Hungary: Toxic red sludge has reached the Danube

[clambake]

they should call it the white flag list.

[Obstructed_View]

WC does not know about chemistry either. The hydroxide in NaOH disassociates effortlessly in solution. This stuff is like big lakes and streams of draino with the added bonus of toxic trace elements.

The hydroxide is the reducing agent used in the smelting process, thats why its free.

Unless red clay involves a bunch of hydroxides in solution --it does not-- then its not the same in any significant way, shape or form.

Its like WC sees a topic, goes and sees what Limbaugh or someone like that will say on the topic, then goes to wikipedia to try and sound like he knows what he is talking about and then just preaches like a good minion.

Its a caraciature.

Something of that ph is going to kill any plant that sits in it, kill any fish that swims in it and kill any animal that drinks it. The river will dilute it hopefully but anyone between the spill and the river downstream is screwed at the very least.

Strange that you ranted about how stupid WC is but then your final conclusion is exactly what he said several posts back.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Strange that you ranted about how stupid WC is but then your final conclusion is exactly what he said several posts back.

Umm not its not. He basically passed it off as it was no big deal. He even used the buzzword: fear-mongering.

I concluded that it was very dangerous because NaOH is one of the strongest bases there is.

[MannyIsGod]

Strange that you ranted about how stupid WC is but then your final conclusion is exactly what he said several posts back.

LOL what? You must be the only one who can see that post. Mind linking to it?

[Wild Cobra]

Strange that you ranted about how stupid WC is but then your final conclusion is exactly what he said several posts back.

Stupidity like that is why I had to place him on IGNORE.

[Winehole23]

LOL what? You must be the only one who can see that post. Mind linking to it?

Just like you and FL both did, WC stressed the danger of pH.

[MannyIsGod]

Stressed? He mentioned it after others did but stressed is not what he did considering how he tried to blow it off the fist time he mentioned it.

[Winehole23]

Yeah, it seems like he minimized it.

[Wild Cobra]

Yeah, it seems like he minimized it.

No, other than the flooding effect of the nasty red stuff that I didn't mention, it was the only concern I had of it. Need I stress a level of facts, to make them more or less a fact? Did I disagree with anything true?

What are you getting at?

[Winehole23]

You suggested the OP was lacking factually and was pumping fear without pointing out exactly how, but ironically, you also ended up parroting one of its main points.

[Wild Cobra]

You suggested the OP was lacking factually and was pumping fear without pointing out exactly how, but ironically, you also ended up parroting one of its main points.

Maybe I went overboard there, but I did read the way it pointed out heavy metals as something people would fear. Low and behold... look what someone then quoted:

Moreover it may contain about 7 radionuclides such as U, Ra, Th, K, Cs, etc and about 5 anions, fluoride, phosphate, chloride, nitrate and sulphate.

[Winehole23]

Heavy metals are no joke, but without detailed info about concentrations I can see speculating that might be fear-mongering.

Given the volume of the spill and the imminent possibility of another one, I wouldn't be too quick to make that speculation myself.

[Wild Cobra]

Heavy metals are no joke, but without detailed info about concentrations I can see speculating that might be fear-mongering.

Given the volume of the spill and the imminent possibility of another one, I wouldn't be too quick to make that speculation myself.

Me either, but people do. Thing is, they never added things like heavy metals to get the alumina. It was already there, in what is otherwise in essence, red clay in a rock form, as I pointed out in my first post. Only the caustic Sodium hydroxide appears to be added, but I did state in my second post:

Still, it depends on their refining process.

I know what these chemicals can do. I have worked with 13.5 PH KOH.

Pointing out the radioactive elements is disconcerting, and disingenuous to me. Nearly all natural minerals are radioactive. Consider this:

Hungary red mud disaster biggest in the world, environmental impacts unforeseeable:

Talking about the heavy metal and lead content, and the radioactivity of red mud is but scare-mongering.

As a result of developments in the last twenty years, it has been proved that red mud can be partly neutralized with various agents, including sea water or gypsum (can also be obtained as a waste).

For instance, red mud has been disposed of in the sea in France, Greece and Japan for several years. Sea water neutralizes the causticity of red mud. No bioac ulation of chemicals was found on fish and sandworm using a diet containing 10% bauxite residue.

The resulting material has several favourable features, among others:
- high acid neutralising capacity
- high cyanide and toxic heavy metal trapping capacity
- not hazardous any more.

Someone has a great deal of bulldozing and shipping to pay for.

For those of you worried about radioactivity:

Granite Countertops Contain Radioactive Minerals

Uranium, thorium, and potassium are just some of the radioactive minerals that might be in a granite countertop. As countertops are used, they emit radon and radiation into the near vicinity. Radon is the #2 leading cause of lung cancer.

[George Gervin's Afro]

maybe i went overboard there,

lol

[LnGrrrR]

Heavy metals are no joke, but without detailed info about concentrations I can see speculating that might be fear-mongering.

Given the volume of the spill and the imminent possibility of another one, I wouldn't be too quick to make that speculation myself.

Considering how much speculation goes into the war on terrorism and the dire predictions involved, not sure if WC wants to actually call this fear mongering...