Spurs vs. top contenders, and why they have a chance.

[Phenomanul]

Suddenly, 2008 Manu Ginobili comes into the picture. WTF does a 2008 Manu Ginobili have to do with 2011 LeBron James or 2011 Manu Ginobili?

Why fail to mention the game just this year?

Ginobili ripped the Cavs apart. Playing without Parker no less...

And if we're strictly talking hypotheticals, Lebron and D-Wade have yet to play a single game as NBA teammates...

They have played together in All-Star games and for Team USA... which brings me to my next point...

Suddenly, 2 ball dominant players are going to average more turnovers because they are playing with each other. What a joke.

The only data points we have with these two players as teammates... they both had an excessive amount of turnovers...

their per minute turnover rate was 3 standard deviations higher than where they normally average... fluke or not, don't expect them to gel immediately... or flawlessly...

Your simpleminded takes are weak.

And the premise of the entire argument was on a 7 game series where Wade would constantly outplay Ginobili with no offense to Ginobili, nothing to do with a regular season game.

No offense to Ginobili?

I figure you're assuming he falls asleep in the playoffs? ceases to play? Doesn't care to?

LOL

What a biased take... again weak. About as weak as that crunch-time layup Wade tried to score only to have it swatted out by Ginobili...

LMAO BSPN. You seriously believe I watch their broadcasts? At least I am not in delusion like Manu > Dirk camp and now Manu = Wade for a few days camp. That is like telling the world I may win the lottery one day. That's so stupid.

I think you should learn how to read before you spout your nonsense...

I've repeatedly stated that Wade was a better player than Manu... Nevertheless I will hold to the argument that Ginobili is capable of outplaying Wade on any given night despite that distinction. Apparently, you are unable to differentiate the context for either argument. That is why you fail...

[Phenomanul]

Oh... and find another way to up your post count... troll turd.

[O.J Mayo]

Once again, we have Phenomanul stating his obvious opinion that Dwyane Wade is better than Manu Ginobili and that a player can outplay another on any given night while completely ignoring that Manu Ginobili is already out of his prime while Wade is in his and that Wade is way more likely to outplay Manu Ginobili which matters in OP's ty opinion that the Spurs would win a 7 game series against the Miami Heat. What a in great argument. You certainly convinced me right there. So that is a biased and weak take?

How about taking out words out of thin air and stating that I am saying things such as Manu does not show up in the playoffs. I need to remind you that I am not ducks. It is fact that Dwyane Wade and LeBron James both have brought their games up to a ridiculously high level in their playoff runs and not strike hot for only a few games and then playing at their normal level again.

Here we go with the "Your opinion is weak" crap because I disagree with you only because a player's shot has been blocked by Manu Ginobili. Marcin Gortat is better than LeBron James because he blocked his shot. Great example to show why your opinion is better than mine of course, since you don't listen to BSPN and apparently I do, according to you, of course.

And again, saying that Manu Ginobili can outplay Dwyane Wade in any given day is like saying that Adam Morrison is a starting calibre player if he is hot from 3. Yes, it is possible but not likely, so how does that make a strong argument for the Spurs beating the Heat in a 7 game series?

[Galileo]

This was an excellent write-up. I agree.

[fantasyfootball]

There should be factions of Spurs/Basketball fans

ptac vs. ptas

PTAC is for people that believe the Spurs are contenders

PTAS is for people that believe the Spurs have no shot

[Phenomanul]

Once again, we have Phenomanul stating his obvious opinion that Dwyane Wade is better than Manu Ginobili and that a player can outplay another on any given night while completely ignoring that Manu Ginobili is already out of his prime while Wade is in his. So that is a biased and weak take?

How about taking out words out of thin air and stating that I am saying things such as Manu does not show up in the playoffs. I need to remind you that I am not ducks. It is fact that Dwyane Wade and LeBron James both have brought their games up to a ridiculously high level in their playoff runs and not strike hot for only a few games and then playing at their normal level again.

Here we go with the "Your opinion is weak" crap because I disagree with you only because a player's shot has been blocked by Manu Ginobili. Marcin Gortat is better than LeBron James because he blocked his shot. Great example to show why your opinion is better than mine of course, since you don't listen to BSPN and apparently I do, according to you, of course.

And again, saying that Manu Ginobili can outplay Dwyane Wade in any given day is like saying that Adam Morrison is a starting calibre player if he is hot from 3. Yes, it is possible but not likely, so how does that make a strong argument for the Spurs beating the Heat in a 7 game series?

All I'm saying is that you are vastly speculating on the 'greatness' of a team that's yet to hit the hardwood... We've yet to see the Heat this year... yet you are slamming me for trying to extrapolate the level of our player's game (Manu) from the context of games played as recently as this season...

In other words... Either both are false premises... or both are true... you can't slam me for speculating when you've been doing that since you entered the thread... comprende?

Disagreement? Please...

[O.J Mayo]

All I'm saying is that you are vastly speculating on the 'greatness' of a team that's yet to hit the hardwood... We've yet to see the Heat this year... yet you are slamming me for trying to extrapolate the level of our player's game (Manu) from the context of games played as recently as this season...

In other words... Either both are false premises... or both are true... you can't slam me for speculating when you've been doing that since you entered the thread... comprende?

Disagreement? Please...

You mean I should stop speculating in a thread where everything from the OP is speculation?

[Phenomanul]

You mean I should stop speculating in a thread where everything is speculation?

No... speculate at will... just don't slam others for doing so considering the gist of all your arguments are by very definition SPECULATIVE.

[O.J Mayo]

No... speculate at will... just don't slam others for doing so considering the gist of all your arguments are by very definition SPECULATIVE.

You mean I should stop trying to copy the OP and post everything which is speculation and then slam people for it? That is what the OP has done ever since he entered Spurstalk.

[Phenomanul]

I don't care about Chazly or the opening post. You quoted my post, and I countered.... So here we are.

Manu is capable of outplaying Wade this upcoming season. True or False?

Me: True

You: Well... technically yes, but Wade is a better than Manu and Manu is past his prime, and Wade will be more efficient playing with 'Bron Bron... so False.. (though technically yes it can happen).

[2Cleva]

"If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we’d all have a merry Christmas”

[O.J Mayo]

I don't care about Chazly or the opening post. You quoted my post, and I countered.... So here we are.

Manu is capable of outplaying Wade this upcoming season. True or False?

Me: True

You: Well... technically yes, but Wade is a better than Manu and Manu is past his prime, and Wade will be more efficient playing with 'Bron Bron... so False.. (though technically yes it can happen).

Go back to the first page, you quoted me first therefore you have to argue my premise.

[21_Blessings]

1) Ron Artest. He could simply blow up at any given moment. He finally has a trophy. Now that the drive to win a championship is somewhat dampered, will he pay at the same level as he did in the Finals? He's also on the wrong side of 30.

Ron Artest blowing up at this point in his career is as likely as Duncan playing for the 2012 USA Olympic basketball team.

Also Duncan is older than Artest.

2) Lamar Odom. Also on wrong side of 30. Played in Finals, then for national team, then gets right back at it with new NBA season. You have to wonder what all that wear and tear will do to him, not to mention he has to deal with that behemoth Khloe.

He's a ing bench player. The Spurs have much bigger worries.

Duncan also older than Lamar Odom.

3) Kobe is old. For like 3-4 years, people have mentioned Duncan is too old this, too old that. o, people... Kobe is younger than Duncan but they have similar amount of NBA games on the odometer. At some point, he will no longer be able to give them 30 every night, even though in his mind he will think he can. When that time comes (might've already. 6-24, and broke down completely in March), the Lakers will struggle for awhile.

Yes Duncan is older than Kobe. Duncan was also eliminated in 4 games by a terrible defensive team while Kobe was winning back to back Finals MVPs.

[Mel_13]

lol at the insecure Laker Fan providing the detailed rebuttal to a troll's post.

[21_Blessings]

Yes I know my rebuttal to that super long ass troll OP was very detailed.

[benefactor]

Once again...didn't read past the first sentence. Obvious attention is obvious.

[chazley]

I'm just enjoying watching O.J. Mayo get annihilated by phenomanul. My OP just seeps greatness, so there's no need for me to respond to any of these subpar attempts at responses yet. I will eventually though.

[Ace]

And finally, how do we beat the Heat, the presumed favorites?

1) Experience

Simply put, we've been together longer and our core has won 3 championships. Lebron, quite simply, looked pitiful in last season's playoffs, and we absolutely spanked him in the '07 Finals. What we did to him really has no bearing on our prospects of slowing him down now, cause he is much better now and we don't have Bowen, but just felt like adding it in there . Anyways, I'm confident that we know exactly what to do in all playoff situations, whereas the Heat have a ton of unknown territory to explore.

2) We're better at 3 positions

PG, PF, and C. We have a massive advantage at PG if Tony returns to 08 form. At PF, Duncan cancels out Bosh on offense and is much better defensively. At center, the Heat are starting either Big Z or Joel Anthony. Any team in the NBA has an advantage at center over that (don't hold me to that). Udonis isn't a center, and if they start him there it will be funny.

3) Manu is capable of canceling out D-Wade for a couple games, and even capable of outplaying him once or twice.

Obviously D-Wade is a superstar and is a better player than Manu. But Manu is one of the best compe ors to ever play in the NBA, and there will be nights where Manu amazes us like he always does. Overall though, D-Wade is just simply a better player.

4) Lebron, with D-Wade on his team, will not be as big of a factor. Plus, RJ/Hill can do at least a mediocre job guarding him.

First, Lebron will average at least 26-8-8 against us minimum in any series, so I just wanna say that so that what I say has some perspective. Lebron will crush RJ in a game or two in any potential series, but I think LBJ will be deferring to D-Wade overall, which makes us capable of sticking RJ on him and not getting slaughtered by him. I also think George has the ability to play LBJ straight up for stretches. Again, Lebron will still get lofty numbers, but I think D-Wade is option #1 on that team, and Manu is capable of matching him on certain nights.


Lemme know what you guys think.

Wow what a horribly delusional post. Manu out playing Wade and shutting him down? Hill/RJ guarding Lebron? Sorry but even looking at that match-up optimistically they just don't have much a chance.

[Ace]

I got trolled

[chazley]

Wow what a horribly delusional post. Manu out playing Wade and shutting him down? Hill/RJ guarding Lebron? Sorry but even looking at that match-up optimistically they just don't have much a chance.

That's not what I said. I never said once that Manu would shut down Wade. I said he is capable of being on his level for 1-3 games in a playoff series. I also said RJ/Hill are capable of being mediocre defenders against LBJ, while also saying minimum he would average against the Spurs is 26/8/8.

How about TP vs. Carlos Arroyo? How about our far superior bench? We have advantages in other places. Let's see how much Wade/LBJ have left in the tank playing 42 minutes a night

[chazley]

Can you read every of my posts? Do you actually believe Manu can sustain that against top teams in the playoffs? For the sake of this discussion, LeBron James was the man who destroyed Hollinger's calculator by playing like the best to ever play in the 2009 playoffs while Dwyane Wade put on one of the most unbelievable performances in the 2006 finals. And they have all gotten better.

There is no way anyone can say that Manu Ginobili can match the production of the reigning 2 time MVP for a series who hasn't reached his prime and a prime Dwyane wade who happens to be the best SG in the league.

Both these players play better in the playoffs and now they are together to increase their efficiency. Manu Ginobili isn't going to be able to match any one of them.

Manu did what he did in February-March against almost exclusively the top teams. If anything, it just shows he will indeed show up big time in the spotlight.

I'd argue that we have not seen that '06 Finals D-Wade again. What he did in that Finals was the most amazing display of greatness I have ever seen.

Also, LBJ and D-Wade playing together might hurt their individual efficiency. Just depends on how you define 'efficiency' in basketball terms.

[Leonard Curse]

well i can say manu single handedly beat the orlando magic when they were on a ridiculous streak and this was without parker and tim duncan playing horrible if i remember correctly he also destroyed clev and the lakers i believe so i do think he has alot of game in him hes like steve nash in a way, IM NOT SAYING HES BETTER THAN D WADE i am saying he is still able to carry this team through some very tough teams, and i think what has been killing us is our role players and our coachs decisions illsay it right now coach pop has turned into a freaking stubborn old man and if he doesnt get back to coaching & teaching/encouraging mental and physical toughness than were ed if pop pulls his small ball line up this year we should really consider replacing him he just doesnt look like he has that fire to get rings esp last year

[Man In Black]

Wow what a horribly delusional post. Manu out playing Wade and shutting him down? Hill/RJ guarding Lebron? Sorry but even looking at that match-up optimistically they just don't have much a chance.

Manu has pretty much scoreboard-owned DWade throughout all their games played against each other.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthre...96#post4617696

[Ginobilirules]

first off manu rules over wade' he does things that dwayne could never do wade is very good but manu is elite and has been winning on all levels with 3 rings and was a huge part each of those rings . wade only has 1 ring and has never won on every level like manu has. dont be blind to the fact that [manu is much better than wade.] manu is elite superstar wade is good but over rated and selfish unlike manu. manu rips wade apart when head to head'' i see this all the time. SO WAKEUP IDIOTS'' GINOBILI IS MUCH BETTER THAN WADE.

[Ace]

Manu has pretty much scoreboard-owned DWade throughout all their games played against each other.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthre...96#post4617696

Manu wasn't the focus of a great defensive team, he also had a great PF and a top PG by his side. As far as rings go Wade won as number one option and turned a series around with one of the greatest finals performances.

All which is irrelevant at this point because the Spurs are not the team they were in the past and Manu is not the player he once was. At this point Wade is the better player and only a homer holding on to the past would say otherwise.