Random Spurs news updates 10/10/10

[ElNono]

Pop still emphasizes defense a great deal.

In order to to get those easy points from pushing the ball (at the basket-layups/ dunks; or transition 3's), you need defensive stops ( long rebounds, deflections off steals, ect.) to ignite easy fast break opportunities. The personnel they have on the roster is the best defensive roster they've had in the past 3 years (including this upcoming season). So these opportunities could be there, especially with Splitter coming over this season helping the interior defense and also with Mason no longer whining for playing time.

Based on what quan ative measure? Gut feelings per minute?
I see the same roster as last season for the minute takers for the most part. The difference I see are on the players with lesser minutes: Tiago for Mahinmi, Neal for Mason, Simmons/Gee for Centerpiece and Anderson for Hairston. The bulk of the minutes are still gonna go to the big 3 and RJ. Blair might take more minutes from Bonner, seeing how he's been playing. Tiago is a big ????, and one would assume he will take some time from Dice, at least during the regular season.

I just don't see where this big defensive improvement is going to come from. I'm certainly anxious to be greatly surprised.

You can't just run taking the ball out of the basket and expect to get great efficient point blank looks. You can't, usually the defense is already set after they convert a field goal or free throw.

What you can do is try to get into your offensive sets quicker by pushing the ball out from under the basket, which won't give the defense that much time to get their defense set. But that doesn't mean, Spurs are just going to go into " Dantoni" basketball and throw up ill-advised bad shots early in the shot clock. Pop will never tolerate that.

I don't expect them to go into D'Antoni mode either, I'm not that crazy.
My comment about SSOL and winning the 'ratings championship' was pretty much tongue in cheek, and I thought it was pretty obvious.
That said, I don't think we ever 'not emphasized' fast-break and running. It's just a lot easier to run when you can get stops. Something we've not done well enough the last few seasons.

[ElNono]

did you just see the simmons training camp video? he is told to defend like no other and wreak havoc defensively also simmons is watching bruce tape and learning his foot positionsing!! i think pop realized they slacked so much on defense and is very adamant about his defense!!!

look you dont need all defensive players to play defense all you need is drive in your mind. just look at the suns for instance they were really defensive last year which was bazaar but all it took was effort and we have more capable defenders than most teams.

You know what? I think Bobby is trying his best to win himself a place in this roster and league. I think he'll do anything and everything to do it. And I wish him the best of luck and hope he can get there.
That said, sometimes it's not just mental. Bowen was not just mentally good. He was a physical phenom. The question with Bobby is wether he still has it physically. He looks in top shape, but people were going around him like he was not there in the Rockets game. It's just one game, and obviously not a good enough sample size. So we'll see what he has in the next few games.

[benefactor]

I don't have much hope for Spurs defense. I think it died with Bowen's exit.

[MaNu4Tres]

Based on what quan ative measure? Gut feelings per minute?

I see the same roster as last season for the minute takers for the most part. The difference I see are on the players with lesser minutes: Tiago for Mahinmi, Neal for Mason, Simmons/Gee for Centerpiece and Anderson for Hairston. The bulk of the minutes are still gonna go to the big 3 and RJ. Blair might take more minutes from Bonner, seeing how he's been playing. Tiago is a big ????, and one would assume he will take some time from Dice, at least during the regular season.

I just don't see where this big defensive improvement is going to come from. I'm certainly anxious to be greatly surprised.

You don't think having Splitter playing 20+ minutes in the playoffs instead of Bonner is a defensive improvement?

You don't think Anderson is an improvement defensively over Mason?

You don't think another year and off-season will help Blair, Hill and RJ's defensive awareness in Pop's system ?

[MaNu4Tres]

Before you try to twist and turn my last point like ---*OMG YOU THINK RJ CAN IMPROVE INTO A BOWEN OMG*-- No I meant with a year under his belt (like Blair) , his rotations have the chance to be crisper and it's certainly reasonable for a player in their 2nd year to be one step (mentally) ahead in a specific and complicated system like Pop's. Anyway, that is not my main point.

My main point is Splitter and Anderson are the defensive improvements in the 8-10 man rotation (Yes I believe Anderson will claim that 5th wing spot behind Tony, Hill, Manu and RJ) .

[benefactor]

Blair and Hill will be better, but will still be exploited at times. Hill still to show he won't get faceraped by quicker points. Pop also has to get away from the idea that he can guard anyone...even if they are 6 inches taller than him. Blair will be better but is still going to struggle against bigger players and quicker forwards. He has shown a few flashes of adjustment to this(swiping at balls without fouling to cause turnovers) but all in all he will still likely struggle for the other reasons I mentioned.

As for the others things are completely unknown. Anderson is a rookie and will likely have problems adjusting to the speed of the NBA game and will be subject to NBA calls. TBQH, I don't think he will see the floor enough to make a true defensive impact. I won't even say what I think about RJ because you and I are obviously at an impasse on that subject. Splitter...who knows. In theory he should make a difference but there will still be plenty of adjustment time for him, even though he is smart and has lots of overseas experience.

Many of us underestimate the impact Bowen had on the perimeter. Since he has left the team defense has gone from inconsistent to barely existent. Spurs defense has gone from being in intensive care to full blown code blue...and I don't know that it can be resuscitated.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't have much hope for Spurs defense. I think it died with Bowen's exit.

I agree. Furthermore, I think it's becoming more and more plain that Bowen and Duncan were far more responsible for Spurs defense than Popovich ever was.

[ElNono]

You don't think having Splitter playing 20+ minutes in the playoffs instead of Bonner is a defensive improvement?

I don't know. I don't even know if Tiago will play 20+ minutes in the playoffs or play at all. Will he hit the rookie wall? Will he get the Hill/Finley treatment? Will we be talking about how his second season will be better than the first?
I've watched Tiago enough overseas and I know it's going to take time to adjust to the super athletic league that's the NBA. I expect his passing to be top notch, but I'm not sure his defense will translate as readily. I certainly hope it does, but it's far from a sure thing. I would say that it's even arguable Bonner will be the minutes loser to him, seeing Pop's love for Matt.

You don't think Anderson is an improvement defensively over Mason?

I don't know, do you? He looked lost against Houston and great against the Heat scrubs last night. Will he even get the minutes to show what he can do? I have similar questions as the ones with Tiago: Rookie wall? Will he be the minute loser when playoffs come around, as it seems to be the case for most rookies?

You don't think another year and off-season will help Blair, Hill and RJ's defensive awareness in Pop's system ?

Well, the question is if you see their defensive problems as merely not knowing the system or there are other, deeper issues.

At this point, I think Hill knows what to do. I thought his biggest problem defensively last season was footwork. Being able to read and stay in front of his man. I mean, Nash schooled him bad on that. Here's hoping he worked on that aspect during the summer.

As far as Blair goes, I never had much problem with his defense. I mean, early in the season his rotations were awful, but eventually he got a grip on it. The fact that he doesn't really have the size to guard top big man in the post is not going to change if he knows the system more or not. But he works his ass off rebounding the ball, and that right there is huge and to me, makes up for other shortcomings. I expect improvement mostly on offense from Blair. His drop shot, and mid-range he said he worked on. Maybe better awareness of what he should and should not go for (he had a lot of ticky tacky fouls on offense last season). I also hope his minutes don't go down once the playoffs come around.

Lastly, RJ... a topic we've discussed extensively. I just don't think he has the tools to guard the quick athletic wings out there in the league anymore. His lateral movement is gone. To top it off, he's mostly the an hesis of Blair: Where the beast mitigates some of his shortcomings busting his ass off, RJ looks extremely casual a lot of time, especially on defense. Maybe the new RJ changed that. I'll let you know after 10 or so games into the season. But that's the lingering impression I got from him last season, and I didn't think the system have a lot to do specifically with that stuff.

(Sorry for the long winded response. But next game is Tuesday, so what the ).

[ElNono]

Before you try to twist and turn my last point like ---*OMG YOU THINK RJ CAN IMPROVE INTO A BOWEN OMG*-- No I meant with a year under his belt (like Blair) , his rotations have the chance to be crisper and it's certainly reasonable for a player in their 2nd year to be one step (mentally) ahead in a specific and complicated system like Pop's. Anyway, that is not my main point.

My main point is Splitter and Anderson are the defensive improvements in the 8-10 man rotation (Yes I believe Anderson will claim that 5th wing spot behind Tony, Hill, Manu and RJ) .

I hope I didn't twist anything in my response... feel free to point out if I did.

[benefactor]

I agree. Furthermore, I think it's becoming more and more plain that Bowen and Duncan were far more responsible for Spurs defense than Popovich ever was.

I've said this a couple of times too. Team defense is much, much easier when a team is able to neutralize the teams perimeter threat and protect the paint simultaneously.

[MaNu4Tres]

My point was this roster, that is currently construction, is a better roster (defensively) they've had since their last championship season. (Having Splitter on the roster and wings (James Anderson) with more defensive upside than Mason/Bogans are the main reasons.)

That is all.

[ElNono]

And my point is that I would agree if that sentiment would be quantifiable in any meaningful way. We're entering in the realm of projecting potential vs looking at what we have. I'm not going to stop you from being an optimist, but I'll simply go a different route and remain skeptic until we see what the goods truly are.

[Obstructed_View]

I've said this a couple of times too. Team defense is much, much easier when a team is able to neutralize the teams perimeter threat and protect the paint simultaneously.

There's a rather convincing case to be made that Rasho Nesterovic deserves a large portion of credit as well, since the Spurs' interior defense has become much less effective without a legitimate center. Even a suckass like Francisco Elson was an improvement over much of what has followed in the middle.

[Obstructed_View]

My point was this roster, that is currently construction, is a better roster (defensively) they've had since their last championship season. (Having Splitter on the roster and wings (James Anderson) with more defensive upside than Mason/Bogans are the main reasons.)

That is all.

Time will tell. I'm currently thinking exactly the opposite, because I don't know if Splitter's going to be utilized properly and the jury is still WAY out on all the new wings. We may find ourselves wishing for Bogans and Mason from a defensive standpoint. And saying that it could be better than the worst defensive teams, by far, of the Duncan era, isn't setting the bar particularly high.

I'm still hoping for a Duncan/Splitter/Blair front line.

[MaNu4Tres]

And my point is that I would agree if that sentiment would be quantifiable in any meaningful way. We're entering in the realm of projecting potential vs looking at what we have. I'm not going to stop you from being an optimist, but I'll simply go a different route and remain skeptic until we see what the goods truly are.

It is quantifiable. You don't need a fancy Hollinger statistic to figure that out. You're just being technical because your trying to buy some time until Tuesday.

The same way how we judge Jefferson's effectiveness on the defensive end (from the eyes to the brain), is the same way how we can judge how Splitter can help this team on the defensive end ( Plenty of us have watched plenty of his games and know his measures (legit 7 footer) and know the talent he obsesses (mobile, smart, good interior defender, ect) .

- Another way we can project the new roster from the defensive standpoint is how pathetic Mason and Bogans were for the majority of the season last year.

- Another way we can project the new roster from the defensive standpoint is how helpless Bonner can be defensively in the interior when he's not getting help from a needed double team (which then creates more open looks for the opposition, oppose to having a player like Splitter where a double team is not needed.) Or whenever Tim's man is being the screen setter and Tim is drawn out to the perimeter defensively, Bonner would then be used as the defensive player responsible for rotating over to try to negate any penetration (he simply can't do this to any effective degree). It's the same when he is teamed up with McDyess or Blair and they are being drawn out in pick and rolls. ( These are all realms and where Splitter will help the defense.)

That is the quantifiable measure I'm using. Anyone who has watched games can understand those measures for the most part I believe. You don't need Hollinger to develop a quantifiable measure for you to figure that out.

[SenorSpur]

Spurs don't really even have that good of athletes imo. Even though it is better than it has been, it is still behind most teams. I get trying to run a little more, but I agree with others who are concerned with Pop's change in at ude on the defensive end. He may say the right things, but the guys getting minutes are not performing on defense.

Pop is not preaching defense first any more imo. Or, he may be preaching it, but he is not holding guys accountable. I have no problem looking to run a little more where it makes sense, but I have a problem with the personnel being brought in to defend and the passes some guys get on that end now.

As others have said, the Spurs are not suddenly going to morph into the Suns. Rather they will look for opportunities for easy baskets.

That said, I find it hilarious that Pop, and the entire team, still break each huddle with a chant of "1-2-3 DEFENSE!" With the manner in which the team defense has declined, they should've retired that chant the day that Bruce left the building. Or perhaps even when D-Rob hung it up.

[ElNono]

It is quantifiable. You don't need a fancy Hollinger statistic to figure that out. You're just being technical because your trying to buy some time until Tuesday.

How is it quantifiable? Tiago Splitter has not played 1 minute of NBA action.
James Anderson has played a grand total of 30 mins of preseason ball against debatable NBA players.

The same way how we judge Jefferson's effectiveness on the defensive end, is the same way how we can judge how Splitter can help this team on the defensive end ( Plenty of us have watched plenty of his games and know his measures (legit 7 footer) and know the talent he obsesses (mobile, smart, good interior defender, ect) . (This is a realm.)

But it isn't the same way. With RJ we have a body of work of a full season with the Spurs and many other seasons with other NBA teams. The word with RJ is that he's been made himself anew, so, I'm going to wait until a few games into the season to see if this new RJ is what we've been told he is, or if he's the relatively the same RJ we had last season. In the case of Tiago, there's barely a frame of reference. Sure, he was great in Europe, he's a legit 7 footer, and he's smart and mobile. That doesn't mean he's going to come in here and everything is going to translate in his first season.
I'm sure everybody has high hopes (myself included) about him, because he seems to have the tools, but I don't realistically think it's a sure thing right now that he's going to help us immediately. On the same vein, I'm not going to knock on him if he doesn't get everything figured out in his first season. Realistically speaking, few players do.

-Another realm is how pathetic Mason and Bogans were for the majority of the season last year. ( This is a realm.)

What makes you think their replacements will be any better, other than sheer optimism? As O_V said, the wing situation is an extremely huge question mark right now. Even more so than the interior D, IMO.

- Another realm is how helpless Bonner can be defensively in the interior when he's not getting help from a needed double team ( which then creates more open looks for the opposition, oppose to having a player like Splitter where a double team is not needed.) Or whenever Tim's man is being the screen setter and Tim is drawn out to the perimeter defensively, Bonner would then be used as the defensive player responsible for rotating over to try to negate any penetration ( He simply can't do this effectively.) It's the same when he is teamed up with McDyess or Blair and they are being drawn out in pick and rolls. ( These are all realms and where Splitter will help the defense.)

Provided he knows how is he supposed to rotate, and his shot blocking is as effective against supremely athletic players. He also will need not to reach, which is pretty common in Europe but a big no, no in the NBA. Will he get the benefit of the doubt from the refs when the attacking guy leans on him? Will he learn to back off and just modify the shot? They're all valid concerns.
The answer for all of them right now is ?????????. When you say he's going to be better than Bonner (can't really have a lower bar), well, I suspect you might be right. However, I'm not sold Bonner will lose minutes to him. After all, you're implying that Blair did a better job than Bonner but the beast ended up being the minute loser in the playoffs.

That is the quantifiable measure I'm using. Anyone who has watched games can understand those measures for the most part I believe. You don't need Hollinger to develop a quantifiable measure for you to figure that out.

You're not using quantifiable measures. You're actually using the word 'realm' which per-se means a bound, region or domain where anything can happen (or can be measured). I understand that your optimism is derived from the awfully bad pieces we had in the past few seasons (IE: *anybody* will be better defensively than Mason/Bogans/Bonner), but ultimately I have more questions than just that.
We disagree about the role Bonner is going to have. You think he won't play much, and I disagree.
We know how much Bogans and Mason sucked, but we don't really have any idea how much better/different Anderson is going to be, especially as a rookie, do we?
And Tiago seems to have the tools, but other than that, do we really know anything else? I'll reserve judgement until later on in this one too. After all, I thought Blair should have received the minutes Bonner got in the playoffs last season, but that was not the case at all. See, that's an example of something that has been quantified. Rookies seem to lose minutes to vets in this team when the playoffs roll around. Will Tiago be the exception?

[ElNono]

That said, I find it hilarious that Pop, and the entire team, still break each huddle with a chant of "1-2-3 DEFENSE!" With the manner in which the team defense has declined, they should've retired that chant the day that Bruce left the building. Or perhaps even when D-Rob hung it up.

I noticed that too and

[SenorSpur]

Thats good in theory, unfortunately, there is no sf prospect on our roster who fits your description as a "defensive freak".

All the more reason why I'm firmly onboard for the Wilson Chandler trade - which would finally give the Spurs some semblance of a defensive freak.

[DPG21920]

So we want to take a big time scorer in college with below average athleticism and make him a defender?

[ElNono]

So we want to take a big time scorer in college with below average athleticism and make him a defender?

Well, we took a SG in college and tried to make him a PG. So YMMV.

[MaNu4Tres]

So we want to take a big time scorer in college and make him a defender?

Yup

[DPG21920]

That is silly. And if you are basing defensive improvements on a guy with questionable NBA level athleticism that never really had to defend, we are in some trouble.

[MaNu4Tres]

That is silly. And if you are basing defensive improvements on a guy with questionable NBA level athleticism that never really had to defend, we are in some trouble.

Anderson has more athleticism than Mason and Bogans. You're so silly.

[DPG21920]

Wow, that is an amazing feat. Anderson has more athleticism than Bogans and Mason. Amazing.

Whether he has more athleticism than those two or not is a moot point. He still has borderline NBA level athleticism and it does not seem wise to make a guy who is the big 12 player of the year and a big scorer a defensive guy. I wish other teams that drafted the Big 12 player of the year turned them into defensive guys.

Most everyone in the NBA has better athleticism than Bogans/Mason, that does not help your case.