The official "He'll be better in his second year" thread

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You don't have to buy anything I tell you.

Statistically, his best years overall were 04-05 (regular season) and 05-06 (playoffs), unless you want to restrict stats to PPG. Both before his injury.

He did have his best PPG in 07-08... however, the Nets were already a mediocre team and missed the playoffs that year.

He shot his worst percentage that year and was only slightly better at rebounding. The reason why that team was not very good was because a stupid front office fired Byron Scott, traded Jason Kidd and signed Vince Carter.

Whoever thought Jefferson and Carter on the same roster was a good idea should be fired again.

Point is that there is no statistical justification or really any other for that matter to saying that the injury seriously effected his play.

[TD 21]

I believe his all around game will be more consistent and more solid.

Those who only judge him by the amount of points he puts up per game will be disappointed. He won't receive the amount of touches to put up the numbers he did in Milwaukee because of the talent on this team.

Expect 10-12 point per game again this season, but with a more consistent and efficient all around active game.

Excellent post.

If for whatever reason(s) this isn't the case next season, then I think it's more than fair to write him off. But at this point, I think it's premature (for reasons that have been stated ad nauseam).

I'm not under any illusion that he's some savior or that he's going to be all world or single-handedly propel this team back into le contention, but he remains a talent that's close enough to his athletic prime that he should still be able to be a solid player. There's seemingly nothing that should prohibit him from being just that next season.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I believe his all around game will be more consistent and more solid.

Those who only judge him by the amount of points he puts up per game will be disappointed. He won't receive the amount of touches to put up the numbers he did in Milwaukee because of the talent on this team.

Expect 10-12 point per game again this season, but with a more consistent and efficient all around active game.

If his 3 point shot returns to career norms, he should get 1 or so more points per game over last year's 12 points.

[duhoh]

TD is the worst PF of all TIME!

[ElNono]

He shot his worst percentage that year and was only slightly better at rebounding. The reason why that team was not very good was because a stupid front office fired Byron Scott, traded Jason Kidd and signed Vince Carter.

Whoever thought Jefferson and Carter on the same roster was a good idea should be fired again.

No argument here on that. I'm in NJ, so I had a first hand look at how all that went down.

Point is that there is no statistical justification or really any other for that matter to saying that the injury seriously effected his play.

Watch the games. There's no statistical subs ution for that.
The rub with stats is that they never paint the entire picture. It's easy to pick and choose. IE: I could point out last season was his worst in PER and Winning Shares, and I would be right.

Ultimately, he was one of the stars on bad teams since that injury, so stats can be misleading.

As I said earlier, I'm not concerned with his offense. The Spurs as a team can win with him putting the same numbers as he did last season on offense, or even less. He's just going to have to be a lot better defensively.

Last season his interest in defense seemed to be tied to how involved he was on offense. That's just not going to get it done if you pretend to be a championship team.

[ElNono]

Those who only judge him by the amount of points he puts up per game will be disappointed. He won't receive the amount of touches to put up the numbers he did in Milwaukee because of the talent on this team.

Expect 10-12 point per game again this season, but with a more consistent and efficient all around active game.

I have no problems with those numbers and his overall offense. The only knock would be his tendency to cut instead of staying in the corner for the 3 point shot. But I blame the lack of familiarity with the system for that.

Defensively, however, he's going to have to improve a lot though. And unfortunately he's not a very smart player. So you'll have to excuse me if I'm very skeptic.

As I said earlier, I can't wait for RJ to prove me wrong.

[benefactor]

Defensively, however, he's going to have to improve a lot though. And unfortunately he's not a very smart player.

Exactly. Much like Drew Gooden, he has the tools(sort of, as you mentioned earlier he has lost a step) but just doesn't have the brains to keep it going one direction consistently. He's not quite as dumb as Gooden, but he's not miles ahead of him either.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No argument here on that. I'm in NJ, so I had a first hand look at how all that went down.



Watch the games. There's no statistical subs ution for that.
The rub with stats is that they never paint the entire picture. It's easy to pick and choose. IE: I could point out last season was his worst in PER and Winning Shares, and I would be right.

Ultimately, he was one of the stars on bad teams since that injury, so stats can be misleading.

As I said earlier, I'm not concerned with his offense. The Spurs as a team can win with him putting the same numbers as he did last season on offense, or even less. He's just going to have to be a lot better defensively.

Last season his interest in defense seemed to be tied to how involved he was on offense. That's just not going to get it done if you pretend to be a championship team.

How many games with RJ on the Nets have you actually seen because quite frankly you essentially straight made the 'same injury as Tim Duncan' thing up. I have never heard anything like you are claiming and a close family friend is a big Nets fan.

It goes down to more than points. His shooting percentage remained the same and he still played with Vince Carter and Jason Kidd. I do recall quite a bit of talk of Vince Carter losing it. If you look at the stats for Carter you can see a consistent decline over his years with the Mets.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Exactly. Much like Drew Gooden, he has the tools(sort of, as you mentioned earlier he has lost a step) but just doesn't have the brains to keep it going one direction consistently. He's not quite as dumb as Gooden, but he's not miles ahead of him either.

Drew Gooden did not have the tools to play good NBA defense. He had a big body and a turnaround jumpshot; he was never all that athletic.

[ElNono]

How many games with RJ on the Nets have you actually seen because quite frankly you essentially straight made the 'same injury as Tim Duncan' thing up. I have never heard anything like you are claiming and a close family friend is a big Nets fan.

I don't keep track of how many games I watch. There's just too many.
But tell me, how many games with RJ on the Nets I need to have seen for my opinion to carry any weight? What's the magic number?

And I didn't make up anything. They both did have injuries. I did mix up what RJ's was and admitted it. The point I was making in that post stands though: They both lost part of their abilities in the process (Duncan could barely jump since then, among other problems, while RJ retained his hops but has a terrible time with his first step and moving laterally). The difference is that Duncan could make up for it because he's an incredibly smart player. RJ on the other hands still bases his game purely on his athleticism and jumpshot.

It goes down to more than points. His shooting percentage remained the same and he still played with Vince Carter and Jason Kidd. I do recall quite a bit of talk of Vince Carter losing it. If you look at the stats for Carter you can see a consistent decline over his years with the Mets.

That's interesting because while VC and RJ were together in NJ, they shot basically the same percentages. And RJ actually took more shots than VC in the ill fated 07-08 season. They both shot respectable percentages, but can only muster 34 wins. But again, stats can be misleading. That's why I watch the games.

Have you seen Nets games with RJ pre and post surgery?

[ElNono]

Drew Gooden did not have the tools to play good NBA defense. He had a big body and a turnaround jumpshot; he was never all that athletic.

If you think NBA defense is solely based on athleticism then I have to question if you even watch Spurs games at all. Duncan is probably one of the less athletic bigs in the game yet one of the best defenders in the NBA (or at least was).

[Manufan909]

I was really wish this thread was general and the OP had included Blair.

On the topic at hand, I do believe RJ will be better, especially if he is involved more in the regular season. The Spurs need to milk the alley oop with him, and make sure that if he's on the floor that two of Manu/Neal/Bonner/Anderson?/Hill are on the floor so he isn't necessary to create spacing. Idk why the Spurs don't force the guards who are not 3pt threats to work as hard as Hill has this summer. He shot 39% and he's trying to improve on that, you'd think TP and RJ (29% and 32% respectively) would follow suit. That could be crucial since my two 1st year Spur sharp shooters might never get into the PO rotation, and Bonner has a history of choking (he did shoot 37% this post season).

[benefactor]

Looks like that work with Pop is already bearing fruit. 8pts and 3 boards in 30 minutes.

lol outscored by Kirk Penney

[ElNono]

It's only October...

[objective]

Looks like that work with Pop is already bearing fruit. 8pts and 3 boards in 30 minutes.

that's consistent with his playoff numbers. so far so good.

[Blackjack]

that's consistent with his playoff numbers. so far so good.

[DrSteffo]

Basically RJ still sucks. Does he suck harder or with more finesse this year is the question.

[Nathan89]

I hate hearing the bull about the system. Rj will do marginally better for know the system. If his confidence is high he will do even better. The problem is he cant do anything on the court.

Can someone please tell me one thing that Rj is good at?????

[ohmwrecker]

I was really wish this thread was general and the OP had included Blair.

That would not have fit OP's "lol RJ" agenda.

[elec99]

Yeah, 30 min and 2 of 9 is consistent with RJ. It's horrible, but worse when you think he was up against a squad the rockets were testing out too? So basically a B squad and still only 2 of 9. 8 points "might" be acceptable on less attempts and minutes...

[TJastal]

Yeah, 30 min and 2 of 9 is consistent with RJ. It's horrible, but worse when you think he was up against a squad the rockets were testing out too? So basically a B squad and still only 2 of 9. 8 points "might" be acceptable on less attempts and minutes...

+1

I seem to recall a whole slew of 2-9 lines last year from RJ.

Looks like Pop was dying to know how his personal workouts with RJ paid off, playing him 30 minutes (by far the most of anyone).

So far, doesn't look good.

[mingus]

he's played one pre-season game.

have you ever played basketball before? he revamped his shooting form, which looks A LOT better this year. it's going to take some in-game shooting with it in order to get confidence in it. if 10 games into the season he's still missing, then you can talk.

[yavozerb]

Looks like that work with Pop is already bearing fruit. 8pts and 3 boards in 30 minutes.

lol outscored by Kirk Penney

Seriously, 1 preseason game....So after every bad game for RJ (including preseason) you are gonna have posts like this one. Dude, you better than this.

[ohmwrecker]

Seriously, 1 preseason game....So after every bad game for RJ (including preseason) you are gonna have posts like this one. Dude, you better than this.

Yes. And . . . No, he's not.

[MaNu4Tres]

And . . . No, he's not.

This