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It doesn't make sense to say in one comment that LeBron is currently the best player in the league, and then turn around and basically say he isn't until he wins a ring. He either is or he isn't. He's not both.
Stop it, troll be gone. We are talking basketball here. Dirk is one of the best players in the game.I assume you're joking my fellow Laker brethren
Dirk is not even a top 100 player in the league. You know why?
Rings. How many Dirk got? A big fat zero
If he wins two than we can start comparing him to Adam Morrison. Until then, I'd take Matt Bonner over him. He has a ring. It's that simple.
It doesn't make sense to say in one comment that LeBron is currently the best player in the league, and then turn around and basically say he isn't until he wins a ring. He either is or he isn't. He's not both.
I guess we will disagree here. But based on YOUR criteria than he is not ...yet. I think he wins soon. and the case will be closed.
But let me ask you this ... who do you think is the best QB in the NFL? Some would say Rodgers (especially fantasy players) but many would say Manning, Brees or Brady. What do the other 3 QB's have? les. If you ask me who will have the best SEASON of those QB's? I would guess rodgers. Does that mean he is the best QB in the NFL?
My point is, just because someone has the best season number-wise doesnt make them the best. Rodgers needs to lead them to a le before i put him in that class of QB. Same with the NBA for me, and even more so, because a star player has even greater impact. Lebron is like Aaron rodgers or better yet, Brees BEFORE last year. I have liked Brees since Purdue, and he played HS ball here in Texas, and I thought he was one of the best already but the le run validated it. Now is the torch passed to Brees? Not sure he only has one and Brady has 3 and Manning has 1 as well. But without that ring, he is not even in the conversation of "best" to me no matter how much i like him.
Look I don't deny that this is a harsh way of judging players because some of my all time favorites: Nique, Marino, Kemp and Reggie miller suffer because of it. But that's how I judge ALL sports unless it's youth sports. The purpose is winning. You play to win the game ..that's it. You play to win the game. and winning the "last game" matters even more to me.
.... and you're ass sore about it.
I never got trolled out of DB. I've been banned out, but not trolled out.
Here we are Sunday morning, this duel between JamStone and Killakobe.
Killakobe thinks he can sneak by a hypocritical comment by the vet?
Not on my watch, rook! That's just a grown man move on JamStone's part, mama there goes that man again. Calling out the idiot when it's time to be called out.
Hand down.....man down!
Peyton Manning has been the best quarterback in the NFL for about 5 seasons now. Anyone that doesn't pick him (or conditionally Brees) has a tenuous grasp of what "best" is. Rodgers could be logically considered the best fantasy QB, but that is only about stats, so it has absolutely no merit in a conversation about best overall QB.
No single player in the NFL has had the impact Manning made on the Colts since at the very least Joe Montana/Steve Young. And it's probably even greater than that, the 49ers were truly stacked even with an "average" QB under center.
If Manning still hadn't won a ring, he'd still be the best QB in the NFL right now, hands down.
For my money, Peyton is the best QB in the league and he was the best QB in the league before he won a Superbowl.
I don't even know why you want to argue using Fantasy sports when the value of players is entirely based on putting up tangible statistics. Moreover, I don't know why you would go to specific positions. Who is the best running back in the NFL? Most would say Peterson or Chris Johnson. Do either of those players have championships? Who is the best wide receiver in the league? You could go with Fitzgerald or Andrae Johnson. Do those receivers have Superbowl rings?
Do the same with the NBA if you go by position. Who is the best point guard in the league? Is it Billups or Parker or Fisher? The best center in the league? Is it Bynum or Perkins?
Your logic fails you.
LeBron is the best player in the NBA. He has been the best player in the league for several seasons now.
Might not get a popular opinion, but here's my list
1. Tacker- probably the worst poster of all time. I'm glad he's gone, but his re ation sets him on a different level than any other stupid ass poster. From getting owned by Duncan228 to having your facebook picture on here, he's the definition of re . The worst one liner he said, "i can't hear you over the sound of how fat you are."
2.21_blessings-by far could be the most annoying poster on this board. Very hard to communicate with, never seen a bigger homer as he is.
3.Monosylab1k- has some good basketball takes, but gets really butthurt when you don't agree with him.
4.Dirk4mvp- not as much now as before, but before haven't really seen him have a real basketball discussion and just makes of posters. Can be annoying at times and some of his trolls are annoying as well ( o greg oden)
5. Lefty- Speaking of one liners, what a disgrace of a poster. lol agent orange. But there's another reason why he's one of the worst posters. Does something re ed and can't admit that he made that mistake. But it's fun to see the whole board on this guy whenever he says something stupid.
Mono is probably my favorite poster on here. I don't always agree with him and he does act like an ass a lot. But in my opinion, he only goes into troll mode when another poster is being a . If you disagree with him but actually debate him, he is more than willing to have it out with you with legit discussion. Go at him with trolling, he'll lower himself to troll mode too. Seems like he can get butt hurt, but at least it's fully entertaining most of the time.
1. mouse - never understood how this guy garnered such notoriety on the interwebs, but his attention whoring, "get ready for this epic call-in", conspiracy theory-lovin, bad joke-tellin, "meet me in the troll forum for a smack off if you've got the stones" routine has been tired for YEARS now...regardless of how many of his own trolls repeatedly jerk him off for it.
2. koriwhat - he wouldn't be so bad if he didn't get off on the constant trolling like he did. Guiseppe loves the attention, too, but atleast he's relatively entertaining when he gets his own thread.
3. SpursTillTheEnd - I've been saying it for months now, but I'm STILL longing for the day somebody hate crimes his ass.
4. The Dr House troll - ing terrible. I have no idea whose troll that is, but odds are I don't like them either.
5. Sigz - stop. bumping. that. ing. thread.
drhouse and killakobe going above an beyond to get in ppls list in this thread
and why are mother ers not listing rascal????
No. It does not. Look I am not battling Jamstone here. He is battling himself. How can I be wrong about my own opinion? I never said go by fantasy. I asked you two questions, Jamstone. Who is the best QB and which QB do you think will have the best season? My answer to the first? Brady. Why? Rings. Did not Brady break manning's TD record? so Brady has rings, stats and a similar win% so the tiebreaker for me is rings. Notice my consistency?
To the 2nd question, I think Brees and Rodgers will have better seasons this year but does that make them the best? No. But Brees is in the convo cuz he rang. I never said rings were the only factor. Come on jamstone you are better than that. Read my posts, I said when players are close, the rings to me, are the deciding factor. I also, said In my opinion, you can NOT BE THE BEST in ANY SPORT, WITHOUT A RING. You are using flawed logic here. How are fisher, byum or even robert horry even CLOSE to being the best in any form or fashion? How does that analogy apply?
As for the people joining in the debate you are welcome, but I don't care if you feel Jamstone is winning or putting me in my place. I respect his opinion as he sould mine. If he doesnt, that is fine too. But i love how people are trying to tell me how i should rate who is the best or tell me my logic is flawed ...your logic is flawed (in my opinion) but I respect your right to have it.
Many agree with you, Manning is the better QB. But there are plenty of respected guys in the media that will say Brady. There are other guys thay say Brees is now the best, because he outperformed Manning on the biggest stage.Who is right and how do you determine that? Stats say Brees last year. Rings say Brady and the passing record books point to manning and Farve.
As for the RB's I think you bring up a valid point Jamstone. When it comes to other positions I dont hold them to the "ring standard" because the game has changed. The NFL is a passing league and QB play is more critical than RB play. Look at the past 10 years of SB winners: Brady, Manning, Brees, Roethlisberger and the other manning. the only somewhat questionable QB is Eli. So yes the best QB's win Super Bowls too. they have the most impact on the field. As for other positions, Revis can be the best DB without a ring ...but if a DB that is close in talent, stats etc wins one. I would give that DB the edge.
Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson > Phillip Rivers according to Killakobe
No genius, how are either close to manning, Brady or Farve? I said when discussing the BEST players or players of similar talents or accomplishments. Read my post, troll.
Phillip Rivers has accomplished nothing compared to them. They both have a ring, Rivers has none. 1 > 0, their accomplishments > Rivers accomplishments.
1 ring, got
tbh why is anyone debating with a got who doesn;t know the pick number of his team's franchise player?
lol Kobe Bryant the 16th pick.
LOL now that was funny but seriously, are you gonna pull the robert horry argument? or Adam morrison? how does that apply?
That is using logic with no context. That is like saying getting A's at a community college is better than getting a B at UCLA, stanford or UT ...I never said rings were the ONLY factor.
Because those arguments prove that rings are not an individual accomplishment in the slightest, rings are a team accomplishment. Adam Morrison and DJ Mbenga prove that you can win championships no matter how ty you are.
Never said it was an individual accomplishment. OK Kerr or Dragic. Let's use your theory ball dominant PG's dont win les. That is something you believe in ...correct? So, how can I tell you your logic is wrong? You have seen that fail for 20 years or so correct?
I have been watching basketball for almost 30. To me, the best players ring. Like I said above, it may take a while but they do. Maybe it takes Pippen or kobe to develop, or a Gasol trade ... but the best player wins les.
No, I dont think pierce was better player than kobe or Lebron in 2008, but he beat them both. so he hd the torch for a year. Yes, he had a great team most le teams do. But I don't make those excuses. The best win rings.
So let's say Lebron never rings and Manning never did ...are you guys on here telling me that dos not change the perception of those guys? They would still have great stats MVP's etc but that does not have an effect? Yes Manning is the face of the league he is in every commercial there is, but Im sorry if he doesnt ring he is with Dan marino in the best QB without a ring club.
Again Im talking about the proverial "torch" of best player. The one passed from Magic/Bird, to Isiah to MJ to Hakeem back to Mj to shaq to duncan and now to Kobe. Lebron needs a ring (at least two) to take it next thats is all Im saying. And i expect him to get it.Yes he is already great yes he already has more impact on a game and in the NBA than, Kobe. But to take his rightful place as "NEXT" he needs to win it all. I dont think tht is asking for much, ESPECIALLY in the NBA.
Note: I left out the one and done le holders because the torch bearers have multiple rings ...
Last edited by Killakobe81; 09-10-2010 at 04:44 PM.
fwiw
z0sa finally posted today
Dan Marino was IMO the best QB ever before Manning came along and depending on how Manning's career ends might still be the best. I don't hold it against Marino he couldn't win a ring with the trash teams he played on.
I feel you, i love the guy. But when you are arguing the very best, against Elway, manning or Joe Montana how can you make that case? All of them have great stats. Elway also, played on some crap teams too ...
To me, the best player in the NBA is LeBron James and he has been for 2-3 seasons now. You can argue for how long, but currently, right now, he's the best player in the league. He's the best because he dominates the league as an individual player more than any other player in the league. Championship or no championship, he's the best. A championship ring wouldn't change my mind about that.
How he is viewed in history is a different story. It's easier for people to dissect a player in retrospect and criticize a player for lack of team success. But that's what a championship is, a team accomplishment. If I replace Pierce with LeBron in 2008, I still think the Celtics win a le. If I replace Kobe with LeBron the last two seasons, I still think they win two championships. So using a "team accomplishment" to evaluate an individual player doesn't work for me, even though people use the argument.
For what it's worth, before Michael Jordan, I think Wilt Chamberlain was the greatest player in the the NBA and if he never won a le, I would think the same thing. No one else dominated like him as an individual player. There are days where I think he still was better than Jordan. But it's close enough because Jordan dominated the game more than anyone since Wilt. So rings can be a factor.
Right now, I don't think there's a player in the NBA that comes close to dominating the game and having as much impact on the game as LeBron does. Not Kobe, not Wade, not Dwight Howard, not Chris Paul. No other player dominates the game like LeBron.
Rings do not factor, because no one else is close to what LeBron does in the game. And winning a championship wouldn't change that for LeBron.
and for the record i won't be on here arguing that kobe i still better, he has 5 (or 6) when Lebron wins. In fact, I learned from my mistake with MJ. When MJ won I was bitter little brat that STILL argued Magic was better. He is my all-time favorite. But I can see that Lebron has the potential to be GOAT ...I hope he gets there and I will applaud him when he does get that torch But for now, i hope he cokes on Harlem's shaft ...just teasing HH37 ...
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