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China has to grow their economy 8% a year just to keep up with population growth. They will continue to artificially keep their currency down to stimulate exports.
@ parts changer. That cracks me up.
China has to grow their economy 8% a year just to keep up with population growth. They will continue to artificially keep their currency down to stimulate exports.
But the power isn't smooth.
Wow...
What a stupid assumption!
My job entails far more than just changing parts, but troubleshooting as well. various types of UPS' were just support equipment I had to know.
Yes, there are no brushes. Control is triggerd with sensors, and often uses pulse width modulation from a control circuit. An early common retail example are direct drive turn tables. Modern hard drives, DVD players, computer fans, etc. operate this way as well. The simplest just use hall effect sensors to activate the magnets.
Why is it good for a laugh? You think it's something else?
Its proof that you don't know what you are talking about and why I brought it up. Think about it. You couldn't answer simple questions. The primary reason is power efficiency. You didn't have a clue. It greatly reduces the cost of high tension wires. However, the mathematics of trigonometry are important too, adding the power to get a smooth steady noise free power.
The reason I brought it up... Your statement that it's stored as rotary motion.... Stored... Give me a break. Wind energy isn't stored with rotary motion, i.e. flywheel.
^^^^Parts Changer
What types of drugs are you on right now for that to be funny?^^^^Parts Changer
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I will say that two-phase diagram makes no sense. Why do they have both phases in combination, rather than contra (ie. phase 1's wave hits the top as phase 2 hits it's lowest point, and vice versa)? Of course if they're in phase together you're going to have massive es as they add to each other than nothing as they both drop.
I mean, the phases in the 3-phase diagram aren't all running together, after all.
What's the problem with this statement? I mean, I'm no physics major, but I could see the theory behind taking, say, wind energy and putting it into a flywheel to store it as a different form of energy (in this case, rotational).
Dumb it down for me, if you would. Why couldn't you convert wind energy (which is created by the rotation of the windmill AFAIK) and store it using rotational energy?
You absolutely could but whether or not its a efficient or practical is another. Fuzzy addressed this himself and WC is just stammering on about this non issue even though Fuzzy has said its not practical. we could store wind energy but I don't think he said we should store it in that fashion.
Perhaps I just didn't read back far enough in the thread, but did someone ever explain why this whole thing about whether or not wind energy can be stored efficiently is a big deal?
If you've got a power grid hooked up to a bunch of different types of power plants, wind/coal/hydro/nuke/solar/geothermal/whatever, then on days where there's no wind wouldn't the loss of generation capacity from wind power just be made up by increasing output from the other sources?
I'm just not seeing storing wind energy as some kind of major stumbling block. Am I missing something?
That's pretty much what everyone but WC was getting at earlier. I was just asking why WC thought wind energy couldn't translate to rotational energy.
My point is that it does not matter. You do not store power for fuel consuming plants either.
All power plants are taken offline from time to time for all kinds of reasons. They run at a very high efficiency but wind runs at a very high efficiency as well. 95%.
You have to plan and balance loads either way.
You missed the point at the beginning. I have tried to tell you that from your first fixation on rotational motion. Everyone else here understands that.
And three phase and efficiency of transmission are not optimized. We can have the discussion on power loss too if you want to. Its pretty ing pointless but hey...
When you do not know what the role of a fly wheel is in an electrical power supply for the place where you work at then that does shows that while you may work on the machines you do not know what they do.
That makes you a parts changer.
Going down the manufacturers list is not troubleshooting.
I haven't seen two and three phase electric chit chat since since high school...
I remember having to wound up our own transformers, counting the number of loops.. Scott-T transformers, solid-state inverters.... Make it stop!!!
Whe we are talking power, the formula is voltage squared divided by resistance. There can be negavive voltage, but not negative power. Remember, I squared the voltage. -1 x -1 = 1 just like 1 x 1 = 1.
Correct, a three phase system is more power efficient.
I'm not sure what you are going for, but at 120 degrees apart, and intentionally so. Allowing for maximum power at all times, rather than the up and down of single phase and split single phase makes for far more efficient designs.
Two phase as a term isn't really used. However, if you take your circle/phase relationship, there are 360 degrees. In a polyphase system, if you evenly divide, you get 180 degree separation, 120, 90, 72 degrees, etc. the 180 degree example that I called two phase is equivalent to a home's 120 volt outlets, but a Dryer, baseboard heater, water heater, range, etc. use both incoming wires to a home, which effectively are each 120 volts, but 180 degrees apart, giving 240 AC.
You could, but it isn't done that way. Where would you put the flywheel anyway? Would you mount it atop a windmill with all it's gyroscopic forces? Without two at opposing directions, wouldn't the precession be unhealthy for such a structure?
What type of brownout would you expect if suddenly, you had the wind die for a local 200 megawatt wind farm? The grid compensates by increasing oil, gas, coal powers, but none of this is immediate. Any commercial or household useage es are small compared to a sudden loss of input power, and don't need any immediate compensation.
That's not how I understood the question. It starts as rotational power, as does anything that turns the alternator generating the power.
And if we could plan for the wind patterns, sudden stops and starts, it would be more viable.
I know what it was used for. Apparently you don't understand it's necessity.
No, it makes your mind so limited that you cannot think past simple issues.
I seldom use a troubleshooting guide. I have more than 30 years experience troubleshooting. You are really dumb making such statement of me.
Hey I find all of this highly fascinating. I had heard the thing about three phases before, but never quite understood why they did it that way until WC posted the graph, showing how it normalizes the power.I haven't seen two and three phase electric chit chat since since high school...
I remember having to wound up our own transformers, counting the number of loops.. Scott-T transformers, solid-state inverters.... Make it stop!!!
I think electricity is quite fascinating and bought a nifty little science set for my kids that lets them make electromagnets and so forth. My 7 year old thought it was the coolest thing in the world to essentially make a flashlight using some wire, a battery and a small bulb.
Since my wife is studying organic chemistry, we also bought one of those little "construct a molucule using balls with holes and sticks" sets. I even started trying to teach him about the known phases of matter, to build on the three they are teaching him in school. Not sure he quite gets it all, but it is the funnest thing in the world to see him occasionally "get it".
Anyways, 'nuff about that.
You can actually. There are places in the continantal US, especially off-shore, where the wind blows 90%+ of the time.
Average wind speeds in various places has been extensively mapped, and that data is readily available.
That and simple geographic dispersion will effectively mitigate that particular drawback.
A lot easier to mitigate than say, hundreds of thousands of tons of coal ash, and millions of tons of mine trailings.
But it's not 100%. See my point? The wind can suddenly calm. Without a large enough flywheel to maintain near full power for a couple seconds, the grid doesn't have time to compensate, and you will have brownouts and outages when we actually start relying on them for any large percentage of the community power.
As I said before the wind in many places blows at a fairly constant speed 90%+ of the time, and maps of these average wind speeds are readily available, being composites of large amounts of data.
What do you think the probability is of a sudden, unpredicted cessation of wind over a large area is, given the ready availability of accurate forecasting data?
Such events MUST be considered in the overall planning of a system, but can be effectively mitigated so the odds of such a disruption effectively approach zero. Indeed, the very act of building more wind capacity over a larger area mitigates the risk.
Although a valid concern to be integrated into the system, it is NOT a valid cause to simply not build wind power in the first place.
How realistic is it that a wind farm putting out 200MW would drop to 0 instantaneously? I don't think wind behaves that way where it's blowing 30mph one second and 0mph the next. Plus, we do have an ability to predict the weather. Not with perfection, but certainly we can look far enough ahead to cover the amount of time it takes to crank up the output from other generation sources.
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