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  1. #1
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    By RACHEL ZOLL, AP Religion Writer Rachel Zoll, Ap Religion Writer – Tue Sep 28, 12:02 am ET

    A new survey of Americans' knowledge of religion found that atheists, agnostics, Jews and Mormons outperformed Protestants and Roman Catholics in answering questions about major religions, while many respondents could not correctly give the most basic tenets of their own faiths.

    Forty-five percent of Roman Catholics who participated in the study didn't know that, according to church teaching, the bread and wine used in Holy Communion is not just a symbol, but becomes the body and blood of Christ.

    More than half of Protestants could not identify Martin Luther as the person who inspired the Protestant Reformation. And about four in 10 Jews did not know that Maimonides, one of the greatest rabbis and intellectuals in history, was Jewish.

    [Related: Texas resolution on Islam]

    The survey released Tuesday by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life aimed to test a broad range of religious knowledge, including understanding of the Bible, core teachings of different faiths and major figures in religious history. The U.S. is one of the most religious countries in the developed world, especially compared to largely secular Western Europe, but faith leaders and educators have long lamented that Americans still know relatively little about religion.

    Respondents to the survey were asked 32 questions with a range of difficulty, including whether they could name the Islamic holy book and the first book of the Bible, or say what century the Mormon religion was founded. On average, participants in the survey answered correctly overall for half of the survey questions.

    Atheists and agnostics scored highest, with an average of 21 correct answers, while Jews and Mormons followed with about 20 accurate responses. Protestants overall averaged 16 correct answers, while Catholics followed with a score of about 15.

    Not surprisingly, those who said they attended worship at least once a week and considered religion important in their lives often performed better on the overall survey. However, level of education was the best predictor of religious knowledge. The top-performing groups on the survey still came out ahead even when controlling for how much schooling they had completed.

    [Related: Marriages in '09 at record low]

    On questions about Christianity, Mormons scored the highest, with an average of about eight correct answers out of 12, followed by white evangelicals, with an average of just over seven correct answers. Jews, along with atheists and agnostics, knew the most about other faiths, such as Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and Judaism. Less than half of Americans know that the Dalai Lama is Buddhist, and less than four in 10 know that Vishnu and Shiva are part of Hinduism.

    The study also found that many Americans don't understand cons utional restrictions on religion in public schools. While a majority know that public school teachers cannot lead classes in prayer, less than a quarter know that the U.S. Supreme Court has clearly stated that teachers can read from the Bible as an example of literature.

    "Many Americans think the cons utional restrictions on religion in public schools are tighter than they really are," Pew researchers wrote.

    The survey of 3,412 people, conducted between May and June of this year, had a margin of error of plus or minus 2.5 percentage points, while the margins of error for individual religious groups was higher.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_rel_re..._literacy_poll
    not a terribly shocking poll

  2. #2
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    not a terribly shocking poll
    Most Americans can't name the Vice President, but somehow the author thinks it is news that they don't know who Vishnu is?

    I'd like to see the survey results - rather than this interpretation.

    Doesn't surprise me about Catholics. I was raised RC.

    Seriously for FAR too late in my life, when the Priest or reader would announce a reading:

    "A reading from the 1st letter of Paul to the Thessalonians."

    I thought there must be a stack of letters in the Vatican that they were copying from.

    Had a real "oh no " moment after I started dating a Protestant and actually READ a Bible. (Not slamming all Catholics; just pointing out personal experience)

    Doesn't surprise me about Atheists being able to answer the most questions. Many of them have developed a religion that is, essentially, mocking, ridiculing and deriding the faith and beliefs of others. Can't do that effectively without study (and being on the right mailing lists).

  3. #3
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Most Americans can't name the Vice President, but somehow the author thinks it is news that they don't know who Vishnu is?

    I'd like to see the survey results - rather than this interpretation.

    Doesn't surprise me about Catholics. I was raised RC.

    Seriously for FAR too late in my life, when the Priest or reader would announce a reading:

    "A reading from the 1st letter of Paul to the Thessalonians."

    I thought there must be a stack of letters in the Vatican that they were copying from.

    Had a real "oh no " moment after I started dating a Protestant and actually READ a Bible. (Not slamming all Catholics; just pointing out personal experience)

    Doesn't surprise me about Atheists being able to answer the most questions. Many of them have developed a religion that is, essentially, mocking, ridiculing and deriding the faith and beliefs of others. Can't do that effectively without study (and being on the right mailing lists).
    Or you could come to the more logical conclusion that their increased knowledge on the faith has led them away from it.

  4. #4
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Or you could come to the more logical conclusion that their increased knowledge on the faith has led them away from it.
    That plus the fact that demographically Atheists are better educated.

    BUT THEY ARE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL

  5. #5
    Believe. BlairForceDejuan's Avatar
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    Yeah. In my experience, once I started learning about the religions from 3k years ago and how modern day people mock them it was too hard not to think our accepted religions were no different.

  6. #6
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    @Manny:

    I have a hard time seeing how your begged question (incompatibility of religion and logic) is any better than 101A's (atheists are driven by their antipathy to religion learn about it.) At least 101A hedged his own bet.

  7. #7
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    Most Americans can't name the Vice President, but somehow the author thinks it is news that they don't know who Vishnu is?
    I'd say that Vishnu being part of Hinduism is at least as memorable as Joe Biden.

    I'd like to see the survey results - rather than this interpretation.
    You could go to the Pew Research web site. It's probably posted there.

    Doesn't surprise me about Atheists being able to answer the most questions. Many of them have developed a religion that is, essentially, mocking, ridiculing and deriding the faith and beliefs of others. Can't do that effectively without study (and being on the right mailing lists).
    If atheists developed a religion, they would no longer be atheists. Perhaps you meant culture? I know of no religion that doesn't require belief.

  8. #8
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    @Manny:

    I have a hard time seeing how your begged question (incompatibility of religion and logic) is any better than 101A's (atheists are driven by their antipathy to religion learn about it.) At least 101A hedged his own bet.

    manny argues about as much metaphysics as anyone else on this board.

  9. #9
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    If atheists developed a religion, they would no longer be atheists.
    Some atheists are evangelical in their unbelief and zealous to deprive others of their belief, like sectaries. That's not pulled from the air.

  10. #10
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    @Manny:

    I have a hard time seeing how your begged question (incompatibility of religion and logic) is any better than 101A's (atheists are driven by their antipathy to religion learn about it.) At least 101A hedged his own bet.
    From that poll? Of course you can't derive that. From the fact that I've yet to see a religion with a logical basis I can easily see a correlation that as one gains more knowledge on a religion they're able to see its non logical basis.

    I've never seen an argument that when someone dissociated themselves from an idea they learn more about it and that seems very counterintuitive for to me.

    Edit: Actually considering you should always go with the simpler explanation - everything being equal - I stand that my statement is more logical than 101a's in the context of the poll.

  11. #11
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Some atheists are evangelical in their unbelief and zealous to deprive others of their belief, like sectaries. That's not pulled from the air.
    No but its also fairly irrelevant if the only metric you have is "some". Some atheists also have brown hair.

  12. #12
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Being agnostic, I'm cool with the results of that survey.

  13. #13
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    From that poll? Of course you can't derive that. From the fact that I've yet to see a religion with a logical basis I can easily see a correlation that as one gains more knowledge on a religion they're able to see its non logical basis.

    I've never seen an argument that when someone dissociated themselves from an idea they learn more about it and that seems very counterintuitive for to me.

    Edit: Actually considering you should always go with the simpler explanation - everything being equal - I stand that my statement is more logical than 101a's in the context of the poll.
    It does seem counterintuitive on the surface. However, sometimes minds aren't really allowed to explore until they are unbound. Freed from the stigma of Doubting Thomas and cast into the (relatively) free role of the unbeliever, certainly allows the exploration of questions not contained in the theistic dogma one may have escaped from.

  14. #14
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    From that poll? Of course you can't derive that. From the fact that I've yet to see a religion with a logical basis I can easily see a correlation that as one gains more knowledge on a religion they're able to see its non logical basis.

    I've never seen an argument that when someone dissociated themselves from an idea they learn more about it and that seems very counterintuitive for to me.

    Edit: Actually considering you should always go with the simpler explanation - everything being equal - I stand that my statement is more logical than 101a's in the context of the poll.
    but your assertion that your argument is more logical depends on a unverifiable proposition which commits the same sin that you claim 101 A to be making.

  15. #15
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    I think you're all right.

  16. #16
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    Some atheists are evangelical in their unbelief and zealous to deprive others of their belief, like sectaries. That's not pulled from the air.
    Perhaps, but that does make it "religious". Religion includes a set of practices and guidelines that one abides by, and usually includes a belief in something supernatural/unexplainable.

    Just because there are a few atheists who ridicule/insult other religions doesn't make atheism itself a religion, anymore than Patriots fans create a new religion when they insult the Jets.

  17. #17
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    Being agnostic, I'm cool with the results of that survey.
    Agnostic atheist, you mean.

  18. #18
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    I think you're all right.
    We all think you're right too.

  19. #19
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    Doesn't surprise me about Atheists being able to answer the most questions. Many of them have developed a religion that is, essentially, mocking, ridiculing and deriding the faith and beliefs of others. Can't do that effectively without study (and being on the right mailing lists).
    Why would you throw this out there as if it's the norm for many atheists to mock, ridicule, and deride the faith and belief of others?

    Do you think that atheists study religions for the sole purpose of ridicule or do you think that they had already knowledge of these religions before they became atheists?

    I've had my share of "oh " moments after reading the Bible, but apparently not in the same way as you.

  20. #20
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    but your assertion that your argument is more logical depends on a unverifiable proposition which commits the same sin that you claim 101 A to be making.
    How so? Religion is illogical by nature so it is very sound logic to assume one would be turned off on an illogical idea with information about the idea.

  21. #21
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    How so? Religion is illogical by nature so it is very sound logic to assume one would be turned off on an illogical idea with information about the idea.

    i think your are making up the rules of logic as you go along. if one is just looking at what you are saying in terms of analytical logic you are making assertions that can not avoid being classified as metaphysical. it is akin to the logical positivists that tried to assert that the only meaningful premises were those that could be verified analytically or empirically. the problem was that that very premise itself could be not be verified analytically or empirically. you are trying to qualify what language can be meaningful but you are doing so on metaphysical terms.

  22. #22
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    How so? Religion is illogical by nature so it is very sound logic to assume one would be turned off on an illogical idea with information about the idea.
    Getting into murky territory there Manny.

    Religions may have specific tenets/facts that are illogical, but religion tends to be alogical (outside the boundaries of logic) in many instances, and instead fulfills an emotional/spiritual need. For instance, if you are hungry for Skittles and buy some to satisfy that want, would you say that was "logical"?

  23. #23
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Why would anything be outside the bounds of logic? Perhaps this is something I'm ignorant about, but whether you label it metaphysical or alogical it seems to me simpley a way to carve out a niche for religion but would that not in and of itself imply it is not logical?

  24. #24
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    Why would anything be outside the bounds of logic? Perhaps this is something I'm ignorant about, but whether you label it metaphysical or alogical it seems to me simpley a way to carve out a niche for religion but would that not in and of itself imply it is not logical?
    I'll make this easy for you.

    I prefer Mountain Dew over Coca-Cola, so I purchase Mountain Dew instead. Is that decision "logical"?

    I believe Mountain Dew tastes better than Coca-Cola. Is that belief "logical"?

  25. #25
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Good example. I see your point.

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