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The Spurs didn't re-sign Roger Mason Jr. Therefore, they won't stand a chance against the Heat, Celtics and Lakers. Heck, without Roger Mason Jr, they can't even beat the Mavericks.
So, this is a spinoff of the Spurs contenders thread, but I didn't want this post to get buried in there and feel it deserves it's own thread because it should be controversial and I feel like dominating some Spurstalk posters. Anyways, here is what was responded to me in the other thread:
This'll be fun.
We will never get past the Lakers, huh? That is far from the truth, my friend. Let's look at potential problems for the Lakers:
1) Ron Artest. He could simply blow up at any given moment. He finally has a trophy. Now that the drive to win a championship is somewhat dampered, will he pay at the same level as he did in the Finals? He's also on the wrong side of 30.
2) Lamar Odom. Also on wrong side of 30. Played in Finals, then for national team, then gets right back at it with new NBA season. You have to wonder what all that wear and tear will do to him, not to mention he has to deal with that behemoth Khloe.
3) Kobe is old. For like 3-4 years, people have mentioned Duncan is too old this, too old that. o, people... Kobe is younger than Duncan but they have similar amount of NBA games on the odometer. At some point, he will no longer be able to give them 30 every night, even though in his mind he will think he can. When that time comes (might've already. 6-24, and broke down completely in March), the Lakers will struggle for awhile.
Now, let me give reasons why the Spurs should be optimistic about their chances at winning a le:
1) Our team has TP/Manu coming back off of injuries and should have a full year to get us a good playoff position so TD can rest down the stretch.
This is huge, because our terrible playoff positioning and TP being injured made us have to play Timmy in almost every game and alot of minutes in March and April. TD accordingly didn't play up to his hefty expectations in the playoffs, as he is still capable of. In the first half of the season, he was the best PF in the league, and it wasn't close. He just got tired and tendinitis crept up near the All-Star break and affected him the rest of the season.
2) Manu was a superstar in February-March.
Everyone saw it. He was the best SG in the league during this time, and only D-Wade was in the convo with him during this time frame. His broken nose obviously impacted his play a ton. He has a dropoff after the incident, and TP coming back obviously affected him a little too cause he became less of an initiator on offense. I love him in the Hedo-type role, and it's a reason I believe we can trade Parker, but that's another story.
3) Tony is healthy and in a contract year.
Another big one that everyone is overlooking. Parker is the engine that runs this machine. He didn't have enough time to develop chemistry with Blair/RJ due to an early injury, then his big injury near the end of the season. He now has a year of experience to look back on with those 2 so he can better work with them to make both parties better. He played with a 3 his entire career that just sat in the corner on offense, and now has an athletic swingman in RJ who can do alot of things in the open court and in iso situations, and also a backup big that is capable of running a devastating pick-n-roll with him. Once Tony utilizes these new toys effectively, plus gets himself touches, we will have a great offense.
4) The development of the young guys, particularly DeJuan Blair and George Hill.
Both players could potentially have breakout seasons. Blair is already one of the best rebounders in the league, and George looked like a potential star against Dallas. Both have a ton of upside, and I think Pop is going to give them alot more responsibility this upcoming season, as he should. I also love Garrett Temple personally as a backup-PG for us, but George needs those minutes because it looks like TP is more likely to leave than stay, and George will become the starting PG by next year.
5) Tiago Splitter.
We just got the best big man not playing in the NBA. I expect something modest this upcoming season, but I think we found our starting center for the next 6-8 years. If he's averaging 12/8/1 block, in April, it would be AWESOME. His comments about leaving skin on the floor showed me the type of passion and heart this guy has, and he should be a great addition to our team.
Celtics, and why we are capable of beating them:
1) They're old.
Spurs are no longer the old team in the NBA that everyone loves to bash because they don't have any youth and athleticism. That team is now the Celtics.
Celtics are old at every position except PG (he's a pretty good PG tho if you haven't heard of him). KG is washed up, both O'Neals are washed up, Allen showed signs of slipping last year and no one in the league would be surprised if Pierce took a step back.
2) Will Rondo have anything left in the tank if they somehow get past the Heat in ECF?
Rondo has played basketball non-stop for 11 months and counting, and the upcoming season is right around the corner. When a player plays this long, durability and wear tear become an issue. Rondo is going to have to carry the Celtics for large chunks of the season. Will he be able to do that and them still perform at a high level in June of next year, which at that point he will have played for almost 20 months straight? My prediction: No. And in that case, a healthy Parker has an edge against him.
3) Spurs have more talent.
If you HAD to win a game in Junel, who would you take if your life depended on it? The Celtics top 5 players or the Spurs top 5 players?
Spurs obviously have more talent 6-12, so don't worry about that.
Let's go through each position.
At PG, it's Rondo > Parker it Rondo has the edge, but Parker is capable of outplaying Rondo because he has the quickness, plus a jumper. They way Rondo played against Orlando, though... I cannot pick against him.
At SG, it's Manu>>>Ray Allen, and it's not close
At SF, it's Pierce>>but RJ is capable of defending him, and Pierce looks to be losing a step.
At PF, it's Duncan>>>KG, and it's not close.
At center, it's a tossup because we don't know what Tiago will bring. If I had to guess though, I'd put my money on the Spurs (Tiago) being better in June than Shaq/Jermaine/Kendrick. All 3 have a bunch of issues.
And finally, how do we beat the Heat, the presumed favorites?
1) Experience
Simply put, we've been together longer and our core has won 3 championships. Lebron, quite simply, looked pitiful in last season's playoffs, and we absolutely spanked him in the '07 Finals. What we did to him really has no bearing on our prospects of slowing him down now, cause he is much better now and we don't have Bowen, but just felt like adding it in there. Anyways, I'm confident that we know exactly what to do in all playoff situations, whereas the Heat have a ton of unknown territory to explore.
2) We're better at 3 positions
PG, PF, and C. We have a massive advantage at PG if Tony returns to 08 form. At PF, Duncan cancels out Bosh on offense and is much better defensively. At center, the Heat are starting either Big Z or Joel Anthony. Any team in the NBA has an advantage at center over that (don't hold me to that). Udonis isn't a center, and if they start him there it will be funny.
3) Manu is capable of canceling out D-Wade for a couple games, and even capable of outplaying him once or twice.
Obviously D-Wade is a superstar and is a better player than Manu. But Manu is one of the best compe ors to ever play in the NBA, and there will be nights where Manu amazes us like he always does. Overall though, D-Wade is just simply a better player.
4) Lebron, with D-Wade on his team, will not be as big of a factor. Plus, RJ/Hill can do at least a mediocre job guarding him.
First, Lebron will average at least 26-8-8 against us minimum in any series, so I just wanna say that so that what I say has some perspective. Lebron will crush RJ in a game or two in any potential series, but I think LBJ will be deferring to D-Wade overall, which makes us capable of sticking RJ on him and not getting slaughtered by him. I also think George has the ability to play LBJ straight up for stretches. Again, Lebron will still get lofty numbers, but I think D-Wade is option #1 on that team, and Manu is capable of matching him on certain nights.
Lemme know what you guys think.
Last edited by chazley; 09-07-2010 at 09:07 AM.
The Spurs didn't re-sign Roger Mason Jr. Therefore, they won't stand a chance against the Heat, Celtics and Lakers. Heck, without Roger Mason Jr, they can't even beat the Mavericks.
I'll say this here, cause it's something that is likely to get mentioned...
The official strategy for beating the Miami Heat is to find a willing suitor to hook up with Bron's momma... They would have beat the Celtics last year if not for Delonte's bad timing (and its subsequent effect on LeBron's performance).
I guess maybe that's why the Celtics signed Delonte West to a second stint...
Just for all purposes of this thread, I must break the tradition of having more posts than chazley in his own thread, which by all means, is very difficult to accomplish, so I am going to start early.
so this is true chaz is not RMJ
chazley's sig also proves nothing except that he is an extremely annoying butthurt insecure grey-named Spur fan who thinks Manu = D.Wade for a game or 2.
It's okay though since there are posters posting Manu > Dirk anyway.
Anyway, he is also the same idiot who thinks George Hill has the ability to even stay in front of LeBron James for a second or so on defense.
The Manu Ginobili was a superstar in February and March was also pulled out. I guess being a superstar in February and March is a very big thing nowadays.
Also, if this number 1 attention seeking poster starts a new thread every time someone responded to his crap, the entire forum would be filled up with his absolutely ty Express News-like takes.
You probably weren't watching much B-ball in February or March of this year or were you?
Manu can take over games, and have the same impact as D-Wade or Kobe in those moments...
Most here admit that the latter two are better players than Manu... but you would be ignorant to history to claim that Manu wasn't capable of outplaying them...
I love your confidence, but am still only thinking of the Lakers at this point. (And the Heat match ups are scary, until we see how they actually perform this year.)
I hate Garnet, and I do think he has declined, but every year Timmy and him put up pretty similar stats. I think Tim is the better player, but Duncan vs. Garnet comparison is closer than you state.
Throw in that the Celtics just have big front line that will wear on any team. If the Spurs get by the Lakers and the play the Celtics, it would be brutal on Tiago. Just a lot of big bodies to bang with.
Can you read every of my posts? Do you actually believe Manu can sustain that against top teams in the playoffs? For the sake of this discussion, LeBron James was the man who destroyed Hollinger's calculator by playing like the best to ever play in the 2009 playoffs while Dwyane Wade put on one of the most unbelievable performances in the 2006 finals. And they have all gotten better.
There is no way anyone can say that Manu Ginobili can match the production of the reigning 2 time MVP for a series who hasn't reached his prime and a prime Dwyane wade who happens to be the best SG in the league.
Both these players play better in the playoffs and now they are together to increase their efficiency. Manu Ginobili isn't going to be able to match any one of them.
The Spurs have black holes named RJ and Bonner playing substantial minutes.
Splitter has much to learn about playing in the NBA and the Spurs system.
Manu, even when young, could not play big minutes. TD with his bad knees cannot last the whole season anymore. I wish we could put Manu on ice (not play them at all) until Jan/Feb and TD - until after the ASB (Manu takes longer to thaw out).
The Spurs don't have the size, length or toughness to beat the Lakers or Celtics in a 7-game series.
Oh, and this is the same bull that has players facing off in a 1 on 1 match. Did the NBA implement a 1 on 1 match? I thought it was always 5 on 5. This ty Allanon-like takes on the Pau Gasol > LaMarcus Aldridge and then LeBron James > Matt Barnes crap really decides who is going to win a 7 game series.
I feel that my response towards Phenomanul deserves its own thread as it is extremely controversial, I think I should start a new thread about it. What should I call it? I am afraid it might get buried amongst all the other crap other posters have been ting out. Maybe this will do.
"Why LeBron James and Dwyane Wade are way better than Manu Ginobili"
Then I shall write my arguments that usually don't make any sense and start off with a butthurt response about dominating posters. Of course, I would get the raving reviews.
funny how a well-rested pau gasol was ignored.
It all Sounds Good and I do Hope it all Happens.... But In All Honesty, I Think We Cannot get by the lakers Unless Pau or kobe get injured....
Log back into Chieflion imo
I don't need posters to blow my cover like how they blew chazley's cover for being Roger Mason Jr.
Anyway, I want to see the first account bearing a Memphis Grizzlies bold name. And I must be the majority shareholder of this thread too.
Ummmm... I don't believe I ever claimed that Ginobili would outplay both Lebron and Wade... In fact I didn't even mention Lebron in my earlier response... That said, let's not forget that Manu has also outplayed him on at least two occasions (not including any Finals games from 2007 - which were more Parker's doing). He outplayed Lebron this year at San Antonio (I was there)... (during that same stretch I mentioned earlier)... and back in 2008 when he dropped 46 points on Lebron's Cavs in Cleveland... IIRC Manu shot 75% from the floor and dropped 3 point bombs from everywhere... LeBron switched on him to no avail...
As I suspected you're just saying what you're supposed to say... because you like most casual NBA fans only see what BSPN feeds you...
Fact of the matter is that Manu's "Super Manu" mode makes him as dangerous as any basketball player in the world... And even though I'd be the first to admit that SuperManu games will be rarerer from this point forward, suggesting that Manu isn't capable of such jaw-dropping performances would be an outright lie...
Don't count your chickens before they hatch...
Both Lebron and Dwayne are ball dominant players... obviously both are elite players and they will undoubtibly hook up for awesome alley-oops and the such...
That said, a boost in their efficiency isn't a surefire thing... In fact, I'm going to go out on a limb and venture to say that both of them will average more turnovers than they averaged last year... though equally expecting an increase in their assists per game...
No, but we are talking about players capable of taking over games... Matt Barnes and LaMarcus Aldridge are players that have no merit being that discussion...
Manu on the other hand, has done it many a times, and will do it again...
Now go and crawl back into your troll cave...
Suddenly, 2008 Manu Ginobili comes into the picture. WTF does a 2008 Manu Ginobili have to do with 2011 LeBron James or 2011 Manu Ginobili?
Suddenly, 2 ball dominant players are going to average more turnovers because they are playing with each other. What a joke.
And the premise of the entire argument was on a 7 game series where Wade would constantly outplay Ginobili with no offense to Ginobili, nothing to do with a regular season game.
LMAO BSPN. You seriously believe I watch their broadcasts? At least I am not in delusion like Manu > Dirk camp and now Manu = Wade for a few days camp. That is like telling the world I may win the lottery one day. That's so stupid.
Because that was what the OP's idea meant, right?Do you know how to comprehend? Why do you think everything has to do with Manu Ginobili?
Chazley,
I agree with almost nothing you said but I certainly admire your fervor for basketball discussion. Only time can prove me right in your eyes (and maybe not even then) so we'll just have to see how the Spurs fare. I predict conference finals and then a 4-2 loss to the Lakers.
Back in the 90s, I was the same way with the Spurs. I always thought the Spurs were in the running when in reality they never were. It was always something - if Chuck Person shoots 42% from 3 and loses weight, if Charles Smith can get 10 rebounds, if Corey Alexander develops, if Sean Elliott could hit more free throws... all the close games were if this or that happened. I also thought all the Spurs were better than they were. In my mind, almost none of the Spurs were even tradeable. The truth was they were a pretender in the 90s. They were very good but never on the verge of winning a le. I just couldn't see it.
This team is seriously lacking in the talent department. They're a decent unit and they stretch the talent they do have a long ways but the Spurs have no aces left.
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