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That's a hollow argument.. Unless you think KG, Howard, Hakeem, Artest, Mourning, Payton, Robinson didn't have good offensive games. All those people were two way players.. and of course Jordan, though you mentioned him.
Rodman.. there really isn't any debate if people saw the two throughout their career. Rodman could defend every position on the court and do it well.
I can't believe some on here said he was a great rebounder but not a great defender.. I'm guessing these people are just looking up stats and never watched him play in Det.. or Chi.. Or San but I don't think he gave a crap while he was there.
That's a hollow argument.. Unless you think KG, Howard, Hakeem, Artest, Mourning, Payton, Robinson didn't have good offensive games. All those people were two way players.. and of course Jordan, though you mentioned him.
If anything Duncan would of had a much better chance.. it isn't that it favors one way players it is that it favors bigs. That is the only thing it tends to favor.
This. If you talk about Rodman's years with SA or the Bulls, he was a rebounding machine, but his defense slipped. If you take those years, I would say Duncan. However, Rodman's best years as a defender were with Detroit. He was an absolute lock down defender, able to guard anyone on the court. He was able to get under the skin of the opponent and into the head as well. And if you take the years with Detroit, he was a better defender than Duncan.
Uh, that was David "MVP" Robinson that got tea-bagged by the Dream that year.
nice discussion by now...let's thank the troll for it!
lets put together some facts that we know by now (or at least, which I agree a lot on):
1) championships don't count as argument for how great a defensive player is: some put it in as an argument for Rodman over Duncan...then tell us, KG is a better defender than Duncan!...so what?)
2) DPOY-awards shouldn't count in this depate: (putting Bowen at side) the award goes to the guy, that statwise/marketingwise looks as the best defensive player. I dont like overvalueing stats, but they show more than the media voting! if anything, the coaches voting is interesting for this debate.
3) Rodman is the more versatile defender!...BUT does it make him the better defender? IMHO it should count a bit, as Duncan had problems with guys like Dirk and often its nice to have a versatile defender (like we had with Bowen). But don't act, like Rodman defended himself 4 players at a time. I'm fine with Duncan vs. Malone, without the versatility beeing able to take over on Russel for a while.
4) As a one on one defender Rodman is better, even if you trow in an opponent like Malone that should suit both Duncan and Rodman...But its not like Duncan is way worse.
5) Duncan is the better defensive anchor on a team: I could see a league worst defense team with Rodman on it (surounded by guys like Steve Nash, Amare Stoudamire and so on) but its hard to believe a Duncan lead team, would be worse than average with him helping out, closing the lane and so on.
Overall I could even live with saying Rodman was the better defender! If you put a defensive all time team together, Rodman has a great shot making it (next to guys like Bowen, Johnson, Cooper, Russell), while Duncan may not make it (but still has a good shot).
for that matter: what would that team look like IYO? 12 men...all time!
But if there was a draft and the task would be: "Put together the best defensive team possible...Offense doesn't count at all!" I'd take several players over Rodman (and also Bowen), with Duncan beeing one of them!
problem is: Rodman was on the team too and I cant even remember if he tried it himself!Uh, that was David "MVP" Robinson that got tea-bagged by the Dream that year.
It's like calling Jason Kidd a choker while celebrating Keith van Horn!
It was ezau who brought up the 1995 series claiming Rodman was the one getting raped by Olajuwon ... people responded by telling him to get his facts right. As for your observation, you'd have to ask Bob Hill about that.
And lol @ Kidd/Van Horn analogy.
If we don't care about offense...
PG: Stockton
SG: Jordan
SF: Pippen
PF: Rodman
C: Russel
---
Hakeem
Ben Wallace
Micheal Cooper
Jery West
Payton
Chamberlain
Moncrief
Bowen
Mourning
Illegal defense man to man handchecking era? Payton, Pippen, Jordan, Rodman, Olajuwon.
Stockton?
OK, he was a good defender (pesky), but as the starter on a defense only team? I dont see it!
I like most others but wasn't there any place for Dennis Johnson?
This.
And if Rodman stayed more in "pistons" mode i think he would of had a case not only as better than duncan on defense but for the greatest defender of my lifetime ... not sure who THAT is but I think i still go with Duncan in this debate and Hakeem overall.
Duncan has character & will battle till the game is over…Rodman was an absolute punk who would get himself thrown out of the game or foul out when things were not going his way….
So the player who's made more All-Defense teams than any other player in NBA history isn't a good enough defender to make your "If we're only talking about defense" team?
That would be a flawed argument on your part.
Duncan gets voted in as a C when he isn't good enough to make it as F. In other words he's only a C on paper when it's convenient for him.
He's made it twice as a center (2008-09 and 2009-10) and 11 other times as a forward -- and 8 times as a First Team forward.
Even if you eliminate the 2 times he's been voted in at center, he's still #1 all-time in All-Defense team selections, tied with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (and Bobby Jones, if you count All-ABA selections).
Awards mean something or they don't. You choose.
FromWayDowntown, awards mean something, yes they do.
Which is why I gave merit to Rodman winning 2 DPOY awards yet Duncan never won a single one.
An All-NBA defense selection is a selection, not an award.
Examples of awards: MVP award, DPOY award, Sixth man of year award..etc
Lol, Anything else?
Where's Epic Fail when you need him?
Epic failure as in FromWayDowntown needing me to explain the difference between awards/selections? Lol..Where's Epic Fail when you need him?
Kobe Bryant - 8 1st team all defense, 2 2nd team all defense
Bruce Bowen - 5 1st team all defense, 3 2nd team all defense
Do you believe Kobe Bryant was a better defender than Bruce Bowen?
hmmmm...... moving goal posts anyone?
All-NBA selections are honors that are comparable to any award.
Go look up the bio of any player that has been an All-NBA and show me it's not listed alongside any other awards.
Your FAIL is reaching epic proportions...
Ratio their years in the league and you'll find the answer...
Losing braincells...phenom?
I simply explained to FromWayDowntown the difference between an award/selection.
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