Haters fan club is not referring to literally hating RJ. The expected suckiness is not just pessimism considering we have seen what RJ can do in the Spurs system.
Could he improve and does everyone want that (or most everyone)? Yes. Is there any real strong indication of that at this point? Not really.
There have always been haters, no matter what. Happened with Beno/Hairston, happens with Tony/Manu/Bonner/RJ, happens in other teams. It's just part of sports. There was a pretty funny article about the different kind of basketball fans not long ago that described it to a T.
Yeah, we've gone over this song and dance a couple times now. Refer to the thread le/starter for inquiry into why he chose "hate" if he did not mean hate, and others who join such a "club", if they do not hate him.
Why not the "Hope RJ improves" roll call? Or, God forbid, the "FO made a huge mistake" rollcall? Those lacking in "vindication"? It's so much easier just saying "oh, we hate everything about RJ, not really, but we do, and we'll gladly point to this thread when he fails." Gladly and when being the keywords.
You are digging too deep. Hater is a common term. Slang if you will. When I call you a "G", it does not mean I literally think you are the letter "G". It is the implication of the word that matters.
He explained what he meant by it. It is not that big of deal. It is referring more to a group of people that hate the basketball ramifications of RJ on the Spurs.
Hey, everyone's en led to an opinion. Starting threads about it, and seemingly reveling in it, invites criticism.
Disagree. Hate is a very black and white word. I do agree he explained it away (in an edit, it seems) very quickly.
I'd rather Pop be pushing him to play stellar defense rather than fire up low % shots all game long.
Here you go. Extracted from RealGM:
The Old Timer: A personal favorite of mine, usually a middle/elderly aged man who seems like he'll watch a modern NBA playoff game with you simply for the sake of complaining about how the game is now "soft" or watered down compared to what it used to be back during his time. Will never stop to appreciate a fancy dunk by LeBron or an impossible shot by Kobe. Will simply wait for something questionable to happen so he can start talking about the 1982 NBA Finals again and how it was so much better than now.
The Band Wagoner: Does this really need an explanation? Someone who rarely watches Basketball but hops on a bandwagon, typically when a big star comes to his city, or someone who jumps from team to team.
Mr. Fundamentals: The guy who's truly a college basketball fan at heart/played or coached basketball and therefore thinks he knows certain things about the game that no one else does, and that he's some kind of basketball genius. Will often point out how there's too much 1on1 play going on in an NBA game or that a play a team did was to "street" and not "fundamental" enough. Generally tries to act like he knows more about the game than you do.
The Player Hater: Those who hate a player for no particular reason other than to jump on the bandwagon. Most commonly seen with Kobe Bryant, these people may not've ever watched a full basketball game in their life but will sit down with you in the living room constantly expressing their detest for "The Black Mamba," knowing that deep down inside the only reason they're doing it is because so many other people do it, with those other people being just as big of a follower as he is.
The Player Lover: Those who blindly love a certain player, with the reasons for that being variable. They disguise themselves as a fan of the player's team but in reality they only view their games to see their favorite player perform. They'll often gloat and be loud mouths about how awesome he is and how much better he is than the rest of the League, and will defend said player to the death.
Warriors Fan: Someone who's only interested in the gimmicky run and gun style of basketball that the Suns and Warriors play and will quickly change the channel if he views a game that involves 2 teams actually playing half-court basketball with well coordinated defenses. These people most likely thought Game 7 of the Finals "sucked" because a shot wasn't being made every other possession, and physical defense was being played.
The Desperate Girl: Another personal favorite, the girl who jumps into a crowd of guys at a Sports Bar acting like she actually follows the NBA for the sake of impressing someone. Throughout the course of the game will quickly be exposed for her sheer lack of knowledge on the sport (example: we once had a girl at our bar proclaim that it'd be a sad day when LeBron leaves the Lakers) but will try to laugh it off or use sex appeal to take your mind off how ignorant and desperate she truly is.
Mr. Perfect: Those who want every NBA player to act like a cardboard cut-out with no personality similar to Tim Duncan.
Closet Racist: Typically middle/elderly aged white dudes who watch a game and scoff at everything black players do and say but will quickly applaud a white player's actions. For example, during a game in the Celtics-Magic series we had my friend's father tell us that KG is an "ignorant thug who does nothing but scream and beat his chest"...but then applauded JJ Re for doing the same thing like 5 minutes later because he was "showing heart."
Hollinger Stats Geek: Typically people who spend a little too much time analyzing John Hollinger's biased statistics. They believe that PER is the only way to judge how great a basketball player is, and that if Player A's PER is lower than Player B's PER he's automatically inferior to Player B.
"I don't watch Games" Stats Geek: Those who try to tell you everything that happened in a game via the boxscore rather than watching it. Will often make themselves look very, very, stupid in the process.
Mr. Next Anointed One: Those who automatically declare every player their favorite team drafts as the next great. Will overrate the crap out of him throughout the off-season and will go ga-ga over every little basket he makes in Summer League. Like the Player Fan, will typically be loud mouths about how great this player is and will defend him to death.
Mr. Hypothetical: Those who use completely hypothetical and typically improbable events to prove some kind of point. For example, "Kobe's not a true winner. Put Vince Carter in his place during the early 2000's and he would've had 3 rings too."
The Closet Hockey Fan: The guy who acts like he's a fan of the NBA but throughout the course of the game will do NOTHING but bash the sport. "Ugh, too much fouling going on by the refs." "Ugh, what's so special about a 7 foot fatass like Shaq dunking?" "Ugh, this game sucks." "I don't understand how you could have fun watching 2 teams trade baskets all day." From personal experience, in reality these guys are NHL fans who're unhappy with the fact that ESPN completely dumped their sport and now pretty much only promote the NBA and NFL (with some baseball on the side.)
The Conspiracy Theorist: Those who believe that the NBA is run by some kind of secret corporation and that Playoff games are rigged to put big market teams and/or teams that generate big ratings in the Finals. Little do they realize that the San Antonio Spurs, a team that has won 4 championships this generation, was neither big market nor a strong ratings draw. Little do they realize that if the NBA truly was rigged, then the Spurs-Nets Final would've never happened, because it generated the worst ratings ever, was between 2 horrible markets and was all around unbearable to watch.
Mr. Overeact: When you're on a winning streak it's le time here we come! When you're on a losing streak it's trade X player and fire the coach! This poster can also be found in game threads howling in despair or squealing with glee with every play. Often they take an isolated play and turn it into a full blown scouting report that details every nuance of a players ability, skill set and even psychological profile.
The YouTube Scout: This poster feels that from his extensive youtube searches and hours of watching these grainy 3 minute videos that he is the master talent evaluator. Also being armed with bookmarks to every draft site known to man he could best any of the GMs who have armies of scouts and oodles of video to review as well as countless dollars to use in this endeavor.
~~~~~~~~~
Last edited by ElNono; 10-13-2010 at 05:20 PM. Reason: Added a couple more...
Some people say they hate him. I mean, the thread is called "RJ haters", right? He did play poorly at times last year. He also played well enough, at times, that some are willing to give him another shot. I fully expected the "haters" to rag on RJ from the opening tip of the preseason. Even the ones who said they thought he could/would improve. I am not surprised at all.
I'm not really sure how someone can separate an unreasonable, vitriolic hatred of a singular player from a rational, sane support of their team. It is incongruous at best.
I got mad last year when RJ made a bonehead play or failed to rotate properly or looked like a lost puppy. I just wanted to shake him and yell, "Snap out of it, man!" During the course of a game I can get mad at any Spur who is ing up. From Duncan on down. I understand the frustration.
What I don't understand is the desperate, permanent negativity that permeates this board like a deep, ominous blackness that will swallow us all.
I just refuse to be that negative. I can be realistic and positive simultaneously. It's not hard.
One player's individual performance is not going to make or break this team. They are all going to have come together as a unit to make any noise this season.
Why do you think he's pushing him to be strong on offense? Apparently you find that to be a miscalculation - what has he missed?
Well said. There's a fine line that, IMO, this thread crossed.
IMO, it's ridiculous right now in the preseason. I mean, harping on RJ's shortcomings is something we've done all offseason, but I think it's premature to start threads like this without the benefit of a ten or so games (at least in the RJ case).
I started this thread because I noticed that other Spurs fans, people who had ed about the RJ in the off-season, were still doing so in other threads. I figured we should have a place to vent. On the flipside, if we're wrong we can breathe a sigh of relief when it happens, and everyone else can point and laugh at us.
Sure. I still hope he improves. It's just very rare that a post-30yo dog learns any new tricks. MJ and Kobe did it. The jury is out on RJ.
Fair call. I did edit it straight away because it didn't say what I meant.
We gave a 40mil contract to a guy everyone agrees deserved no more than the MLE. Thus, the contract is close to untradeable.
Because RJ has such a high contract, he has to play. Thus, he has a mortgage over the SF slot. He's there to stay, and given his age he's not likely to improve. But he will prevent our team from going young at the 3 through FA or next year's draft, which is what we should've done.
Note: I'm not criticising the original trade for RJ - that made sense. It's the 4-yr extension that's incomprehensible.
(1) Well, duh. I spelled that out in the OP. You seem to presume that this isn't common practice at ST and the internet in general!
(2) I don't intend to keep this thread on the front page all season. I created it so that it can be pulled out when the mainstream ing starts in earnest.
(3) As I explained rather humorously, this is fan hate, not real I-hope-you-die-in-a-plane-crash hate. This thread, while seriously a dig at RJ, is also meant to be a bit of fun. Gallows humour, if you will.
So, I should toe the line and rah-rah-rah because that's more productive. Bull . This is also productive - it's a place to laugh about the Spurs' FO's worst decision since Scola. They don't make many mistakes, but this is a big one that is hamstringing the franchise, so I'm gonna talk about it.
I criticise an illogical decision by the FO so I'm "spoiled". Make some sense or GTFOH.
Well said. I'd take that.
Um, no. I do hope RJ improves like we need him too. Rationally, I don't see it happening. See the difference? One involves "hope", and irrational feeling, the other logic.
Learn the language or don't bother replying.
Best comment in the thread so far by a Faker fan. Shameful.
You guys have no sense of humour. It isn't meant to be deadly serious - it's gallows humour about the fact that we're stuck with this untradeable 30yo who is a terrible fit for our team, which most of us could see before he was re-signed. Resigning him doesn't change the fact he's not a fit.
This thread is about poking fun at RJ, and it'll no doubt disappear then come back a few times during the season. I didn't throw it out there because of one pre-season game, but because I noticed other posters still ing about RJ in random threads all over the place. I thought this might unite them in one place!
Incorrect.Sure. I still hope he improves. It's just very rare that a post-30yo dog learns any new tricks. MJ and Kobe did it. The jury is out on RJ.
The jury already returned their verdict and found RJ guilty of being a massively overpaid, underperforming contract albatross who could cost the Spurs retaining current players and the opportunity costs of future players acquired through trade while being a poor playoff performer.
RJ is free to appeal the decision at the end of the season.
So, you admit to your duality on this issue. I don't think I misconstrued anything. Maybe it's your Aussie accent?
Reading comprehension really is a problem for you, eh?
People, you can't just read what someone writes and then pretend they wrote something else. I clearly explained the way I was using the term 'hate'. And again here:
...which pointed out that I'm not serious about the 'hate'. It's fan hate. Fans 'love' and fans 'hate', it's what we do. It's just annoying when the hate is directed towards a player you are meant to love because he's on your side....I 'hate' him (once again: in the internet fan sense, not the want-to-ritually-disembowel-him-and-frolic-in-his-entrails sense).
At the end of the day, at least I'm not being boring and predictable and hating on Bonner!
We already have one of those that gets bumped by it's OP on a pretty regular basis.This thread is about poking fun at RJ, and it'll no doubt disappear then come back a few times during the season. I didn't throw it out there because of one pre-season game, but because I noticed other posters still ing about RJ in random threads all over the place. I thought this might unite them in one place!
It is not my comprehension that is this thread's problem; it is your blatant misuse of the term, and your obvious reveling in the coming "unfortunate" vindication.Reading comprehension really is a problem for you, eh?
Have fun enjoying RJ fail, bro. I'll leave you and others who wish to be called "spurs starter aka RJ haters" alone.
Oh well, we've got twq now, haven't we? I took the off-season off, so not knowing that is on me.
I won't be 'enjoying' his failure, I'll be laughing bitterly at it, which is better than wanting to tear my ing hair out about it. Gallows humour is a coping mechanism.
Ultimately, these threads are merely a testament of the continuing trend... I'm sure they'll die down and be replaced with reverse-vindication threads should RJ turn his game around...
...and I sincerely hope that's the case. You can all point and laugh at what a I am, and I'll have to say: "well, yeah, fair enough".
I started this because I saw people still spraying at RJ all over the forum. None of them have showed up in here though!
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