Patriots vs. Jets game thread

[Dave Mustaine]

scoffing at Cassell going 11-5. How often does 11-5 get you to the playoffs vs not getting to the playoffs?

great in system quarterbacks in NE

Texas Tech of the NFL tbh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Welker was awfully good that year, was he not? His history at that point has nothing to do with what he produced that year.

He sucked before Brady, as in Brady made him relevant. He was a scrub prior to 2007.

Instead, the Pats had a defense that was able to help them have better field position. I think that takes a lot of pressure off the offense as well.

Yeah the 2007 Patriot defense was something special.

So in other words, you think Bill sucks as a coach? Because that is basically what you are saying here, that Brady entirely made Belichick.

I'm saying that for all the talk of Belichick's great system, it's odd that Brady is the only one who's been successful with it.

I'm not tearing Brady down at all. I'm saying that he benefitted from a good system and good playcalling

So did Manning. Dungy and Tom Moore aren't exactly bums.

Imuch like Manning benefitted from good weapons. Good coaching can make mediocre weapons appear solid, and vice versa, good weapons, can make mediocre coaching appear solid. Both guys had their share of benefits on the offensive end.

Yeah Bill Belichick's awesome coaching made the Cleveland Brown's a great team in the early 1990's.

IIf you actually read what I say, I have said for a while now, that Brady is the second best QB of all time, only behind Peyton.

I'm surprised given how Bill Belichick's system could make a re ed monkey look like Joe Montana.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

scoffing at Cassell going 11-5. How often does 11-5 get you to the playoffs vs not getting to the playoffs?

great in system quarterbacks in NE

Texas Tech of the NFL tbh.

Given how much of a joke New England's 2008 schedule was anything worse than 11-5 woulda been pathetic.

The way you guys compliment how well your least favorite team is run just to tear Brady down is almost as sad as that one time gray named Spurfan talked about how high Dallas's payroll was and that Dirk is terrible for not being able to win a championship with such a high payroll.

[Dave Mustaine]

The difference is I haven't been serious at all with my last couple of posts.

lol defensive

[Blake]

Welker was awfully good that year, was he not? His history at that point has nothing to do with what he produced that year.

never said they werent comparable. although consider all aspects. welker is in a pass heavy offense with one of the greatest qbs ever. marshall, not so much. welker before going to the pats had quite mediocre stats

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

[Blake]

scoffing at Cassell going 11-5. How often does 11-5 get you to the playoffs vs not getting to the playoffs?

great in system quarterbacks in NE

Texas Tech of the NFL tbh.

Harrell > Snead > Cassell

[stretch]

He sucked before Brady, as in Brady made him relevant. He was a scrub prior to 2007.

I agree, that the system and his surroundings made him a lot better than he really is. Just the way Harrison and Wayne and Garcon and Stokely look beastly with Peyton Manning throwing to them.

Yeah the 2007 Patriot defense was something special.

Better than the Colts defenses with the exception of the 2006 playoffs.

I'm saying that for all the talk of Belichick's great system, it's odd that Brady is the only one who's been successful with it.

Prove that Belichick used the same system with teams prior to the Pats.

So did Manning. Dungy and Tom Moore aren't exactly bums.

They aren't exactly Belichick either.

Yeah Bill Belichick's awesome coaching made the Cleveland Brown's a great team in the early 1990's.

Answer this. Is his system good? Or is it entirely Brady?

I'm surprised given how Bill Belichick's system could make a re ed monkey look like Joe Montana.

lol replies like this is exactly why you are referred to as monos understudy

its also funny how you are taking everything as slights against Brady, and getting sarcastic in your replies, instead of presenting a logical argument and taking my comments for what they are (ex. me saying that Brady benefitted from Belichick having a good system, results in you sarcastically saying that I think re ed monkeys could look like Joe Montana in his system). once again, very similar to mono.

[stretch]

talking about Welker being a legit offensive weapon, and comparing him to Brandon Marshall's production are two completely different things.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I agree, that the system and his surroundings made him a lot better than he really is. Just the way Harrison and Wayne and Garcon and Stokely look beastly with Peyton Manning throwing to them.

Oh OK now it's "the system". I wish I played for the 1992 Browns, I could be a 1,000 yard receiver.

Better than the Colts defenses with the exception of the 2006 playoffs.

Not really. That defense had some terrible players playing major roles.

Prove that Belichick used the same system with teams prior to the Pats.

Idk why Belichick would use any system other than the system you've been raving about for a page. How good would the Browns have been if Belichick used this "system".

They aren't exactly Belichick either.

Compare Dungy's career without Manning and Belichick's career without Brady.

Answer this. Is his system good? Or is it entirely Brady?

His system is good, but it's not on some elite lone tier by itself that makes a QB look massively better than he is.

lol replies like this is exactly why you are referred to as monos understudy

mono and I aren't the only two people who use sarcasm to scoff re ed arguments.

its also funny how you are taking everything as slights against Brady, and getting sarcastic in your replies, instead of presenting a logical argument and taking my comments for what they are (ex. me saying that Brady benefitted from Belichick having a good system, results in you sarcastically saying that I think re ed monkeys could look like Joe Montana in his system). once again, very similar to mono.

You're trying to argue Manning is better than Brady, so the only reason you bring up Bill Belichick's system would be to try and slight Brady. I have a hard time believing you brought it up just because you wanted to compliment Belichick.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

talking about Welker being a legit offensive weapon

He isn't. Any good defensive team finds ways to shut him down. I'm actually beginning to hate Welker because the love he gets is ridiculous.

[badfish22]

Matt Cassel looked pretty decent with the great in perfect gameplanning and playcalling.

Consecutive 400 yard games tbh

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

stretch, how many superbowls would a Manning Belichick duo have won? Could they have run off a decade straight as superbowl champions?

[stretch]

You're trying to argue Manning is better than Brady, so the only reason you bring up Bill Belichick's system would be to try and slight Brady. I have a hard time believing you brought it up just because you wanted to compliment Belichick.

1. this isnt the only argument I brought up. you just turned into a poon and got mad that i pointed out that belichick is a good coach who implemented a good system in New England.

2. it's not to slight Brady at all. again, I said that it benefitted him to help him succeed, the way having weapons benefitted Manning to help him succeed. if my intent was to slight Brady, I would make fun of his gy ass haircut. but thats not my intent, and honestly, while I used to despise Brady, I have grown into a big fan of his over the past few years, and while I'm not a Pats fan at all, I do like seeing Brady succeed. He's a of a QB, and I'm not one to hate on someone simply because they are good.

[stretch]

He isn't. Any good defensive team finds ways to shut him down. I'm actually beginning to hate Welker because the love he gets is ridiculous.

I agree he gets too much love, and I think his tricks only work in the slot. But you cant really ask for a better slot receiver in the league, and thats what makes him a weapon.

[stretch]

stretch, how many superbowls would a Manning Belichick duo have won? Could they have run off a decade straight as superbowl champions?

2 decades

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I agree he gets too much love, and I think his tricks only work in the slot. But you cant really ask for a better slot receiver in the league, and thats what makes him a weapon.

Put Anquan Boldin in Welker's position it's scary to think of what he does.

[badfish22]

If Matt Cassel can put up consecutive 400 yd games, Manning might do it for a couple seasons straight.

[stretch]

stretch, how many superbowls would a Manning Belichick duo have won? Could they have run off a decade straight as superbowl champions?

in all seriousness, I think they would have won more than Bill and Brady did

there is nothing that Brady does, that Manning can't do

but there are things Manning does, that Brady hasn't proven he can do, such as consistently complete the tough passes Manning does, run the offense and call plays on his own, and he is physically inferior to Manning as well.

[stretch]

Put Anquan Boldin in Welker's position it's scary to think of what he does.

I agree, but Boldin is a #1 type of receiver. Welker is more of a #2 or #3. For a #3 receiver, you can't really ask for better than Welker.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

1. this isnt the only argument I brought up. you just turned into a poon and got mad that i pointed out that belichick is a good coach who implemented a good system in New England.

Well in that case I'll make a Bill Belichick appreciation thread.

2. it's not to slight Brady at all. again, I said that it benefitted him to help him succeed, the way having weapons benefitted Manning to help him succeed. if my intent was to slight Brady, I would make fun of his gy ass haircut. but thats not my intent, and honestly, while I used to despise Brady, I have grown into a big fan of his over the past few years, and while I'm not a Pats fan at all, I do like seeing Brady succeed. He's a of a QB, and I'm not one to hate on someone simply because they are good.

The weapons around Manning helped Manning put up gaudy MVP stats. Belichick's system helped Brady succeed but it did nothing to help Brady win MVPs because it's not a system that lends itself to a QB putting up great numbers at all. It's a system that compliments a great defense and great kicker perfectly whereas it stays on the field, puts enough points on the boards, and limits turnovers. Once Brady was allowed to air it out because the defense sucked, he started putting up great numbers.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

there is nothing that Brady does, that Manning can't do

Except for lead game winning drives in the superbowl.

[BUMP]

>my face when dirk4mvp made a TT reference

[stretch]

The weapons around Manning helped Manning put up gaudy MVP stats. Belichick's system helped Brady succeed but it did nothing to help Brady win MVPs because it's not a system that lends itself to a QB putting up great numbers at all. It's a system that compliments a great defense and great kicker perfectly whereas it stays on the field, puts enough points on the boards, and limits turnovers. Once Brady was allowed to air it out because the defense sucked, he started putting up great numbers.

awesome, you actually debated by use of reasoning and logic.

I agree with this all as well, although even when Brady got his chance to air it out, only once has he really put up Manning-esqe numbers, and still wasn't able to do it as efficiently as Manning did the year he went ballistic.

And basically this entire discussion we have had, is why it boils down to me choosing Manning over Brady, basically over intangibles, such as Manning being superior physically, being a more precise passer, and seeming to have a higher football IQ as evidenced by his ability to run the offense and call plays now.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

awesome, you actually debated by use of reasoning and logic.

I agree with this all as well, although even when Brady got his chance to air it out, only once has he really put up Manning-esqe numbers, and still wasn't able to do it as efficiently as Manning did the year he went ballistic.

Post-2007 Brady is a worse QB than Manning, I'm not debating that.

He had a higher completion % than Manning's best year, less interceptions, and his team averaged more PPG.