Bonner gets too many minutes for the Spurs to be successful

[androck]

I don't see what the big fuss is about. He is an average NBA player making average NBA money (for his height and ability to spread the floor) and his MPG went from 24 to 18 last season and will continue to go down this season as Blair picks up more minutes and Tiago joined the team. He knows the system and will hopefully eat up minutes during the regular season to keep Tim and McDyess on the bench as much as possible until the playoffs. Not everyone on the roster is going to be an All-Star. It's not like we signed Rudy Gay to a max contract and Bonner still makes less than Darko.

[ChuckD]

He plays because his effective FG% is north of 60%. I'll explain that, for the basketball re ed. If a big hulking space eating Center shoots 60% and takes 100 shots, he scores 120 points by making 60 of the 100 shots. If Bonner shoots his customary 40% from downtown on 100 shots, guess what? He scores 120 points AND spaces the floor for T,T, and M, unlike your hulking paint brute who clogs the lane.

His game has warts, don't get me wrong, but to call him useless is as stupid as Ghost Writer calling Bowen the worst starting SF in the league, year after year. If you're smart enough to figure out that 3 point marksmanship is what keeps Bonner on the floor, then you have your answer as to why Gist won't make the team.

[ElNono]

He plays because his effective FG% is north of 60%. I'll explain that, for the basketball re ed. If a big hulking space eating Center shoots 60% and takes 100 shots, he scores 120 points by making 60 of the 100 shots. If Bonner shoots his customary 40% from downtown on 100 shots, guess what? He scores 120 points AND spaces the floor for T,T, and M, unlike your hulking paint brute who clogs the lane.

His eFG% in the playoffs is currently 45.5%...

Here's the closest I could match comparatively, in the playoffs (at least 20 games, 300 mins):
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...y.cgi?id=6XiGQ

And while you're peeking at that advanced stats table, check out Offensive/Defensive Winning Shares and PER...

So, the guy can perform during the regular season. No doubt about it.
The problem is that only his production, not his minutes, go down during the playoffs.

Sorry Chuck, I'll take the hulking paint brute for the playoffs.

[thOOdee]

He plays because his effective FG% is north of 60%. I'll explain that, for the basketball re ed. If a big hulking space eating Center shoots 60% and takes 100 shots, he scores 120 points by making 60 of the 100 shots. If Bonner shoots his customary 40% from downtown on 100 shots, guess what? He scores 120 points AND spaces the floor for T,T, and M, unlike your hulking paint brute who clogs the lane.

His game has warts, don't get me wrong, but to call him useless is as stupid as Ghost Writer calling Bowen the worst starting SF in the league, year after year. If you're smart enough to figure out that 3 point marksmanship is what keeps Bonner on the floor, then you have your answer as to why Gist won't make the team.

comparing bowen to bonner is ridiculous. I get where you are coming from, but a low output for offense means when the man your guarding (usually an all-star efficient scorer) goes 4/12 ala bowen. When bonner locks down on the garnets and CHRIS BOSHS of the nba, I wouldn't care even if he did make only 1 of the many bricks come playoff time.

[thOOdee]

before the spurs game the other day, one of the commenters mentioned that everything that is counted should not always be what counts and what counts is not always counted. thought to think about when looking at bonners 3 pt%.

[ChuckD]

His eFG% in the playoffs is currently 45.5%...

Here's the closest I could match comparatively, in the playoffs (at least 20 games, 300 mins):
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...y.cgi?id=6XiGQ

And while you're peeking at that advanced stats table, check out Offensive/Defensive Winning Shares and PER...

So, the guy can perform during the regular season. No doubt about it.
The problem is that only his production, not his minutes, go down during the playoffs.

Sorry Chuck, I'll take the hulking paint brute for the playoffs.

In his first two seasons, he got to play a grand total of 11 playoff games, but played less than 5 minutes per contest. Not much to go on there.

Against Dallas in 09, he sucked, but then again, there was no Manu, and Tim was playing on one leg. Everyone was being asked to do more, and that's not his role.

Last summer in 10 playoff games, he shot 43% overall and 37% from downtown in 17 minutes, playing off the stars. I'll take that over the hulking brute clogging the paint.

He is a ROLE PLAYER, and I don't think some of you know what that ing means.

[AussieFanKurt]

Spurs will win number 5 from bonners hands

[Leonard Curse]

agree i was so happy to hear the nba tv crew bring that out and put coach pop on the spotlight. he needs someone to embarass him or stand up to him and let him know!! ?

did you guys know the reason why he started talking about taking the regular season (playoff standings) so seriously is because manu called him out? my brother told me about an article he found and it said manu told pop (after they lost) in a round about way that he wanted to play good in the post, but felt that they needed to start the season well also and thought they should take it more seriously.

i thought that was really awesome and when it comes to bonner i think it helps that nba analysts (especially retired players/coaches) call pop out on such mindless decisions

[z0sa]

In his first two seasons, he got to play a grand total of 11 playoff games, but played less than 5 minutes per contest. Not much to go on there.

Against Dallas in 09, he sucked, but then again, there was no Manu, and Tim was playing on one leg. Everyone was being asked to do more, and that's not his role.

Last summer in 10 playoff games, he shot 43% overall and 37% from downtown in 17 minutes, playing off the stars. I'll take that over the hulking brute clogging the paint.

He is a ROLE PLAYER, and I don't think some of you know what that ing means.

Although I can't be sure of whether I'd choose Bonner or a hulking brute at this point (based on the brute, of course), you've made a very solid point, one we few Bonner defenders have gone blue in the face over: Bonner doesn't put himself out there, Pop does. He plays to the best of his abilities, and it's actually not too bad. His clumsy, nerdy nature and T-Rex run seem to have blinded people to the fact he does produce about what is expected.

I do agree he has had his troubles in the playoffs, but he's a late bloomer in that regard - these last two playoffs have seen him go from enduring none of the pressure to a substantial portion. It takes less talented players time and experience before they can adjust.

I saw flashes of a very good Bonner off the bench last season, and I think that's where his best role ultimately lies. I'm quite interested in seeing how Splitter, Blair, and Bonner take on their forthcoming opportunities.

[Leonard Curse]

In his first two seasons, he got to play a grand total of 11 playoff games, but played less than 5 minutes per contest. Not much to go on there.

Against Dallas in 09, he sucked, but then again, there was no Manu, and Tim was playing on one leg. Everyone was being asked to do more, and that's not his role.

Last summer in 10 playoff games, he shot 43% overall and 37% from downtown in 17 minutes, playing off the stars. I'll take that over the hulking brute clogging the paint.

He is a ROLE PLAYER, and I don't think some of you know what that ing means.

didnt he start for almost a whole season? i think it was 2 yrs ago! your preaching to the choir my friend i think hes great in limited minutes in uncrucial minutes but he is played in the strangest times like when we need a defensive stop or when the guy hes replacing is on a major streak during the playoffs!!

theres a reason why 99% of spurs fans think hes played too much, i agree with a previous poster above who said:theres players who will score a good amount of pts when played for 8 minutes and when you leave them in for 20 they will average about the same.

so it realy makes no sense to keep them in there for so long especially when we have tiago splitter i for one will be furious if he is played as much as past seasons

[ElNono]

In his first two seasons, he got to play a grand total of 11 playoff games, but played less than 5 minutes per contest. Not much to go on there.

Against Dallas in 09, he sucked, but then again, there was no Manu, and Tim was playing on one leg. Everyone was being asked to do more, and that's not his role.

Doing more is not his role? He had no problem doing more in the regular season that year.

Last summer in 10 playoff games, he shot 43% overall and 37% from downtown in 17 minutes, playing off the stars. I'll take that over the hulking brute clogging the paint.

Except that he was 3-11 (27%) from downtown in the Dallas series, and started off 0-4 against the Suns in the first two games. His percentages shot up only because he was 3-4 (75%) and 2-3 (66%, in 30 mins!) in the last two games.

To put it in context, he shot substantially above his average in 2 out of 8 playoff games, and well below in the other 8.

He is a ROLE PLAYER, and I don't think some of you know what that ing means.

He's a shooting specialist that can't shoot when it matters. Ultimately, as others have said, the fact that he's out there for 20+ minutes is not necessarily his fault, but it undeniably hurts the team.

As a 5th big playing 10 min spots, I don't really have a problem with him. But that hasn't really been his role, and I have no indications thats going to be this season either.

[z0sa]

Ultimately, as others have said, the fact that he's out there for 20+ minutes is not necessarily his fault, but it undeniably hurts the team.

[benefactor]

To make those last two playoff games of the Phoenix series in SA even more useless for him, he had a whopping 4 rebounds in 49 minutes of play...including ZERO defensive rebounds in game 3.

This pretty personifies his uselessness.

[ElNono]

Sorry z0sa, but it's true. If truly there is one more shot or two at a championship while TD is around, guys like him that can't produce when it matters are part of the problem, not the solution.

If, for example, taking 3 shots in 30 minutes of a elimination playoff game is what's expected of him, he can go do that for the Grizzlies. And before you go there, I know it's not his fault he played that long, but since Pop isn't going anywhere, the only solution is to jettison the player. This is really not that different from the latter Finley, with the exception that Fin didn't regularly play the 4/5 spot (except for the failure that was small ball), and wasn't the last line of defense, like Bonner is.

[z0sa]

It's a matter of opinion. Just because most think it's "undeniably true" doesn't mean it verifiably is. He can still redeem himself; this is a big year for him, and the Spurs.

And I wouldn't compare his situation to the epic Pop lovefest with Finley. Pop has a calculated gameplan and for a while now, Bonner has played a considerable part of it. I have agreed he has ultimately underachieved in the playoffs, and for a role player of his type and caliber, that's not good. But I really only draw from last season when I say that; 09 was a nightmare, and the game we won, he did well. It is what it is. I expect him to be a phenomenal bench player this season, not more.

[Chomag]

Some passionate Bonner supporters we have here. I'm sorry but Bonner has failed so many times when it matters most that it can not be considered a fluke. What will be the excuses for him this year I wonder?

Spurs had there chance to finally move away from the Bonner to be Horry experiment this off-season but for some reason they were to scared to make that move..

[superbigtime]

I remember Pop using the phrase Horry replacement for Bonner. Just as he is trying to find a Bowen replacement. You can't replace key players. You have to develop the new ones. It's called coaching. ing Pop.

Pop will look like a genius though if he limits Bonner to max 15 minutes and Bonner actually plays well. I'm not holding my breath though. I think Bonner plays hard, he's just not that good. I understand he's just a role player, but there's no arguing that for his liabilities he is way overplayed. Bonner did sustain a significant injury last yr though, and I think that is overlooked by alot of his critics.

Bottom line is he shouldn't be overplayed if other bigs (blair, tiago) or shooters (simmons) are healthy.

Wouldn't mind at all if Steve Smith was an assistant. Heck, he might even be better than Jacque Vaughn! No that's not possible.

[Thomas82]

Just like RJ, I believe Matt tries. That's not really the problem.
They're just not very good for what this team needs at this point in time from their positions.

That's the best way to put it.

[ElNono]

It's a matter of opinion. Just because most think it's "undeniably true" doesn't mean it verifiably is. He can still redeem himself; this is a big year for him, and the Spurs.

And I wouldn't compare his situation to the epic Pop lovefest with Finley. Pop has a calculated gameplan and for a while now, Bonner has played a considerable part of it. I have agreed he has ultimately underachieved in the playoffs, and for a role player of his type and caliber, that's not good. But I really only draw from last season when I say that; 09 was a nightmare, and the game we won, he did well. It is what it is. I expect him to be a phenomenal bench player this season, not more.

Well, I'm fully aware he's staying and most likely playing.
The clock is ticking as far as the Duncan era goes. There's some real urgency for getting things done, and everyone will need to step up their games if we're to hoist another LOB before it's over.
Let's just hope he plays the limited role that his limited skills provide.

[DrSteffo]

this thread just makes me miss Horry and another thread just makes me miss Bowen. I just hope the the new guys can get my hopes up again. Splitter FTW or whatever.

[yavozerb]

Some passionate Bonner supporters we have here. I'm sorry but Bonner has failed so many times when it matters most that it can not be considered a fluke. What will be the excuses for him this year I wonder?

Spurs had there chance to finally move away from the Bonner to be Horry experiment this off-season but for some reason they were to scared to make that move..

I think we all agree on Bonner being below average at rebounding, but here are some stats fro 3pt shooting on last season playoff run. ya, it really looks like Bonner choked. He was only 3% below his season total and only played 17mpg. I posted this stat only cause 3 pt shooting is what he gets paid for and to be honest he didnt do all that bad.

3pt shooting
Manu= 33%
Hill=37%
rj= 20%
mason=14%
Bonner= 37%
http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/...-antonio-spurs

[z0sa]

I think we all agree on Bonner being below average at rebounding, but here are some stats fro 3pt shooting on last season playoff run. ya, it really looks like Bonner choked. He was only 3% below his season total and only played 17mpg. I posted this stat only cause 3 pt shooting is what he gets paid for and to be honest he didnt do all that bad.

3pt shooting
Manu= 33%
Hill=37%
rj= 20%
mason=14%
Bonner= 37%
http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/...-antonio-spurs

Mason 14%, RJ 20%

[jjktkk]

As a 5th big playing 10 min spots, I don't really have a problem with him. But that hasn't really been his role, and I have no indications thats going to be this season either.

Better bigmen depth, with the improvement of Blair and the arrival of Splitter, should cut into Bonner's minutes. Thats 2 indications.

[underdawg]

I think we all agree on Bonner being below average at rebounding, but here are some stats fro 3pt shooting on last season playoff run. ya, it really looks like Bonner choked. He was only 3% below his season total and only played 17mpg. I posted this stat only cause 3 pt shooting is what he gets paid for and to be honest he didnt do all that bad.

3pt shooting
Manu= 33%
Hill=37%
rj= 20%
mason=14%
Bonner= 37%
http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/...-antonio-spurs

in order for this team to be successful with boner playing significant minutes, his 3pt % has to much higher to cover for the other areas he lacks talent and effectiveness.

I'm glad he hustles - I would too if I was making $4 million per year with that skill set- heck, I'd be diving on the floor every play. How many other contending NBA teams have a big man that is only good at shooting 3's and gets as many minutes as boner?

[dunkman]

in order for this team to be successful with boner playing significant minutes, his 3pt % has to much higher to cover for the other areas he lacks talent and effectiveness.

I'm glad he hustles - I would too if I was making $4 million per year with that skill set- heck, I'd be diving on the floor every play. How many other contending NBA teams have a big man that is only good at shooting 3's and gets as many minutes as boner?

Fisher with the Lakers isn't a big but his role is to shot 3's.

Pop wants Bonner as a big to shot 3's with another 3 good 3-point shooters (Hill, Manu and RJ) for various 4-x offensive plays. Blair, Splitter and Dice can't do that.

So far, Bonner doesn't hit big shots as Fisher (or Horry) in the playoffs. IMO, he improved a lot the last season.

People expect from a role bench player to bring 10-12 points every game, but such players go for $7-8M per year. For $3-4M you get a player that can put 10-12 every second or third game.