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Though those 7 last second game winners last regular season came in quite handy later on.
I think I get it; Kobe is just not good enough/consistent enough in the regular season for him to win multiple MVP's....
Though those 7 last second game winners last regular season came in quite handy later on.
I hate the argument that this is a weak era of basketball. Statistically yes, the center position has eroded, but we have better wings and guards now, more athletic 6'5"-6'8" guys than have ever existed before in the NBA. If that's the basis of someone's argument for Kobe only winning 1, they don't have a leg to stand on. Right now IMO is the strongest the NBA has ever been, as far as talent depth. There are players riding the bench right now that would have been insane in the 80s just based on pure athleticism.
Basically what I'm saying is that James White would have averaged 40 PPG and a triple double in the 80s.
I think you're exaggerating quite a bit. No way does James White average more than 38 PPG. But I do think he would have averaged a quadruple double, include steals along with points, rebounds, and assists.Basically what I'm saying is that James White would have averaged 40 PPG and a triple double in the 80s.
You can`t leave out other factors such as :I hate the argument that this is a weak era of basketball. Statistically yes, the center position has eroded, but we have better wings and guards now, more athletic 6'5"-6'8" guys than have ever existed before in the NBA. If that's the basis of someone's argument for Kobe only winning 1, they don't have a leg to stand on. Right now IMO is the strongest the NBA has ever been, as far as talent depth. There are players riding the bench right now that would have been insane in the 80s just based on pure athleticism.
Basically what I'm saying is that James White would have averaged 40 PPG and a triple double in the 80s.
- different rules: no zone D (zone D = open 3`s = offensive stats boosted), handchecking was allowed.
- different officiating; they used to let them play physical basketball in the 80s and 90s.
And less pussies too; just remember Isiah Thomas playing through an ankle injury vs the Lakers and still able to make tough shots.
- less Sternism.
On top of that, players were more fundamentally sound, and had a higher BB IQ.
Yes, there are a lot of gifted players and athletic freaks nowadays, but it`s not enough to make the NBA better; unathletic, slow Larry Bird would own most of them anytime, anywhere
are you saying that Kobe doesnt have basketball IQ, not fundamentally sound and not physical or tough?
Not him in particular; I was talking the league in general
But Kobe is s still a pussy
He's probably one of the few in the NBA that can handle 80's basketball.
no
If he does a lot of vocal flopping today, he would have cried like a baby in the 80`s
(Wait, he`s already done that in 2003)
vocal flopping doesnt mean he cant dish or take the hits. He plays injured and doesnt call for wheelchairs.
He gets clotheslined by Raja bell and just it brushes off. He retaliates back like when he hit Mike Miller.
Your insane if you dont think Kobe plays physical.
Just an example:
Jordan had big games against defensive teams such as NY and Detroit; those teams were very physical, and as I said, there was handchecking back then, and the refs let them play; and those teams were coached by defensive masterminds
I really dont see Kobe dominating those aforementioned Knicks and Pistons teams
Prime Jordan would have averaged 45 ppg in today's NBA: more fouls called, more FT's, more wide open 3's, more Sternism.
Heck, at 38 y/o, he had a 53 pt game, and 2 game winners at the buzzer
That's because no team played physical defense until the 90s. Handchecking was fine because it compensated for a complete lack of defensive cohesion in the pre-Bad Boys era of basketball. Why do you think Detroit started to dominate when they played like that? Because even though they weren't tackling players every play, they were the first team to play hard-nosed 5 man attacking defense.
You're right, Duncan playing through a Finals game on two bad legs and still putting up crazy numbers and Kobe playing an entire game with a busted finger means players are less like "big tough men" nowadays.- different officiating; they used to let them play physical basketball in the 80s and 90s.
And less pussies too; just remember Isiah Thomas playing through an ankle injury vs the Lakers and still able to make tough shots.
Or maybe it's that every injury is publicized to the point of a player who's got a pulled groin and goes out and puts up 8 and 5 instead of 14 and 8 is going to be ridiculed for stepping on the court when he costs his team a game in the waning moments with some missed rebounds or bad possessions.
Wasn't the entire 90s part of the David Stern area, when the NBA was supposedly at it's peak along with the mid 80s?- less Sternism.
So your argument that a top 10 player all time would still get his today is a reason that the 80s were superior? If I recall, Bird destroyed THEN too, even though apparently everyone had crazy fundamentals and played physical defense.On top of that, players were more fundamentally sound, and had a higher BB IQ.
Yes, there are a lot of gifted players and athletic freaks nowadays, but it`s not enough to make the NBA better; unathletic, slow Larry Bird would own most of them anytime, anywhere
I've challenged several people on this board to go back and watch the NBA Finals from the 1980s. Take off your rose tinted glasses about players being checked into the second row as an example of "Good defense" and go watch.
It's no wonder that players had good offensive fundamentals back then. 18 foot jumpshots are given with regularity, in the FINALS. Corner shots are essentially gimmes. Bruce Bowen would have averaged 5 threes a game for his career or more just camped out in his spot over there. There are entire possessions where there is not one aggressive defensive maneuver made, or where players just opt not to cover their man when they catch the ball at the free throw line extended.
Yes, there were harder fouls back then, but just because you can knock a guy on his ass when he's going up for a layup doesn't make you a good defensive player. In fact, I see it as hard fouls being given because no team was defensively sound enough on D without heavy body contact when they needed a stop. It was a compensating factor, not a determinant one. The defensive schemes today vastly outstrip anything we have ever seen in the NBA. You leave a player open on more than one possession and you're going to be grabbing some pine and getting yelled at by the coach... and this is in the regular season, to say nothing of the intensity of the Finals.
Fundamentals are infinitely easier to express when you don't have a defender playing 3 inches off your hip, shadowing every step you make.
I've never understood why it was so awful that Steve Nash won the MVP in 2006. The guy loses Amare Stoudemire to injury for the year. Loses Joe Johnson to free agency. That's about 45 freakin points out the window right there. Their replacements? A career journeyman in Raja Bell and some no-name guy called Boris Diaw. I was here when the Spurs fans were cackling and saying bye bye to Phoenix that year. I remember everyone saying Nash would be absolutely nothing without Amare Stoudemire to pass to...and even I thought the guy was gonna fall on his face. Phoenix's frontcourt was so bad I can't even remember who they were. Kurt Thomas maybe? I don't know. And with that rag tag bunch and all of the new faces Nash still had that team as the 3rd seed in a tough Western Conference. I thought he more than deserved that MVP and this is coming from a guy that generally can't stand one-way players.
oh so your saying Kobe has to be Jordan to be able to play in the 80's. But then again, its easy to say "If Kobe played in this team, blah blah" since its an arguement that can never be proven.
Please love my Kobe
Big man dependent, imo.
Athleticism isn't everything. That's why the "old" unathletic Jazz teams used to walk all over the young, athletic 60 win Laker teams in the late 90's. On paper the Lakers should have crushed those Jazz teamsI hate the argument that this is a weak era of basketball. Statistically yes, the center position has eroded, but we have better wings and guards now, more athletic 6'5"-6'8" guys than have ever existed before in the NBA. If that's the basis of someone's argument for Kobe only winning 1, they don't have a leg to stand on. Right now IMO is the strongest the NBA has ever been, as far as talent depth. There are players riding the bench right now that would have been insane in the 80s just based on pure athleticism.
Basically what I'm saying is that James White would have averaged 40 PPG and a triple double in the 80s.
Please love my Kobe
Big man dependent, imo.
Magic Johnson...big man dependent, imo.
Well, the rigging wasnt necessary back then; the NBA was successful thanks to Magic, Bird, Jordan,Kareem, Isiah, Wilkins, Benard King, Olajuwon, Barkley, etc,,,
It was the golden era of the NBA
But when MJ retired, people started to lose interest; the league needed a new dynasty, a successor to MJ and a classic, renewed rivalry, and this is when the Sternism started to to take off.
So, let's break it down:
- Forced new Jordan: Kobe
- forced dyansty: Lakers 3 peat (Sacramento series*)
- forced renewed rivalry: Lakers-Celtics 2008 (collusions trades, Garnett and Gasol)
And since Stern cares more about the $$$$ than the game itself (and that comment has nothing to do with the fact that he is a Jewish lawyer)...
If you really believe these things, why do you watch the NBA?
Because I have no choice
But seriously, I don't watch as much NBA as I used to; maybe 5 regular season games a year, plus a few playoff games and the Finals (if the matchups don't seem too lopsided)
wow..if you dont watch basketball....then there is no point in me or Cry Havoc even trying to debate on your opinions comparing players today to the 80's.
Its pointless.
You idiot, I started watching less games in 2009/2010
I dont think the league has changed a lot between 2009 and 2010
Oh, and this must belong to you:
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