Fifteen Bad Things with Windpower–and Three Reasons Why

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Some things are difficult to prove. If he is so certain that something he never witnessed cannot happen, then what is that based on?

How many things in life have you witnessed, but don't know how to prove what you witnessed?

He is calling me a liar. For that, I demand he put up or shut up.

No he is asking you for proof. You induced knowledge by making a claim. He is asking for supporting evidence. The American legal system is centered around this idea. The prosecution induces the idea to the court that something is true and has to support it with evidence.

Believe it or not people are not just going to accept what you say as gospel on the internet.

[LnGrrrR]

No he is asking you for proof. You induced knowledge by making a claim. He is asking for supporting evidence. The American legal system is centered around this idea. The prosecution induces the idea to the court that something is true and has to support it with evidence.

Believe it or not people are not just going to accept what you say as gospel on the internet.

Good point on the separation between a person presenting the argument and the argument itself. Zosa called me on a comment in another thread, and I couldn't readily find proof and said as such. I didn't take it personally though.

[Wild Cobra]

No he is asking you for proof. You induced knowledge by making a claim. He is asking for supporting evidence. The American legal system is centered around this idea. The prosecution induces the idea to the court that something is true and has to support it with evidence.

Believe it or not people are not just going to accept what you say as gospel on the internet.

I understand that. Do you understand this:

How many things in life have you witnessed, but don't know how to prove what you witnessed?

He is calling me a liar. For that, I demand he put up or shut up.

[Wild Cobra]

Good point on the separation between a person presenting the argument and the argument itself. Zosa called me on a comment in another thread, and I couldn't readily find proof and said as such. I didn't take it personally though.

But doesn't it piss you off when someone won't let it go?

[LnGrrrR]

But doesn't it piss you off when someone won't let it go?

Eh, if I can't produce for a claim, I state that, and let the reader choose to believe me or not. If they don't believe me, and I haven't provided evidence, I can't really blame them.

Again, they're not calling ME a liar, they're just saying that my argument/deductive skills are faulty. Maybe I remembered something wrong, maybe my analysis is off, etc etc.

I try not to hold grudges too often.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Hey fuzzy...

Check out this:

Capacitors

If that's not enough, the facts about capacitors are readily available. If you don't know how to google, let me know. I'll find more for you.

That has no bearing on capacitors in parallel.

The discussion is about how capacitors are made. Not on how you use capacitors at work.

In parallel there is no increased voltage. If anything there is a decrease because there is going to be a drop because of resistance in the leads. So hey you keep on talking about how you do not want to use too high a voltage on a capacitor when it is very clear that when you increase capacitance it does not increase the voltage.

The discussion is about how you did not know about 1F capacitors and thus how they would have been possible. The nature of voltage in a circuit has been understood for 200 years.

You might as well talk about thermal inversions for how much it applies to the discussion. Nice red herring though.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Eh, if I can't produce for a claim, I state that, and let the reader choose to believe me or not. If they don't believe me, and I haven't provided evidence, I can't really blame them.

Again, they're not calling ME a liar, they're just saying that my argument/deductive skills are faulty. Maybe I remembered something wrong, maybe my analysis is off, etc etc.

I try not to hold grudges too often.

It also does not help when there is evidence to the contrary from a third source.

[Wild Cobra]

That has no bearing on capacitors in parallel.

The discussion is about how capacitors are made. Not on how you use capacitors at work.

In parallel there is no increased voltage. If anything there is a decrease because there is going to be a drop because of resistance in the leads. So hey you keep on talking about how you do not want to use too high a voltage on a capacitor when it is very clear that when you increase capacitance it does not increase the voltage.

The discussion is about how you did not know about 1F capacitors and thus how they would have been possible. The nature of voltage in a circuit has been understood for 200 years.

You might as well talk about thermal inversions for how much it applies to the discussion. Nice red herring though.

You're changing the argument to one I'm not disagreeing with. I never said 1 farad capacitors and above didn't exist. I never claimed you were wrong with that. The points I say you are wrong about, you refuse to address.

please...

Are you really that dumb, or have too much misplaced pride to admit you're wrong?

[MannyIsGod]

For the record, WC cannot prove that winds suddenly stop over a large area based on what he feels. Thats my biggest beef. Yet he maintains its possible based upon a person observation ignoring the inherent flaw that he can't observe a large area all at once nor is he equipped with an anemometer to accurately measure wind speed nor is he tall enough to gather appropriate wind data.

Its not that he's a liar, its that his personal observation is worthless. To follow that up he tossed out a bunch of jargon as he usually does in an effort to back up his claim except that I'm not just a regular forum idiot who sees big words and just assumes they're used correctly. I'm a meteorology student who happens to know how some of this actually works.

[clambake]

on the 3rd tee today the wind was a dead calm.........but the top of the tall pines were whipping about 20 mph.

[MannyIsGod]

on the 3rd tee today the wind was a dead calm.........but the top of the tall pines were whipping about 20 mph.

WC could be 20ft tall for all I know.

[Wild Cobra]

For the record, WC cannot prove that winds suddenly stop over a large area based on what he feels.

I might be able to if I spent enough time, but I'm not going to. I will concede that i am not going to attempt to prove it.

Thats my biggest beef. Yet he maintains its possible based upon a person observation ignoring the inherent flaw that he can't observe a large area all at once nor is he equipped with an anemometer to accurately measure wind speed nor is he tall enough to gather appropriate wind data.

Call it a flaw if you want. After all, you don't know my capacity of observation.

Its not that he's a liar, its that his personal observation is worthless.

To you it is.

To follow that up he tossed out a bunch of jargon as he usually does in an effort to back up his claim except that I'm not just a regular forum idiot who sees big words and just assumes they're used correctly. I'm a meteorology student who happens to know how some of this actually works.

What do you know about wind patterns of an area surrounded by shallow mountains on four sides with a gorge cut through it carrying the mighty Columbia river? A bit farther to the west is the cascade mountain range. The gorge will have violent winds at times. Almost always windy and can blow either direction.

You're right, I don't know all the geophysics that apply here. I simply know the facts I witnessed.

[LnGrrrR]

You're right, I don't know all the geophysics that apply here. I simply know the facts I witnessed.

Surely you can understand why that might not be enough evidence to sway Manny?

[Wild Cobra]

Surely you can understand why that might not be enough evidence to sway Manny?

I don't care. Must he keep razzing me? Why can't he let it go?

[Wild Cobra]

Lumpy...

How long does it take to figure out breakdown voltage and having to put capacitors in series to increase breakdown voltage?

You know what happens to capacitance when you put capacitors in parallel. Do you know what happens when you put them in series?

[Wild Cobra]

[MannyIsGod]

I might be able to if I spent enough time, but I'm not going to. I will concede that i am not going to attempt to prove it.

Call it a flaw if you want. After all, you don't know my capacity of observation.

To you it is.

What do you know about wind patterns of an area surrounded by shallow mountains on four sides with a gorge cut through it carrying the mighty Columbia river? A bit farther to the west is the cascade mountain range. The gorge will have violent winds at times. Almost always windy and can blow either direction.

You're right, I don't know all the geophysics that apply here. I simply know the facts I witnessed.

[CosmicCowboy]

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah but we've seen a total of two patients today and I have to fill my day somehow.

[Wild Cobra]

For being dead, that horse gets around:

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This is how the conversation unfolded:

I was saying wind mills did not store rotational power like a Rotary UPS does. You misunderstood.

As for the rest of your dribble...

Show me a capacitor rated in farads. They are generally rated in micro-farads and below.

You show yourself unknowledgeable again. You make too many foolish assumptions.

As for voltage, 120/240 is nominal. It varies somewhat. How many times you going to expose your ass?

Here is where you start with the capacitor bull .

And for domestic one rail in the breaker is 110 and two is 220 @ 60hz. Every monkey knows that.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/cat_i...apacitors.html

Weeeee......... The machines you change parts on are in the order of e-6 but when you get down to the level of microprocessors they get down to the order as low as e-12. That would be a picofarad.

The only thing being exposed is your myopic knowledge, parts changer.

Now let me expand on this a bit. The minimum voltage the power company is to put out is 220V. If it goes below that then you have a brownout. Any machine that uses said power is based on 110V. There is no random variance. It is between 220V and 240V or it is not working properly.

Ironically, a transformer to regulate the voltage to a steady output involves a capacitor.

Yes, I know. I didn't think Fuzzy would be able to find them. Besides, I also said capacitors are normally rated in microfarads and below. They finally broke the 1 farad point about 20 years ago if I recall correctly. Still, their capacity falls short of batteries, and they fall short of retaining power for any decent time. Have to convert to DC, then back to AC also. When you consider they are halved in value for series, and DC transmission are normally something like 300KV+... Did a quick check, the best out there by Wiki is 20 Wh/Kg. maybe a little better now, but it won't be much.

Either you are stupid or you are lying. I invite anyone to run a google search of "1 farad capacitor." The whole page is full of them. Here is also where you make the completely wrong statement that 1F capacitors were broken into 20 years ago.

This is also where it becomes readily apparent your lack of knowledge. First you start babbling about capacitors in series which is a generally a bad idea but you also start to demonstrate you think capacitors are used just like batteries. The comment about batteries is truly hilarious because you have to apply a voltage to a capacitor before it can store or release current. Thats the whole point.

More on capacitors in series here in a bit.

Bull , if you want a larger capacitance you just add plates in parallel.

And of course you did not think I would find it. You did not know they existed because they are not a part you change in the machines you work on.

Here is where I begin to point out your idiocy.

OK smartypants.

Show me a 300,000 Volt 1 farad capacitor.

Remember, you have to put capacitors in series to increase the voltage. Series capacitors decrease their capacitance. Therefor, if you have to put in series 10,000 capacitors to have a 300,000 volt breakdown voltage, then you have to also have 10,000 of these strings in parallel to maintain the capacitance. That's a total of 100,000,000 capacitors at 1 farad each, or 100,000 of them if they are 1,000 farad capacitors. Another problem, i think this design stops at 3 volts breakdown. Not 30.

This goes to the land of who gives a . Even if I granted that I could not show that, what ing difference does it make? There are still 1F capacitors and they still work in parallel just fine.

There are also ways to increase how many volts a capacitor can handle. They consist of two plates separated by space. Now in that space there can be vacuum where the permeability of space is involved or it can be anything that is not a conductor. Say for example plastic. Now the issue is that they get hot and that breaks down the plastic so you get something more heat resistant.

What you do not do is put them in series especially at high voltage. How a capacitor charges is a differential function. When you put them in series they have different voltages applied to each one. That testy kirchoff works both ways. If there is variance in capacity that causes more voltage to be applied to the smallest capacitor. they cascade charge, the one that leaks the least eats all the leakage, get hot, conduct and boom. Its dangerous and you typically do not do it and you certainly do not do it for that.

I do not have to show . There have been 1F capacitors in car stereos alonefor decades.

I also said in parallel not series. You can try and throw that in there to make a point but I guess its beyond you to conceive of a circuit of only parallel capacitors You really do not know . Not all capacitors are used to build up voltage to start an electric motor like you are used to working on.

You put them in parallel and then consider sigma-V = 0. Seriously how do you figure they make the larger capacitors? You think they just make huge plates? God you are clueless.

Go change some parts.

Here I try to steer the discussion back to your initial up of claiming no 1F caps and back to how they were possible only around in 1990 after you realized your up.

LOL...

Again, you prove you are full of it. ∑ V doesn't matter. You risk turning your capacitors into bombs if you exceed their rated voltage.

Actually, sigma-V = 0 is precisely why they work in parallel and are dangerous in series. Another serious up on your part. Your reading of wikipedia is obviously not helping you.

Now I admit I have had to bust out some textbooks to brush up on some but seriously youre just ing lost.

Since you like playing quiz show. How do you think they make the 100F capacitors? I know that you only understand the specs on the parts you are changing but come on.

When you split the circuit the voltage going into each capacitor in parallel is equal. So what does that mean for the voltage on each capacitor?

I again try and steer the discussion back to the initial topic and of course

True. Voltage is still the same. But you have to put capacitors in series to increase their breakdown voltage, which decreases capacitance.

No you do not. You use a different insulator. And again who gives a the discussion is about large capacitance capacitors. Its a red herring and you just ignore the question asked about how you thought they were made.

No its true and thus sigma-v is key.

When you put them in parallel the voltage and current in are the same as the voltage and current out. In essence, it is the same as a single capacitor with a larger surface area and that is what you would see if you actually opened up the cylinders that you change out and again capacitors have many more uses than the starters that you are used to working on.

If you had even a rudimentary understanding of the physics involved you would know this.

You quite obviously know nothing about signals.

This clearly demonstrates how your knowledge is a tiny box.

I seriously wonder why I try and explain how it actually works or stay with the argument that matters because of course you follow with this insipid bull .

Ask anyone who has studied electronics.

You are flat out wrong. All capacitors also have a rated voltage. You cannot use small voltage capacitors with high voltage.

And again who gives a . Fine but you do not need to put them in series to increase the voltage capacity. You use different materials.

I'm trying to school him, but he's too dumb to understand that he doesn't understand.

Sure you are.....

Bluster gets you nowhere. Lets get back to capacitors in parallel and why you brought up voltage. You only bring up putting capacitors in series but we are not talking about that.

We are talking about why on Earth you would think that 1F capacitors are some sort of new technology.

Basically all you do is bring up whats on the schematics of the machines you change parts on.

Here I once again try and steer the subject back to the salient issue and away from your red herring.

Hey fuzzy...

Check out this:

Capacitors

If that's not enough, the facts about capacitors are readily available. If you don't know how to google, let me know. I'll find more for you.

Again with the series bull and voltage capacity. You do not use series caps to do this and this still does not address 1F capacitors, how they were around for a long long time or how sigma-v applies. All of these go to your credibility and you again are full of fail.

That has no bearing on capacitors in parallel.

The discussion is about how capacitors are made. Not on how you use capacitors at work.

In parallel there is no increased voltage. If anything there is a decrease because there is going to be a drop because of resistance in the leads. So hey you keep on talking about how you do not want to use too high a voltage on a capacitor when it is very clear that when you increase capacitance it does not increase the voltage.

The discussion is about how you did not know about 1F capacitors and thus how they would have been possible. The nature of voltage in a circuit has been understood for 200 years.

You might as well talk about thermal inversions for how much it applies to the discussion. Nice red herring though.

Once again I try and steer the subject back.

You're changing the argument to one I'm not disagreeing with. I never said 1 farad capacitors and above didn't exist. I never claimed you were wrong with that. The points I say you are wrong about, you refuse to address.

please...

Are you really that dumb, or have too much misplaced pride to admit you're wrong?

Now you accuse me of changing the subject when its clear thats not the case after this review. Your dumbass was talking about series caps and being plain ing wrong.

Again who gives a . Fine series caps allow a higher voltage in theory but in practical application there are other ways to do it that are not dangerous.

You once again are trying the bait and switch.

I am still waiting for an explanation how sigma-V = 0 does not matter, how you thought that 1F did not exist or how you later tried to dodge it by saying they were only created in 1990.

[ElNono]

[Wild Cobra]

Fuzzy, you prove again that you don't understand. You are a joke. We were referring to power systems and storage. High capacity capacitors are only for low voltage. You fail to understand critical things about capacitors.

Bye.

[MannyIsGod]

What reality do you live in?

[RandomGuy]

I got no skin in the "capacitor" argument, so I think it is safe to say:


@ at two people aruging over the electrical properties of capacitors in the political section of a basketball message board. No offense meant to either party inolved.

I LOVE the internet for random (HA) like that.