Let's see your top 20 all time NBA players

[Darrin]

These lists are so ridiculous because we didn't see these guys play. We don't know who made them better or worse, what the best moments of their career were. I know, for instance, the difference between Dirk in Nellie's offense, and in Avery's. I can't know that about Wilt or Russell. So I'm sticking to players I like watching that were great.

My top-20 to watch
1. Tim Duncan--21.1 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 3.2 apg, and 2.3 bpg in 977 games.
2. Ben Wallace--6.2 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.4 apg, 1.3 spg, and 2.1 bpg in 972 games.
3. Kobe Bryant--25.3 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 4.7 apg, and 1.5 spg in 1,021 games.
4. Kevin Garnett--19.8 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 4.2 apg, 1.3 spg, and 1.6 bpg in 1,124 games.
5. Ray Allen--20.5 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 3.7 apg, and 1.2 spg in 1,022 games.
6. Chauncey Billups--15.4 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 5.6 apg, and 1.0 spg in 910 games.
7. Grant Hill--17.8 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 4.5 apg, and 1.3 spg in 868 games.
8. Jason Kidd--13.6 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 9.2 apg, and 2.0 spg in 1,187 games.
9. Rasheed Wallace--14.6 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.8 apg, 1.0 spg, and 1.3 bpg in 1,088 games.
10. Chris Webber--20.7 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 4.2 apg, 1.4 spg, and 1.4 bpg in 831 games.
11. Paul Pierce--22.5 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 3.8 apg, and 1.5 spg in 884 games.
12. Hakeem Olajuwon--21.8 ppg, 11.1 rpg, 2.5 apg, 1.2 spg, and 1.5 bpg in 1,238 games.
13. Larry Johnson--16.2 ppg, 7.5 rpg, and 3.3 apg in 707 games.
14. Alonzo Mourning--17.1 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 1.1 apg, and 2.8 bpg in 838 games.
15. Dennis Rodman--7.3 ppg, 13.1 rpg, and 1.8 apg in 911 games.
16. Jerry Stackhouse--18.0 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 3.6 apg, and 1.0 spg in 896 games.
17. Kevin Johnson--17.9 ppg, 9.1 apg, 3.3 rpg, and 1.5 spg in 735 games.
18. Clyde Drexler--20.4 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 5.6 apg, and 2.0 spg in 1,086 games.
19. Shawn Kemp--14.6 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 1.6 apg, 1.1 spg, and 1.2 bpg in 1,051 games.
20. Baron Davis--16.7 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 7.4 apg, and 1.9 spg in 748 games.

[HarlemHeat37]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*
3. Wilt Chamberlain*
4. Magic Johnson*
5. Larry Bird*
6. Bill Russell*
7. Tim Duncan
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Moses Malone*
12. Karl Malone
13. Julius Erving*
14. Oscar Robertson*
15. David Robinson
16. Kevin Garnett
17. Charles Barkley
18. Willis Reed*
19. Jerry West*
20. John Havlicek*


*Didn't see them play in their primes, basing it off accolades/stats/clips/overall research/opinions..

You can pretty much around with anybody on the list from 12-20..

[Darrin]

what a re ed list, you've been watching since 96' yet you leave off MJ? lol wtf

'90. You have me confused with someone else. The list is players I appreciated who were good. It's not about "who's the best."

[BRHornet45]

sons I don't feel like typing out a list right now, but one thing is for damn sure ... Kobe and Duncan have absolutely NO BUSINESS being ranked in the top 10 like some of you put them. Duncan, top 15 maybe, but more likely somewhere between 15-20th ... Kobe, top 40 at best.

[badfish22]

The list is players I appreciated who were good. It's not about "who's the best."

Of course it is.

[fevertrees]

Richard Hamilton is definitely in the top 20 for me

[Koolaid_Man]

sons I don't feel like typing out a list right now, but one thing is for damn sure ... Kobe and Duncan have absolutely NO BUSINESS being ranked in the top 10 like some of you put them. Duncan, top 15 maybe, but more likely somewhere between 15-20th ... Kobe, top 40 at best.

I feel ya BRHornet...Kobe being in the top 40 is like saying you get pussy on the regular...both of which just aren't happening...

[TheMACHINE]

Thanks

[lefty]

lol at " Manu Stopper "

[Baseline]

In no particular order....

Elgin Baylor 1958-59
Wilt Chamberlain 1959-60 *
Jerry West 1960-61
Oscar Robertson 1960-61
John Havlicek 1962-63
Elvin Hayes 1968-69
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1969-70 *
Julius Erving 1971-72
Moses Malone 1974-75
Larry Bird 1979-80 *
Magic Johnson 1979-80 *
Michael Jordan 1984-85 *
Hakeem Olajuwon 1984-85
Karl Malone 1985-86
Shaquille O'Neal 1992-93
Tim Duncan
John Stockton
Bob Pet
Bill Russell
Bob Cousy

[Killakobe81]

1. Jordan
2. Magic
3. kareem
4. Kobe
5. Duncan
6. Bird
7. hakeem
8. Shaq
9. Isiah
10. Moses
11. KG
12. Malone
13. Barkley
14. Ewing
15. Dirk
16. Lebron (jumps to 11 with le cracks top 5 with multiples)
17. Stockton
18. Pippen
19. Kidd
20. Miller or Payton off the top of my head ...

[Rummpd]

Laughable and sublime not to include Russell! I supposed 20+ rebounds a game plus the best shotblocker for his size ever plus the best compe or ever (and the only man ever to relatively shut down Wilt) is inane.

Where is Duncan? (arguebly a top ten) Where is Kobe - also a legit top ten discussant?

Patrick Ewing over David Robinson on any list?????? (Wake me when Ewing ever had a Quadruble Double) Ha Ha Ha


Robinson was the starting center on the dream team for a reason. He was that damm good.

Give me Russell, Duncan, Kobe, and Robinson and any 8 of great players of all time and they could compete with any team ever composed. One could pair those 4 + James + Wade + plus 6 other greats not on your list and they would probably beat any 12 you can pull out of your list.

[jag]

sons I don't feel like typing out a list right now, but one thing is for damn sure ... Kobe and Duncan have absolutely NO BUSINESS being ranked in the top 10 like some of you put them. Duncan, top 15 maybe, but more likely somewhere between 15-20th ... Kobe, top 40 at best.

Considering how dominant Shaq was in his prime, he has to at least be considered for the top 10. Now when you compare Duncan and Shaq I could easily make a case for Duncan being a better career player. How then could you say Duncan has "NO BUSINESS" being in the top 10?

And not putting Kobe in the top 15 is a joke.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Laughable and sublime not to include Russell! I supposed 20+ rebounds a game plus the best shotblocker for his size ever plus the best compe or ever (and the only man ever to relatively shut down Wilt) is inane.

Where is Duncan? (arguebly a top ten) Where is Kobe - also a legit top ten discussant?

Patrick Ewing over David Robinson on any list?????? (Wake me when Ewing ever had a Quadruble Double) Ha Ha Ha

If you read my post carefully you would see why there is no Tim or Kobe. I stopped with the NBA top 50 players at 50 years. I also said they would go in when that list is updated.

As for Russell, his omission is explained as well. Back in his time he wasn't rated that highly, see Philadelphia Chamberlain's post as well. We were both around back then. You folks who never saw him play overrate him.

As far as Ewing over Robinson, hey, it's my list. Where's yours?

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Guys, don't criticize other people for their choices. Just post your top 20 lists, thanks.

[Rummpd]

Leaving off Russell is sublime and disrespectful to one of the games all time greats. You lost everyone there.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Leaving off Russell is sublime and disrespectful to one of the games all time greats. You lost everyone there.

I disagree. I started the thread for people to post their lists. I left Russell off to make a point, which has been explained. Read in this thread what I and others said, it may clarify my opinion, and explain what went on in that era. One person omitted MJ, and another Wilt. So what? That's their lists.

[Jose Canseco]

Patrick Ewing over David Robinson on any list?????? (Wake me when Ewing ever had a Quadruble Double) Ha Ha Ha

Doesn't matter whether I agree or disagree with your actual point, but using a "quadruble double" game as an argument is just asinine. One game doesn't make a player great or not. The lack of having a "guadruble double" doesn't make a player not great. Lest we start talking about Joe Fulks being one of the greatest scorers ever because he has a 60 point game.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Considering how dominant Shaq was in his prime, he has to at least be considered for the top 10. Now when you compare Duncan and Shaq I could easily make a case for Duncan being a better career player. How then could you say Duncan has "NO BUSINESS" being in the top 10?

And not putting Kobe in the top 15 is a joke.

Anyone on a top 20 should be considered potential top 10, or at least once honestly belonged there because an adherent can still use the same old arguments for their inclusion.

I don't know who to put in my top 10. If I toss into my top 20 Tim, Kobe, Russell, and LeBron, I have to take 4 out. Likely those 4 could be Hayes, Frazier, Ewing, and Lucas. Now, you have 4 arguable top 10 players added right in the mix, plus 5 players most everyone considers to be a lock; Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Magic, and MJ.

See, it gets messy. However, being considered top 10 is almost as good as belonging there. Not that many have a firm foothold as legitimate bonifide top 10.

[Killakobe81]

I did not include players i never saw ...so Wilt, Oscar,Rissell etc are not on mine. Doesnt mean they werent greater ... but I refuse to base my list off of boxscores or grainy footage.

[Rummpd]

i agree this is a hard thing to do and sorry to be so hard on the original poster. My list is the 20 that I would to pick from to compose an all time dream team:


Centers: Wilt, Kareem, Russell, Shaq, D. Robinson, and the Dream (6)
Forwards: Duncan, Bird, K. Malone, LeBron, Baylor, Barkley, Garnett (7)
Guards: Jordan, Magic, West, Kobe, Oscar, Wade, Cousy (7)

Hardest to leave off: Havlicek, Pe , and Lucas. I also believe that Kidd, Stockton and Nash are all somewhat under-appreciated for their greatness and could all deserve to be on the list. Durant when he has another couple of great years - will have to replace someone on the top 20 - leaving probably a hard pick between D. Robinson, Barkley or Garnett.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

i agree this is a hard thing to do and sorry to be so the original poster. My list is the 20 that I would to pick from to compose an dream :


Centers: Wilt, Kareem, Russell, Shaq, D. Robinson, and the Dream (6)
Forwards: , Bird, K. Malone, LeBron, Baylor, Barkley, Garnett (7)
Guards: Jordan, Magic, West, Kobe, Oscar, Wade, Cousy (7)

Hardest to leave off: Havlicek, Pe , and Lucas. I also believe that Kidd, Stockton and Nash are all somewhat under-appreciated for their greatness and could all deserve to be on the list. Durant when he has another couple of great years - will have to replace someone on the top 20 - leaving probably a hard pick between D. Robinson, Barkley or Garnett.

Hey, no problem, thanks for contributing. I, and others, should also sort by position.

A few points. The era I began watching was offense oriented, at least as perceived by the fans and the media. The league agreed, they used to have a territorial draft pick rule, allowing NBA teams to draft local college players to help at the gate. Boston got Tommy Heinsohn in 1956, and Cincinatti chose Oscar Robertson in 1960 this way. There are countless other examples. I still have somewhat of a bias toward offense in my selections as a result of the way I learned about the game, but not always. I added Bil Russell, Kobe Bryant, and Tim Duncan. I removed Willis Reed, Walt Frazier, and Jerry Lucas. I kept Ewing over Reed because his career was longer. I chose Gervin over Frazier, but they are about equal. Frazier was more well-rounded, but Gervin piled up the points.

Adjusted Top 20, by entrance into pro ball:

Bill Russell 1956-57
Elgin Baylor 1958-59
Wilt Chamberlain 1959-60
Jerry West 1960-61
Oscar Robertson 1960-61
John Havlicek 1962-63
Elvin Hayes 1968-69
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1969-70
Julius Erving 1971-72
George Gervin 1972-73
Moses Malone 1974-75
Larry Bird 1979-80
Magic Johnson 1979-80
Michael Jordan 1984-85
Hakeem Olajuwon 1984-85
Patrick Ewing 1985-86
Karl Malone 1985-86
Shaquille O'Neal 1992-93
Kobe Bryant 1996-97
Tim Duncan 1997-98

Top 5. I more or less am following Jamstone's idea. Place players by tiers. The order of the top 3 is arguable. I believe Magic to be better than Bird. Also, his championship window was longer by several years, and he won more les. A strike against both is they played on stacked teams. The 1984-87 Celtics were considered to have a better starting 5, but the Lakers were deeper.

1-3 Wilt Chamberlain 1959-60
1-3 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1969-70
1-3 Michael Jordan 1984-85
4 Magic Johnson 1979-80
5 Larry Bird 1979-80

6-15:

Elgin Baylor 1958-59
Jerry West 1960-61
Oscar Robertson 1960-61
John Havlicek 1962-63
Julius Erving 1971-72
Hakeem Olajuwon 1984-85
Karl Malone 1985-86
Shaquille O'Neal 1992-93
Kobe Bryant 1996-97
Tim Duncan 1997-98

16-20. These are players who will begin falling out of the top 20 as newer players gain ground over the next decade; LeBron, Wade, Durant, etc.: Note, I feel fans of Shaq, Tim, and Kobe should be happy to remove Bill from top 10 consideration, it opens up a spot for them to fight for their favorite.

Bill Russell 1956-57
Elvin Hayes 1968-69
George Gervin 1972-73
Moses Malone 1974-75
Patrick Ewing 1985-86

Next, I split players 6-15 into two eras and ranked them:

Note, every one of these players was once a legitimate top 10 all time player, and although some have fallen out, they probably all haven't.

Older era rankings:

1 Oscar Robertson 1960-61
2 Jerry West 1960-61
3 Julius Erving 1971-72
4 Elgin Baylor 1958-59
5 John Havlicek 1962-63

Younger era rankings. Top 3 are close to equal in my mind:

1-3 Hakeem Olajuwon 1984-85
1-3 Shaquille O'Neal 1992-93
1-3 Tim Duncan 1997-98
4 Kobe Bryant 1996-97
5 Karl Malone 1985-86

Now, how to combine 6-15 into one list to finish a top 10. I thought of two ways. Take both one and two players from the old era, then either four or three from the new era to finish a top 10.

Method one, 1 old player, 4 new.

6-9 Oscar Robertson 1960-61
6-9 Hakeem Olajuwon 1984-85
6-9 Shaquille O'Neal 1992-93
6-9 Tim Duncan 1997-98
10 Kobe Bryant 1996-97

I prefer this one, 2 older players, 3 new:

6-9 Oscar Robertson 1960-61
6-9 Hakeem Olajuwon 1984-85
6-9 Shaquille O'Neal 1992-93
6-9 Tim Duncan 1997-98
10 Jerry West 1960-61

This seems to be pretty fair. In either choice, Kobe and West are arguably close, as they should be. For those that underrate West, know this. He and Baylor carried a bunch of scrubs and had to score a load of points every game for the Lakers to have a chance against Russell's stacked teams. They managed to take their ragtag teams to three 7 game series against Boston in the 60's. Think of the 2009 Celtics vs. Bulls playoffs, times 3 for excitement. Robertson, West, and Baylor are top 20 no matter how you slice it, and were once top 5 all time, period.

Now, the next question is, can Shaq, Tim, or Kobe move up in the top 20? Let's examine each one if they ring up again.

If Shaq wins one in his last two years, he would move ahead of everyone he is logjammed with and even replace Bird. If Tim wins another, the exact same thing can happen. Right now, one can argue either may better than Bird, another ring would clinch it. Kobe has an odd situation. If he rings before Shaq or Tim, where to put him? It would at least get him to number 6, and possibly number 5. Would anyone dare to say he would pass Magic? Well, Earvin has said that, but I don't believe the public will. I think Kobe needs to get 7 or 8 rings to move ahead of Magic and Bird for certain. 8 rings could fight for top 4 with Wilt, Kareem, and MJ.

So, my top 20 in some order (ties by earliest year played) is:

1-3 Wilt Chamberlain 1959-60
1-3 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1969-70
1-3 Michael Jordan 1984-85
4 Magic Johnson 1979-80
5 Larry Bird 1979-80
6-9 Oscar Robertson 1960-61
6-9 Hakeem Olajuwon 1984-85
6-9 Shaquille O'Neal 1992-93
6-9 Tim Duncan 1997-98
10 Jerry West 1960-61

11-15:

11 Kobe Bryant 1996-97
12 Julius Erving 1971-72
13 Elgin Baylor 1958-59
14-15 John Havlicek 1962-63
14-15 Karl Malone 1985-86

16-20:

16-20 Bill Russell 1956-57
16-20 Elvin Hayes 1968-69
16-20 George Gervin 1972-73
16-20 Moses Malone 1974-75
16-20 Patrick Ewing 1985-86

If this thread keeps enough interest, I will break my ties.