How predictably unoriginal... your m.o. would work if I actually cared... that's what's so funny about it... And lest you forget, I didn't quote you. You quoted me. You've got a thing for me... just admit it.
I'd hate to break it to ya... but I don't swing that way. I could give you a list of Biblical explanations why that is so... but that would just ruffle up your feathers some more...
I think it's funny how leetonidas is so pissed off that people are religious. "religion " LOL
You're one pissed off person.
You get so pissed when the religious side wants to say what they believe. But you can't PROVE God DOESN'T exist. You act like you can, and you sure are treating Hawking as your God.
STFU. Don't even put your name in the same sentence as Honest Abe!!!
crofl tbh the funniest thing about Leetonidas is that he'll always wait for a smarter atheist (like redzero) to get into the argument and then he'll just basically cheer that guy on while throwing insults at religious people. He doesn't have the ability to put up an intellectual argument so he lets someone else do the work and then jumps in.
of course you care. Thats why you keep trying to justify your bumping a thread that's a buzzkill for you.
that's what's so funny about it...
lol
Na, no matter who would be posting in a thread they consider to be a buzzkill, I would call out that idiot.And lest you forget, I didn't quote you. You quoted me. You've got a thing for me... just admit it.
The idiot just happens to be you this time.
so now you are phobic because the Bible tells you so.I'd hate to break it to ya... but I don't swing that way. I could give you a list of Biblical explanations why that is so... but that would just ruffle up your feathers some more...
Jesus was the "single" guy hanging out with 12 other single dudes all the time. He also had the power to score with any chick in the village, but didn't.
you do the math.
that didn't take long to pop up again.
It's just an obnoxious argument that can be thrown out by either side.
As has been stated multiple times in this thread, one side has the burden of proof, so if lack of proof that disproves the existence of God is sufficient, then theists should also believe in every other deity.
This is patently incorrect. Monotheists and theists are not the same (though your arguments tend to work better when you lump Christians into simple categories, I know). Christians are monotheists, technically, therefore they do not have to believe in every other deity simply because the existence of one God cannot be empirically proven or disproven.
There is no "burden of proof." As has been stated ad nauseum in this thread, the issue at the end of the day is faith.
Lastly, good grief some of y'all have a ton of time on your hands--you've been here all day for crying out loud, redzero, damn. Is winning a message board argument really that important to you? Sad.
How big of a burden of proof is there if the entire basis of a religious person's belief structure is faith, which needs no proof? You're waiting for something that isn't going to happen, redzero.
I agree that as far as proselytizing somebody who demands proof, proof is then necessary... but you seem to be demanding proof of people who are only stating their beliefs.
Redzero - if you're trying to say something doesn't exist and insist on evidence of the contrary, you're responsible for providing evidence that backs up your statement.
Both sides can never win a "Does God exist" argument. Period. Anyone who thinks this will ever go anywhere is wasting their time. Everyone ends up getting pissed off at each other (as seen all over this thread) and it's just the same repe ive sentiment from both sides.
Anyways - agree to disagree. No reason to hate anyone who disagrees with you on religion. That goes for Christians and Atheists. For me, I'd consider myself more an Agnostic Theist so I can see where both sides come from.
So,everyone ITT tbh
I do not say that God doesn't exist; I don't believe that God exists, so the one who is making the claim that he exists requires the burden of proof.
And if a theist's best defense is to claim that the existence of God cannot be disproven, they don't really have a reason to not believe in all the other gods, too.
I have yet to see a reason why someone should accept an extraordinary claim without any extraordinary evidence.
Faith is just an excuse for believing in something for no logical reason. You know it, I know, and everybody else knows it.
I never thought I would see an atheist argue for absolute truth.
I'm not arguing for absolute truth. Absolute truth is pointless.
Sorry my mistake so if truth is not absolute or relative then what is it?
The answer.
God has not been proven to exist, thus as a scientist its hard to conjecture the existence of a God. Believing in God is just faith, nothing more, nothing less. If someone is to say that God is an en y that is real by proof of evidence, they are plain ignorant to the science behind whatever it is. You can name thousands and thousands and thousands of publications that have been written in the field of astrochemistry, astrophysics, and any other "hard" science tbh, and you won't find a single person who speaks of an unknown variable as being inevitably and completely unknown. Subsequent publications answer questions that were priorly stated--furthering our understanding of a certain phenomenon. Science is insoluble to the conduits of religion (or relationship with a deity), which is why I find this argument and the basis of it useless. It's pointless if one knows (redzero) that something isn't true, yet one continues to attack that foundation of faith. People who hold strong beliefs won't ever allow their faith to elude them, it's a basic concept redzero. You can spend a whole lifetime trying to persuade others using logic, reasoning, and science for the sake of disproving the existence of God... you can purposely kill someone medically by heart induced failure, increase electrical resistance in the body, allow residual flow of electricity to travel in the body--eventually reaching the heart for reviving purposes, and ask the one who participated in the activity the question that drives your ignorance/curiosity (which ever it may be), does God exist?
And still, you wouldn't get a credible answer, because it's not you who knows and feels. It's those who have faith, that walk by it, and not by sight.
Faith is in general the persuasion of the mind that a certain statement is true. It is the belief and the assent of the mind to the truth of what is declared, based on the declarer's authority and truthfulness. (Admittedly quoted from wikipedia, but it serves my purpose).
The sad part about religion is that the bible was written by man..... Unquestionably, undoubtedly.... So.... The real question is.... Do you have faith in the man that wrote the story book thats based off of countless religions before it as being the correct assessment of religion?
What makes that 2000+ year old man/men more correct than the man that started this whole debate thread? (Stephen Hawking). Just because a book is over 2000 years old doesnt make it factual as Christians (or any other religion with any other book) would like to believe it is.
I've used this before in my following arguement and still have not recieved a thoughfull answer....
Lets say we are 100 to 1000 years in the future (take your pick, doesnt matter)... Mankind has been decimated and only a few thousand humans survive in the entire world.... A few hundred years later (after whatever cataclysm struck) a human finds an old book of "Harry Potter".... They inturprit it as a "bible".... Are they wrong in doing so?
Take that same analogy and apply it to today... What about the Aboriginies in Australia or the countless undiscovered tribes in South Africa and South America? Are they damned as well because they have no concept of your religion?
Im not defending Hawking.... I think he is overratted as a scientist and is a quack looking for attention at this point. He wants to be remembered as the Einstein of our age so he spews whatever he can to attain that goal.
That doesnt change the fact that his theories have revolutionized and advanced our thinking of the universe from what it was even just 10 years ago.
All I ask is, set aside your faith for a few minutes and really contemplate what religion really means outside of your little circle of belief.... Question it... Really.... What does happen to those people that dont find your particular belief??? Do you label them evil because the "word" of your sermon hasnt reached them? Are they automatically condemned because they are ignorant to the supposed "fact" of your own God even though they live a harmonious life thats closer to the earth than you will ever be?
Sorry, if you are honest with yourself, you will see that religion is nothing more than an orginization, not much better than any government, thats veying for power over people. The promise of an afterlife or continuation after death is a powerfull tool when it comes to getting paid.
Last edited by phyzik; 09-08-2010 at 01:29 AM.
This is the best post of this whole thread IMO. I'm an agnostic theist. I believe there is some power greater than us all that we are all unsure about and we wont ever truly know or understand. However, that has to do with faith in and of itself. Both sides have valid arguments and at the end of the day one wont conquer over another because of "fact" or "proof."
We must learn to coexist in a world in which we have our own choice of what or who to believe in and that's the bottom line.
Great, great post, sir.
Really? I have yet to see a single valid argument for the belief in a higher power yet.
Some people need a constant threat hanging over their heads in order to behave like decent people.
That's what I find strange. Some Christians can't believe that atheists don't get there morals from a book written over 2000 years ago. They always ask, "What's stopping people from killing each other?" That makes me wonder why they need a god to tell them that killing, raping and stealing is wrong.
Tbh the god of the bible seems to kinda approve of these things, imho.
Here's a good way to address the burden of proof argument:
Those don't count, remember? God only inspired the good things in the Bible. If one don't agree with it, man was behind it.
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