No, I won't accept a weak excuse.
So it was just indentured servitude (which isn't even legal in the United States)? AND WAS IT OKAY TO BEAT THE INDENTURED SERVANTS TO DEATH?The slavery the laws of the Bible are referring to were common BUSINESS ARRANGEMENTS during that timeframe, not the chattel slavery of the Hebrews and of ignominy in the Americas.
Quit making weak excuses.Quit chasing your own tail and rehashing tired old arguments.
[QUOTE=Blake;4617180]Please explain the technical differences such as why God commanded Hercules.....err......Samson to grow out long hair in the OT while Paul condemns it in the NT.[QUOTE]
It was a symbol of Sampson's obedience to God. These are rather petty semantics you're arguing.
Oh, and I'm with RandomGuy lol--GO SPURS GO!
paul always felt overshadowed by john.
Just because you say something is weak doesn't make it so. Get off your freaking high horse.
News flash: The USA wasn't around when the Bible was written, therefore comparison is like apples to oranges. Many slaves in Biblical times entered it of their own accord to pay off debts (you can argue morals all you want, but that's just the corporate environment of the day). And I already told you, it was NOT legal or "okay" to beat the servants to death--there are specific Bible passages that state this (that were also covered in the other thread, incidentally), but I've got class in a little bit, so you can do your own homework for a change.
You can throw around the "weak excuses" phrase all you want, but you're really only highlighting either your inability to understand or unwillingness to accept the reality that slavery is not the huge dealbreaking moral issue when it comes to the Bible (and this is coming from a black man, btw. I know my when it comes to this, my friend).
I'm comfortable with my faith and comfortable with those who are not or don't believe. I don't agree with the thought that believers are foolish or ignorant though...but I can live with it.
The word of god adapts to the social norms of the times. Sounds pretty infallible to me!
Your point? The Bible is supposed to be the word of God--so it should have timeless morals.
That's called indentured servitude, which, as stated before, is viewed as a violation of civil liberties.Many slaves in Biblical times entered it of their own accord to pay off debts (you can argue morals all you want, but that's just the corporate environment of the day).
TRANSLATION: Even though the Bible says it's okay, it wasn't and I won't bother explaining why.And I already told you, it was NOT legal or "okay" to beat the servants to death--there are specific Bible passages that state this (that were also covered in the other thread, incidentally), but I've got class in a little bit, so you can do your own homework for a change.
Take your pick: slavery, killing nonbelievers, killing sexuals, killing unruly children, etc.You can throw around the "weak excuses" phrase all you want, but you're really only highlighting either your inability to understand or unwillingness to accept the reality that slavery is not the huge dealbreaking moral issue when it comes to the Bible (and this is coming from a black man, btw. I know my when it comes to this, my friend).
And I don't care about what your race is; I didn't bring race into the matter.
You just keep brushing off what the Bible says with poor excuses.
Will RedZero be having a Bible burning anytime soon ya think?
Here are a few passages of the Bible that don't condone beating slaves/indentured servants:
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)at it being all right to sell one's own daughter into slavery.
BUT GOD DOESN'T THINK IT'S OKAY, GUYS! SRS.When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
Wow, indentured servants should respect their masters as if they were Christ.Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)Servants should be punished for not serving their masters.The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
Societies that have rejected Biblical morality in favor of a more "rational" and "scientific" approach to politics (or science for that matter) murdered millions upon millions more than the Crusades or the inquisition ever did. o.....Atheists regimes have caused the greatest mass murders in history. The Crusades, the inquisition, the Galileo affair and witch hunts together make up less than 1% of the murders that have occurred during the modern atheist regimes like Stalin, Hitler and Mao.
DAILY DOUBLE! (insert Daily Double chime)...
Yes Alex, "I'll take FUN FACTS ABOUT ATHEISM for 1000"
i thought it was funny how you boiled it down to who killed less.DAILY DOUBLE! (insert Daily Double chime)...
Yes Alex, "I'll take FUN FACTS ABOUT ATHEISM for 1000"
Come to bible school! We murder LESS!
I wonder if what the facts would be if the Crusades had happened at a time with a higher population and stronger weapons.
Give King Richard an Abomb and lets see how well he does.
And the hits just keep on comin'.
Besides being a bad argument in and of itself (Christianity is better, because its human-rights atrocities are smaller than X belief structure) you're putting a tremendous amount of credence in the record-keeping of whomever you're citing.
fat man and little boy. always dissing the women.
Martyr? Really Manny?
Look at this textbook Phenomanul post. Martyr much? The poor internet prosecuted Christians!!!!!!
Its really ironic how apparently atheists are the only ones trying to make themselves feel better about their beliefs. Phenomanul is so secure in his he can never stay away from these threads.
If anything, just look at the barrage of replies I have to produce in response to the heavy opposition created by my stance… I also have to ignore all the one-liner troll-like jabs that are interspersed amongst the sparsely located questions of legitimate worth…
Feeling outnumbered is not imagined, it is the reality of such apologetic discussions…
But of course, you wouldn’t be able to notice the obvious incongruity of your snicker from your lofty perch.
Contempt from you in these matters is expected.
I know clam. I am just tickling your ribs just as well
I am the doing the best that I can sir.
I am the lone bat-boy representing Christianity and if I fail, I'll do down punching or pinching, whichever hurts more.
I am the doing the best that I can sir.
I am the lone bat-boy representing Christianity and if I fail, I'll do down punching or pinching, whichever hurts more.
Stalin, Mao and so on didn't execute people for atheism. Hitler was a Christian.
And two wrongs don't make a right, either way.
Also, you didn't even respond to the passages I quoted. Is slavery okay? None of the Christians here have even bothered to read the passages I quoted.
Redzero, for the LAST time, slavery (the way we view it today) is not ok. Some of us have other to do during the day.
Yeah so I don't know if this fits are not, but here discuss:
The newest "solution" to design in the universe is a belief in the multi-universe theory. This theory requires one to believe that there are more universes in existence than the number of all the subatomic particles that exist in our universe. Our universe just happened to be one of the few that is able to support life. Here is what a recent article from Science says about this hypothetical "multiverse" spinning off an "infinity" of other universes:
"Uncomfortable with the idea that physical parameters like lambda [cosmological constant] are simply lucky accidents, some cosmologists, including Hawking, have suggested that there have been an infinity of big bangs going off in a larger 'multiverse,' each with different values for these parameters. Only those values that are compatible with life could be observed by beings such as ourselves."9
What scientific evidence exists to support the multiverse model? None! Not only is there no evidence, the physics of our own universe requires that we will never be able to obtain any evidence about any other universe (even if it does exist). Even secular websites admit that such ideas amount to nothing more than unfalsifiable metaphysics:
"Appeals to multiple or "parallel" cosmoses or to an infinite number of cosmic "Big Bang/Crunch" oscillations as essential elements of proposed mechanisms are not acceptable in submissions due to a lack of empirical correlation and testability. Such beliefs are without hard physical evidence and must therefore be considered unfalsifiable, currently outside the methodology of scientific investigation to confirm or disprove, and therefore more mathematically theoretical and metaphysical than scientific in nature. Recent cosmological evidence also suggests insufficient mass for gravity to reverse continuing cosmic expansion. The best cosmological evidence thus far suggests the cosmos is finite rather than infinite in age."10
According to Paul Davies:
"Whether it is God, or man, who tosses the dice, turns out to depend on whether multiple universes really exist or not….If instead, the other universes are relegated to ghost worlds, we must regard our existence as a miracle of such improbability that it is scarcely credible."
Theistic solution - measurable design
On the other hand, the deist or theist says that God designed the universe with just the right laws of physics. Note that neither the multiverse nor the "God hypothesis" is testable. However, the "God hypothesis" is much simpler. The naturalistic explanation requires the presence of a complicated, unproved super universe that has the capacity to randomly spew out an infinite number of universes with different laws of physics. How does this hypothetical super universe know how to do this? Why would it even want to do this? Ultimately, why should there be any universe at all? None of these questions are logically explained by naturalism. Only an intelligent Being would be motivated and expected to produce any kind of universe such as what we see. If we use Occam's razor, which states that one should use the simplest logical explanation for any phenomenon, we would eliminate the super universe/multi-universe explanation in favor of the simpler God-designed universe model. The evidence for design in the universe and biology is so strong that Antony Flew, a long-time proponent of atheism, renounced his atheism in 2004 and now believes that the existence of a Creator is required to explain the universe and life in it. Likewise, Frank Tipler, Professor of the Department of Mathematics at Tulane University, and a former atheist, not only became a theist, but is now a born-again Christian because of the laws of physics.11
Who created God?
A common objection to the "God hypothesis" is the problem of how God came to be. If everything has a cause, why does God get an exception? The problem with such reasoning is that it assumes that time has always existed. In reality, time is a construct of this universe and began at the initiation of the Big Bang.12 A God who exists outside the time constraints of the universe is not subject to cause and effect. So, the idea that God has always existed and is not caused follows logically from the fact that the universe and time itself was created at the Big Bang. The Bible makes these exact claims - that God has always existed13 and that God created time,14 along with the entire universe,15 being described as an expanding universe.16 Why can't the universe be uncaused? Of course, it is possible that the universe is uncaused. However, there is a tremendous amount of evidence that contradicts that idea (see part 1). So, an atheist who claims to live by logic and evidence cannot arbitrarily assign eternity to a universe that is clearly temporal.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
