Is Manu past his prime?

[ALVAREZ6]

Man in Black, your arguments are re ed.

Manu is my all-time favorite athlete, but come on man, he's not better than Wade.

[Ace]

You asked the question. I said that I would build around Ginobili. But on the Spurs, he's a perfect fit. Everywhere he's gone, he's been a champion. DWade can't say that.

Now your reaching. Manu a champion everywhere he has gone? Where his home country? Your getting desperate with this one.

At first they aren't but, this is a true team. Each player has a designated role and Ginobili's on this team is as important as Tim or Tony. But you fail to recognize that

Where have I failed to realize that? It's a team built around Duncan and was built well by a great franchise but all is irrelevant in saying Manu is better than Wade. The question is would you build a team around Manu or Wade, not who's the better fit in the team built around Duncan.

What it means is that in 14 games of Spurs vs. Heat, there aren't any videos of Wade making defensive play on Ginobili. In a world where one can find pink puppies on video ,
Why is it, that one CANNOT find a video of DWade playing defense on Ginobili?

Now your going Koolaid_man on me posting random YouTube videos. Like I said your only showing your stupidity knows no bounds the more you go on. One block has very little to do with one's defense on another. Manu has a career .3 BPG compared to Wade's 1.0. So by your logic than makes Wade a much better defender.

No, what I find too funny is that many people don't even understand the context of the word, PRIME. I count you among them. I'm smarter than you are, been watching this game longer, and know this team better.

Try again. Being the MIB means that there is going to be some issue with someone who disagrees with me. It always seems that at the end, the other poster grows weary of me and then fades away. I think, eventually...you'll do the same. But truthfully, debate some more. The more you post, the more people will see what you really know about hoops. Which'll amount to LESS than I do.

You just seemingly don't understand much do you? I posted stats backing myself and you've not really said much but re ed arguments. You just keep begging me to own you, even when I tired to help you save face.

[Ace]

Man in Black, your arguments are re ed.

Manu is my all-time favorite athlete, but come on man, he's not better than Wade.

Listen to this guy. Your embarrassing yourself at this point.

[Man In Black]

Et Tu Alvarez? The point is, if a team was smart and they could choose to build around a player, if Wade & Ginobili were exactly the same age, and had their same unique expereince, Ginobili's road has BETTER prepped him for team success. That's all I'm trying to say. For some teams, The NBA is like a grown up version of AAU. Where it's the star theory that comes into play and that guy gets pushed up the chain. Wade's road wasn't All-State like Darius Miles. But he made his situation great at Marquette. Doesn't mean he ain't good. Doesn't he mean he can't lead a team, it just means that Ginobili has accomplished more as a team player. While Wade was struggling(he didn't play with any kind of real consistency) on the US Olympic Team in 04, Ginobili was leading his team to a gold medal.

But hey....I said he's won at every level...But you're a dumb ass because you don't know that he's been a champ everywhere he's gone. It just takes a little bit of research...Re ed? No...try intellectually superior
Let's see:

Ginóbili then entered the 1999 NBA Draft and the San Antonio Spurs selected him late in the second round with the 57th overall pick.[8] However, he did not sign with the Spurs at this point in time. Instead, he returned to Italy to play for Kinder Bologna, which he helped win the 2001 Italian Championship, the 2001 and 2002 Italian Cups, and the 2001 Euroleague, where he was named the Euroleague 2000–01 Euroleague Final Four MVP.[5] He was also named the Italian League MVP in 2000–01 and 2001–02, and made the Italian league's All-Star game three times during this period.[5]

Add the aforementioned Gold, and 3 LOB's, in which 1 of them he should've been at least co-mvp and once again, I take you down And sadly....add an Argentine with you.
You were saying (W)ace?

[ALVAREZ6]

The whole Manu blocking Wade video is stupid, and here's why:

Whether or not Wade has ever blocked Manu...I am not sure, who knows. But it doesn't matter, one block doesn't mean the difference, nor many blocks, as blocking is not the only part of defense. In fact, it's probably the least significant, in my opinion, as sometimes you can get blocks as a result of playing poor defense earlier in the possession but then making up for it, catching up and getting a block.
But regardless, I am not arguing that because of this it doesn't mean Manu isn't a better defender. I think he's a great defender. And even again, all of this is not the main point.

Back to the video aspect, this may explain why there isn't a video of Wade blocking Ginobili. While we know Manu does a lot of amazing, unorthodox crazy plays and a lot of nice dunks for a white boy, especially earlier when he was younger, Wade does more athletically-freakish things than Manu, and more often. He is just more athletic (perhaps because he's black? LOL, again, not really the concern). But that is a fact. He dunks all over people's heads multiple times per game. And has been doing so for his whole career. And he's 2 inches shorter than Manu.
Just watch his highlights, he smashes all over people, and I've watched so many games where he does so 6 or 7 times per game. If I remember correctly, a few seasons back for at least half or most of the season, he lead the league in dunks, and he's 6'4".

So what I'm essentially saying is there is just way more higher-priority highlights out there to put in highlight reels and videos for Wade, compared to Manu. And believe me, I am not taking anything away from Manu, he is a freak as well, but they are simply on different levels. So given this, Manu's followers have a little less to work with for the videos on youtube or anywhere (yes, because the fan groups of each player are the ones putting the videos up).

And this is just arguing against the stupid video argument. Oh yeah, and the Manu block on Wade is not even that impressive, Wade is falling over Tony or whoever it was in the video and Manu comes from behind to erase it. It was help defense. Not nearly as impressive as his blocks on Durant and Garnett from last season. And this connects to my point about the actual material to choose from, for each player, to put in videos. Wade may or may not have blocks similar to the Manu block on Wade, but they don't make the cut/capture the attention for people to care enough to put it online, instead they upload things like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uRN7iJ5CqQ

[Ace]

Et Tu Alvarez? The point is, if a team was smart and they could choose to build around a player, if Wade & Ginobili were exactly the same age, and had their same unique expereince, Ginobili's road has BETTER prepped him for team success. That's all I'm trying to say. For some teams, The NBA is like a grown up version of AAU. Where it's the star theory that comes into play and that guy gets pushed up the chain. Wade's road wasn't All-State like Darius Miles. But he made his situation great at Marquette. Doesn't mean he ain't good. Doesn't he mean he can't lead a team, it just means that Ginobili has accomplished more as a team player. While Wade was struggling(he didn't play with any kind of real consistency) on the US Olympic Team in 04, Ginobili was leading his team to a gold medal.

But hey....I said he's won at every level...But you're a dumb ass because you don't know that he's been a champ everywhere he's gone. It just takes a little bit of research...Re ed? No...try intellectually superior
Let's see:

Add the aforementioned Gold, and 3 LOB's, in which 1 of them he should've been at least co-mvp and once again, I take you down And sadly....add an Argentine with you.
You were saying (W)ace?

They are not the same age. Ginobili at his age has three LOB's and most likely won't see the finals again. Wade has one LOB and one finals MVP, sure deal to win more while still in his prime. He as well has gold while being the leading score on that team. Again your reaching in your arguments and it seems your the only one who thinks Manu is the better player.

[ALVAREZ6]

PS. I'm not even saying I would take Wade over Manu, value per value, because for Manu's contract compared to his worth, I'd probably take him because you just can't find a better investment in the NBA at his price. But I think I'd rather build a franchise around Wade.

[TD 21]

The Jets PR extended the press pass knowing who she was and what she was wearing. If her attire was good enough for the club's PR, it should have been good enough for the players in that locker room too. Woody Johnson offering an apology pretty much render weightless your argument, right?

Who said the players had a problem with her attire? Seemed to me they enjoyed it.

Johnson offering her an apology was obviously for PR.

[diego]

manu's driving game picked up steam over the course of the season and that is really what makes him special, but in the PO, probably from fatigue and tighter D, he was unable to consistently (or productively) penetrate. So hopefully there is more of that as his legs have been healthy for a good while now. I think he'll be able to stay at a good level as long as he can shoot/get his shot off.


as for the wade argument, the driving ability is what makes them comparable (and probably the reason both have had injury problems). Obviously wade has an athletic advantage, and plenty of ability to finish, he's overall a better scorer but as MIB points out manu has significantly better range and has shown the abillity to impact the game on both ends, moreso than wade IMO. For a franchise player, assuming all else is equal you take the younger guy, no questions asked. But in my mind they have always been similar players because of their driving ability, I dont see why some people dismiss the argument entirely.

[Man In Black]

They are not the same age. Ginobili at his age has three LOB's and most likely won't see the finals again. Wade has one LOB and one finals MVP, sure deal to win more while still in his prime. He as well has gold while being the leading score on that team. Again your reaching in your arguments and it seems your the only one who thinks Manu is the better player.

If they were the same age with the same skills...WHO DO YOU TAKE?

[BadOdor]

Is spur fan really arguing they would rather build a team around manu rather than wade?

this is worse than manu>dirk.

[Man In Black]

Is spur fan really arguing they would rather build a team around manu rather than wade?

this is worse than manu>dirk.

No it's not. It's as valid a comparison as MJJ>KBean. Because the comparison is SG vs. SG. Everyone always takes the Big over the Small, unless the Small is Jordan or Oscar Robertson or at some level, Isaiah Thomas.

The question remains, you can play too LAL bandwagon. All you have to do it pick a player and then quantify why. But to make the playing field level, assume that they are the same age, but have their requisite skill sets and experience.

WHO DO YOU TAKE AND WHY?

[Ace]

If they were the same age with the same skills...WHO DO YOU TAKE?

They're not the same age with the same skills. If they had the same skills and same age with its the difference at that point. Just another re ed argument. Face it your the only one dumb enough to say Manu is better than Wade.

[Chieflion]

I take Dwyane Wade because he is better. How does anyone quantify that Manu Ginobili is better than Dwyane Wade? Wade has a higher PER, more all-NBA selections, all-NBA defenisve team selections. He is better than Ginobili when it comes to dominating at almost every aspect of the game. Man In Black has been embarrassing himself throughly in this thread and making Spurs fans look like idiots.

If Ginobili is better than Dwyane Wade, the Spurs would have been 2010 NBA champions.

[BadOdor]

I take Dwyane Wade because he is better. How does anyone quantify that Manu Ginobili is better than Dwyane Wade? Wade has a higher PER, more all-NBA selections, all-NBA defenisve team selections. He is better than Ginobili when it comes to dominating at almost every aspect of the game. Man In Black has been embarrassing himself throughly in this thread and making Spurs fans look like idiots.

If Ginobili is better than Dwyane Wade, the Spurs would have been 2010 NBA champions.

[Ace]

I take Dwyane Wade because he is better. How does anyone quantify that Manu Ginobili is better than Dwyane Wade? Wade has a higher PER, more all-NBA selections, all-NBA defenisve team selections. He is better than Ginobili when it comes to dominating at almost every aspect of the game. Man In Black has been embarrassing himself throughly in this thread and making Spurs fans look like idiots.

If Ginobili is better than Dwyane Wade, the Spurs would have been 2010 NBA champions.

I don't know what he is trying to accomplish. I've posted stats backing my claim gave reasons and yet he continues to come back with utterly re arguments.

[ALVAREZ6]

I don't know what he is trying to accomplish. I've posted stats backing my claim gave reasons and yet he continues to come back with utterly re arguments.

Maybe you're getting butthurt and regulated by a troll...just a thought

[Chieflion]

I also don't get how difficult it is to admit that Manu Ginobili is past his prime. He is one of my favorite players but I know he wasn't the same as he was a few seasons ago. He is still an extremely good player and there is no shame in admitting that he is not as good as one of the top 3 players in the NBA.

[Ace]

Maybe you're getting butthurt and regulated by a troll...just a thought

Butthurt? How many times has he called me "Wace"
Regulation? Back peddle much?

[Man In Black]

I take Dwyane Wade because he is better. How does anyone quantify that Manu Ginobili is better than Dwyane Wade? Wade has a higher PER, more all-NBA selections, all-NBA defenisve team selections. He is better than Ginobili when it comes to dominating at almost every aspect of the game. Man In Black has been embarrassing himself throughly in this thread and making Spurs fans look like idiots.

If Ginobili is better than Dwyane Wade, the Spurs would have been 2010 NBA champions.

Cheiflion...I disagree. It's a relevant topic, you have to stretch a little to challenge your intellect. Apparently, a great many of you are drinking Major media Kool-Aid. It ain't nothing new. I grew up in a time where using your brain instead of over-reliance on a search engine meant something.
When people use terms like Bukake, unless they've lived in that country, then we pretty much know what they're using their search engine for. I quantify it like this. Ginobili is very much a big part of why he has 3 Rings to Wade's 1. , if you think about it, he's part of the reason Wade has 1.

[Ace]

Ginobili is very much a big part of why he has 3 Rings to Wade's 1. , if you think about it, he's part of the reason Wade has 1.

Yeah having one of the greatest PFs to play the game of basketball, doesn't mean much. Ginobili played a big part but the reason for his rings has more to do with the great Tim Duncan. Stop trying to discredit him just to make a point. Now that Wade has the same help we'll see how many rings he ends up with.

[Chieflion]

Cheiflion...I disagree. It's a relevant topic, you have to stretch a little to challenge your intellect. Apparently, a great many of you are drinking Major media Kool-Aid. It ain't nothing new. I grew up in a time where using your brain instead of over-reliance on a search engine meant something.
When people use terms like Bukake, unless they've lived in that country, then we pretty much know what they're using their search engine for. I quantify it like this. Ginobili is very much a big part of why he has 3 Rings to Wade's 1. , if you think about it, he's part of the reason Wade has 1.

Ginobili has never been the number 1 player on the Spurs team. Dwyane Wade was the reason why the Miami Heat franchise has an NBA championship banner. Ginobili fouling Dirk is another matter altogether. He carried them like no other. In the 2009 and 2010 season, would a prime Ginobili be able to carry this team to the playoffs? A prime Dwyane Wade was able to lead the league in scoring in 2009 against the likes of Kobe Bryant and LeBron James while being dominant on defense as a SG, playing insanely good help defense and blocking shots like a center.

Although Ginobili has 3 championships, one of them was as a role player strictly off the bench backing up the likes of a young Stephen Jackson. He played a huge role in 2005 but wasn't number 1. In 2007, he was a sidekick to Tim Duncan, along with Tony Parker. His 3 championships do not equal in value as opposed to the main man in Dwyane Wade, who arguably had the greatest finals performance in a series in 1993, when Jordan destroyed the Suns.

There was no way, not even in Ginobili's prime, can he carry a depleted Miami Heat roster to 45-47 wins and get to the playoffs in a harsh 82 game season, unless a miracle occurred.

Mario Chalmers
Manu Ginobili
Quentin Richardson
Udonis Haslem
Jermaine O'Neal

6th man: Michael Beasley

Are you telling me this squad gets to the playoffs, much less the 5th or 6th seed? Dwyane Wade managed to do it. Ginobili had the luxury of playing with a deep Spurs team where he enjoed team success for the whole of his career while Dwyane Wade only had 2 glorious seasons of having deep playoff runs due to the lack of help. He also has plenty more individual accolades as opposed to Ginobili, who last I checked, only had one 3rd all-NBA selection.

Is it so shameful to admit Dwyane Wade has had a much more superior NBA career than Manu Ginobili? When it comes to individual accolades and he also has his fair share of team accolades, Dwyane Wade has been the superior player.

No reasonable fan would need to drink major kool-aid to believe Dwyane Wade, who has dominated the league, is a much more superior but still extremely good player in Manu Ginobili. Disagreeing with the norm with reason is one thing, disagreeing just because everyone believes it out of pure homerism is another.

Again, if Manu Ginobili was anywhere near Dwyane Wade in any of his seasons, the Spurs would have had more than 4 NBA championships.

[Man In Black]

Yeah having one of the greatest PFs to play the game of basketball, doesn't mean much. Ginobili played a big part but the reason for his rings has more to do with the great Tim Duncan. Stop trying to discredit him just to make a point. Now that Wade has the same help we'll see how many rings he ends up with.

For the 05 Championship, There are a few fan bases and media personalities that feel Ginobili deserved, at the very least, a Co-MVP for his play against Detroit.

See, this is where your argument fails for you. You say Wade's stats are all-powerful, because he didn't have any real help outside of the 1 championship year, but then at the same time, you devalue Ginobili for having Tim Duncan next to him.

So, which is it? Is Wade awesome for ac ulating those eye-popping stats with scrub teammates, or is Ginobili awesome for lesser stats attained because he plays with Tim Duncan & Tony Parker?

[The Truth #6]

Obviously Manu isn't as durable so Wade is a better choice to build around for an NBA season that is ridiculously too long.

In crunch time with the game on the line (assuming Manu is healthy), I'd easily prefer Manu to just about anyone in the league.

[Ace]

For the 05 Championship, There are a few fan bases and media personalities that feel Ginobili deserved, at the very least, a Co-MVP for his play against Detroit.

See, this is where your argument fails for you. You say Wade's stats are all-powerful, because he didn't have any real help outside of the 1 championship year, but then at the same time, you devalue Ginobili for having Tim Duncan next to him.

So, which is it? Is Wade awesome for ac ulating those eye-popping stats with scrub teammates, or is Ginobili awesome for lesser stats attained because he plays with Tim Duncan & Tony Parker?

Wade as number option has dominated. Enough said.