same with many of the worse-recorded clubs. Talent does not equal wins, especially when talent doesn't have leadership or coaching.It wasn't much, much worse. Compare a 26 win Bobcat 2006 team to the 26 win Kings/Warriors 2010 team. The latter has infinitely more talent.
The fact that the top is so much superior these days explains the lack of wins from the bottom to go along with the annual injury-tank excuse.
Sure, but they'll make enough shots to overcome this vs. the majority of the League. They can gimmick up their defense, forcing more perimeter jumpers through swarming doubles, these jumpers reduce the effectiveness of low-post players and slashers and create long rebounds, which reduces the effectiveness of positional rebounders. They won't be mistaken for a good defensive team or a good rebounding team, but they have enough size, length and athleticism on the perimeter to take advantage of long rebounds, which can ignite their fast break. I'm telling you, I've seen this show before. It's effective vs. most every team, but the top half-dozen or so.I don't really give a flying about the Suns or how many games they win next year. But a HedLOL/Warrick rotation plus the usual sprinkle of Nash will be legendary bad defensively. Good luck.
I never said they would do anything but be likely 1st-round fodder upon making the playoffs. My discussion has entirely been about their likelihood of making the playoffs. It's fair to say they won't. But saying they won't because Nash will get injured while saying Yao and Paul won't, or saying Amare was worth 40+ wins to the Suns is laughable. How can one expect one player with good health to all of sudden get injured but not expect such from two notoriously injured stars? How can one say that Amare 10 points per game in the paint is worth 40 wins? I know these weren't you, so don't take offense. I pointed out their faulty logic.Not in the playoffs they don't.
Suns have the depth to do a lot of damage to the poor-to-mediocre-to-average teams and enough to the above-average teams to make the playoffs. Beyond that, I don't even care 'cause I've seen this before.
These offseason moves have all but guaranteed 0-for-50, which is only a half a decade away. OH YAY! But we get to compete for the bottom half of the Western Conference Finals right now!!!
I'm not happy about this. I'd rather suck right now to collect a lottery pick. But the Suns won't suck. They'll be just good enough now to be bad later on.
Mind boggling, it is.
There are at least 5 teams that would win the le if transported back to 06....in 07 the Cavs got to the finals, have improved significantly every year since then, and still make annual 2nd round exits....the 8 seed Thunder last year would have wiped the floor with the 2006 seven-seed lakers....nuff said. Anybody thinks the league isn't stronger now than it was then, much less weaker, is a goddamn moron....no use arguing with that kind of stupidity....just tip my hat and walk away....chuckling.
Last edited by picc84; 08-07-2010 at 08:05 PM.
The League, as a whole, is not stronger. The top is stronger. Records bear this out. The bottom is much worse. Records bear this out. Thankfully, this isn't the NFL. The Suns, and every other middle-of-the-pack team, gets to play everybody, including some pretty bad teams at the bottom of the Western Conference. Was 2006 weak? Sure. Which is why my predictions merely have the Suns winning 45-50 games (a 4-9 game drop from 2006) and first-round fodder (a two series drop from 2006).
The 2006 Suns weren't the first perimeter oriented team to make the playoffs ( , the Suns history is built upon these type of teams), nor will this year's Suns be the last.
The league is about the same. In 2007 the league exploded. Now, guys that used to dominate are looking a retirement and taking nights off. The hungry are again the young players, not those in their prime. 2007-2009 was special. 2006 was just another season.
........
I think the Suns have a decent shot at being compe ive next season. They will probably make the playoffs because of their style and they do have capable scorers next to Nash who will probably continue to age finely. I am interested to see how they do without Stoudemire and to see if Warrick can somewhat fill his shoes. If Warrick ends up putting up like 17 and 7 then Amare really is ed.
This is the one thread in the NBA forum I actually wanted to participate in.
Basically, J-Mark is right, the Suns will sneak into the playoffs but it's not like he's happy about it. They play enough bad teams every year where they can win a jump shooting orgy and collect close to 50 wins doing so, but there's no chance if them surprising everyone like they did last year. The roster is just a jumbled mess full of a few promising young guys, Nash, and the sloppy seconds of other teams. Yeah, this roster, a good coach, a gimmicky system, and some Western teams that rely on injury prone players is enough to get the Suns into a 6-8 seed, but they'd be lucky if they are contending again by the end of the decade.
By all means though, I hope the Lakers fans in this thread are right. I hope they do suck fat . I hope they miss the playoffs. I hope they barely win 20 games. I hope Nash and Hill are demanding trades by the deadline. I hope it becomes apparent immediately how disastrous this off season was for them, and how clueless this Lon Babby got is. I hope Sarver is getting booed out of his own arena. I just know this team too well, and how they never immediately bottom out, they always make a slow painful process that makes rebuilding way harder than needed.
For the next 8 or so years, expect a 42-50 win team every year, then 1-2 years where they actually do bottom out as the Heat dynasty comes to an end, then 3 years where they actually are a contender but up things during the process. Then expect that cycle to repeat.
Son they will have so much fun this year
Hedo is excited to play for a team that actually welcomes players to show up to training camp fat and out of shape.
Dudley's gonna be able to pump his chest more too.
Watch what you say about Dudley. Dude's a stud.
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