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Well, let's say they complete each other.
Kobe chokes, Gasol bails him out
Kobe misses, Gasol tips it in
Kobe ballhogs, he is benched and Gasol takes over
Has Kobe's role during the 3-peat become overrated?..Is Gasol's role during this current repeat underrated?..Both?..Neither?..
BTW, I'm not particularly talking about "1st/2nd option" here, I'm talking about best/most effective player..
Well, let's say they complete each other.
Kobe chokes, Gasol bails him out
Kobe misses, Gasol tips it in
Kobe ballhogs, he is benched and Gasol takes over
It's unfortunate that Lebron doesn't make his teammates better like Kobe does.
Thanks for this sober account that those #'s proved.
Harlem, good bball take. No really, not bad.
Kobe is the best player on the current Lakers team. No question about it.
OMG....a center/PF beating a SG in FG%, rebounding and shotblocking!!! Thats unheard of!!!
Jordan was better than 50% of NBA centers in those areas
And what does Jordan have to do with this thread? what was he about 1 for 10 in playoff games without pippen and only batting 400 without pippen.Jordan was better than 50% of NBA centers in those areas
Pau Gasol has become a fantastic player.
Aside from the obvious advantages a 7-foot big has in efficiency over a perimeter player, I think Pau Gasol has been more efficient also because he accepts being the sidekick. Kobe selfishly would not accept being the sidekick and instead insisted and forced Phil to allow for those Lakers teams to have two Batmans instead of having a Batman and a Robin. Had Kobe been more willing to accept a back-up role, he probably could have put up more efficient numbers. It's a double edge sword though because Kobe not accepting a back up role is a big reason why the Lakers became so dominant on offense. He made himself less efficient, but he forced other teams to treat him as the primary threat along with Shaq, instead of an afterthought sidekick. If Kobe was content to being a spot-up shooter and occasional slasher playing almost completely off of Shaq, perhaps he could have shot closer to 48-50% from the field, but he would have also probably lowered himself to a 19-20 ppg scorer and probably less of a facilitator as well. Kobe's aggressiveness helped that Laker offense even though it hurt his efficiency.
I would probably even go so far as saying that Pau Gasol was a better championship "sidekick" because he's been absolutely accepting of the role. Kobe wouldn't accept the role.
Not comparing MJ and KobeAnd what does Jordan have to do with this thread? what was he about 1 for 10 in playoff games without pippen and only batting 400 without pippen.
I was just saying that it was possible that a SG can have better stats than a lot of starting big men outside of scoring
But rarely will even an elite SG have better FG%, rebounds, and blocked shots than an elite PF/C. Pau Gasol isn't in the bottom 50% of NBA big men.
I don't even buy that Jordan had better rebounds and blocked shots than 50% of centers. But let's assume that he did. Well those certainly weren't elite centers.
Kobe during the 01 and 02 le runs was a better player than Gasol by planetary distances. His #'s throughout the playoffs were better than the large majority of first option players. He was a first option player, on a team with the MDE. Shaq was just so great himself that Kobe was overshadowed.
Gasol is a second option, and his style of play and #'s reflect it. His team contributions come closer to Kobe's because Kobe has declined significantly. That doesn't mean he is as effective a second option as Kobe was during the 3-peat.
If your intent is to say that the gap between he and Kobe the past few years has been comparable to the gap between Kobe and Shaq during the 3-peat, its a debate that can take place. You'd be wrong, but you wouldn't look like a complete idiot. If your intent is to say he's as good for the Lakers now as Kobe was for the Lakers then, the answer is not even a little bit.
Jam,
In the 3-peat Kobe played the team-game during the playoffs, even if he didn't at times during the regular season. Shaq got all the touches he wanted and Kobe still facilitated for the rest of the team, as well as Shaq.
Last edited by picc84; 09-15-2010 at 03:07 PM.
Good for Jordan. Im not saying that Kobe > Jordan.Jordan was better than 50% of NBA centers in those areas
Just another Lefty one liner.
Good for Jordan. Im not saying that Kobe > Jordan.
Just another Lefty one liner.
I never said they were
I suppose that's probably true for the most part. It's at least debatable.
I guess how I view it is that Kobe did enough during the threepeat le runs so that his desire to shine wouldn't prevent the Lakers from winning until that 2004 playoffs. You could argue he really started to do it to the detriment of the team in the 2003 playoffs against the Spurs when he averaged nearly 10 more field goal attempts than Shaq.
I can agree he played the team game to the extent that he did what he had to do so the team would still win. But I think he also had the mentality that he was going to take over the game like the primary go-to guy when he felt he could and when he felt he should. Let's say that despite playing the team game, he wasn't going to not shine like a superstar along the way. He wanted a share of that glory. And there was jealousy that Shaq was winning the Finals MVP each time. Kobe really wanted the Finals MVP against Philly especially, with all his hometown haters and critics watching.
09 and 10 Gasol is no where close to 00 to 02 Kobe, as Kobe is at least one of the top 3 sidekicks in the history of the league (if not the best).
However, keep in mind that Kobe not only have Gasol, he also had Odom and Bynum. The 00 to 02 Lakers bench was known to be shallow, and without Shaq and Kobe playing the majority of minutes, production (especially offensively) drops of steeply.
I would say Gasol + Odom + Bynum to Kobe would be a closer comparison, but even then, I would take Kobe.
Kobe made a great sidekick, but always wanted to be the star...wether it resulted in good or bad, he didnt like Shaq's work ethic and didnt like playing the Robin role. Gasol accepts that he is the sidekick and knows what role he needs to play. There are times where he wants to speak out (like a leader) but holds it in.
In essence, a few of the lakers three peat years has Kobe and Shaq as 1a/2a other than the usual 1,2 option.
there's no argument that Kobe is the best player on his team; however i think he's willing to seflishly go out of his way to prove that. as Phil pointed out during the season i know at least one time, ball doesn't go to Gasol nearly enough. the Finals proved that. Gasol shot close to 50% for the series and Kobe was putting up close to 30 shots a game on bad percentages. i think it's closer than a lot of people including Kobe want to admit. that series should have last 5 or 6 games.
You are not giving any credit to the horace grants, a.c. greens, derek fisher, brian shaw, ron harper, robert horry, rick fox, glen rice. if u are say odom and bynum are better than all those guys then we simply got the best championship team all time.
Quit Hatin'
your pretty passionate about LA...I like...
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthre...t=Pareto+Chart
I'm just glad he shoveled it to Artest and that lunk-head Pierce was playing soft. WTF was worrying about....Artest catchin' & drivin'?
tee, hee.
How many more times are you planning on mentioning this?
Many, many more times. There are consequences to winning an NBA World le.
You all ruminated & obsessed for months on end concerning Artest and his imminent implosion.
You deserve exactly what yer getting.
I have no sympathy for you.
A few exaggerations. Kobe averaged 23 shots a game in the NBA Finals. Still a lot, but not close to 30 shots a game. In fact he never shot 30 games in any of the 7 games, but did come close in two games. He shot extremely poorly in two of the games, games 3 and 7. He shot sub par for game 2 but 8-for-20 isn't that bad especially when you consider he took three or four shot clock winding down shots. The other four games 45% or better which is right where his career averages are.
Gasol shot 48% from the field which is ok, but not great for him, considering he shot 54% from the field on the season and over 56% for the playoffs before the NBA Finals. Plus he shot under 43% from the field in the final three games of the Finals. For an elite big man, he wasn't all that efficient from the field either.
It's only been a couple months and people already change facts. Over time, it will be more like "Gasol was shooting 75% from the field and Kobe was shooting 25% from the field and took 50 shots a game." This is how biased revisionist history starts to skew the facts and rewrite what actually happened.
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