despite Bryants inefficency, I still think he is one of the best players to grace the NBA with his presence, rape and being a 2nd man throughout his career notwithstanding.
He is a great player and will be remembered as probably the greatest side-kick of all time, eclipsing some of the greatest 2nd go-to guys of all time such as Robert Horry, John Stockton, Scottie Pippen, Amare Stoudamire, Manu Ginobilli, Shaq in his Post-Laker career, Penny Hardaway and several others.... He towers above them all as the greatest 2nd option in a really long time.
He trully is the imbodiment of the "Robin" role when it comes to basketball.
Props to Kobe.
Amen. Been saying this for years ...Lebron is the most dominant player in the game right now ...I dont need PER to see that. I have eyes.
I also dont need it to notice he is ringless either ...
Rings are a team accomplishment, Killa. You, of all people who put supposedly put the front of the jersey before the back, should understand that.
Advanced stats? lol.
Yeah, lets ignore the reality of how the games play out throughout the playoffs and just partake in a circle around a shrine of John Hollinger.
My precious Kobe isn't as dominant as I think he is, so let's ignore facts and instead default to opinion, because my opinion "objectively" states that my Kobe is the bestest best ever!
Laker fans hate advanced stats because they suck at math. Even if they have tutors their ceiling is a "C".
Are teams and players of the past celebrated for winning or for superior advanced statistics?
Are tutors supposed to help you get better than a "C"?
Depends on the player. To this day, there's much hand wringing over whether or not Bill Russell deserves his place among the top 5/10 players. On the other hand, Oscar and Wilt, both statistically dominant, are permanent fixtures on any top 10 list, despite their lack of multiple les.
Individual players should be judged by performance (both in the regular and post-season) not by les won. les are a team accomplishment. I don't understand why you Kobe fans find this such a hard concept to grasp (actually I do, so never mind). You morons take it as an insult when we say that Kobe has the most talented supporting cast in the league, which is something you should celebrate instead of knee-jerking into Kobe defense mode.
Yes, I think Kobe is vastly overrated. Always thought that. But who gives a when your team is collecting O'Briens?
Anyone who questions Bill Russell's place in history is a moron who simply does not know the game of basketball because they have their head shoved too far down a stat sheet to make sense of something that if they actually had the intellect to dissect, they wouldn't need a stat sheet in the first place.
I have never taken insult to saying Kobe has the most talented supporting cast in the NBA. I think he has a really good one, maybe the best, maybe not. But it's good enough to win and that's all that matters because that's all that will be remembered. Morons who argue over things like this on the internet for cyber supremacy of message boards will ultimately be forgotten.
And morons who make up their own reality of other people? They are the most helpless of all as they live in a constant state of delusion, lies and deceit in order to fabricate a cyber iden y to anonymous men on a message board.
Anyone think John Wooden or Dean Smith has his television turned off during the NCAA tourney or NBA Finals in favor of getting the latest "advanced stats sheets" sent to their email?
What did people do before advanced stats? No one must have known who was the best back then cause the PERs didn't exist to tell us all.
Laker fans hate all stats, except for 2: Points, PPG..
Laker fans NEVER used "rings" as an argument in 2005, 2006 and 2007..when Spurs fans used Duncan's rings as an argument until 2008, Laker fans dismissed it, due to the differential in the quality of teammates(which is a fair argument)..now it's their favorite stat..
Whether you dislike advanced stats or not, it isn't a coincidence that Kobe is usually the exception..apparently, there's just something about him that separates him from every other mega-star in NBA history..
PER is a decent box score stat, overrated by a lot of people, but it translates fairly well..Duncan has finished in the top 3 5 times..O'Neal has finished in the top 3 9 times, including 5 consecutive #1 finishes..Jordan finished in the top 3 10 times, including 7 consecutive #1 finishes..Olajuwon finished in the top 3 4 times..Kareem finished in the top 3 12 times, including 9 #1 finishes..Bird finished in the top 3 6 times, including 2 #1 finishes..
Magic Johnson only placed twice, but everybody that knows the stat knows that it severely undervalues PGs..
Kobe has only finished in the top 3 twice, never higher than #3..
Win Shares?..Kobe is the only guy on this list that has never placed in the top 3..in fact, every other player on this last, except Olajuwon(placed in the top 3 twice, his real value is in defensive win shares, where he has historic numbers) played in the top 3 at least 5 times..
Those are just 2 examples, you can keep going..
So even if you dislike advanced stats, which many do, why is it that Kobe is essentially the ONLY player of this caliber that has none of these stats working in his favor?..curious..
Laker fan argument in 2010:
#1- rings
#2- opinions from NBA people with no arguments or logic presented
#3- unquantifiable arguments, such as "killer instinct", "will to win"
#4- revisionist history
I personally don't. He was greater than the sum of his parts. To understand his impact, all you have to do is look at his years at San Francisco when he won back-to-back NCAA les. Something that the college hasn't done before or since. I think he was a better basketball player than Wilt, even though Wilt was far more statistically dominant. Corollary to Russell's success at San Francisco was Wilt's failure to win at a top flight program in Kansas. The fact that Russell won, twice, at a much smaller, less renown school while Wilt couldn't achieve similar at Kansas says a lot.
Good for you.I have never taken insult to saying Kobe has the most talented supporting cast in the NBA. I think he has a really good one, maybe the best, maybe not. But it's good enough to win and that's all that matters because that's all that will be remembered. Morons who argue over things like this on the internet for cyber supremacy of message boards will ultimately be forgotten.
I can only make my judgment of who a person is on the Internet by their posting history. Yours tells me that you're quite the Laker homer who has an obsession and a hatred for the Spurs.And morons who make up their own reality of other people? They are the most helpless of all as they live in a constant state of delusion, lies and deceit in order to fabricate a cyber iden y to anonymous men on a message board.
If you're not a ring smacking Laker fan with a superiority complex who constantly has to remind us how incredibly great the team they root for is and are here to talk basketball, I have no problem with you, even if that means trolling dumb Spurs fans.
But if you're here to be Lakaluva 2.0, then I will flood your bull threads with nonsense.
College basketball is a different game which is why it doesn't matter that Shaq and Duncan never won and a guy like Joakim Noah won 2 (back to back btw) [Lew Alcindor, Bill Walton too]
The reality is that Russell's true impact that can be traced back to his days at San Francisco, is that he defined the sport of basketball to be one of defense, not offense, proving that the key to success was controlling an opponents ability to score, specifically in the paint where the easiest opportunities to score are to had. The game was forever changed and that same principle is as valid today as it was back in 1962.
So much for the idiotic half witted assumptions huh?
I have zero hatred for the Spurs. I call the game as it is plain and simple. You can flood my threads and posts all you want. I'm not going to stop a troll from being a troll. In the process you only expose yourself to be a moron with an agenda to be a troll flooding moron with no ability to talk basketball when it does not include mindless worship of the San Antonio Spurs. By all means little man, be you.
Do you have reading comprehension issues?
I just flat out stated that if you're here to talk basketball, rationally and objectively, I won't derail your threads. But if you descend into Kobe vs. Lebron, Kobe=greatest evar!!!1, Spur hating, Laker loving shtick, your threads/posts won't get much respect, from me or others.
And I don't like homers, which is why I'm not upstairs too often (although they have a large amount of cynics, as well). So I'm with you there.when it does not include mindless worship of the San Antonio Spurs.
Harlem, with the goods.
It appears that you did not comprehend my initial statement. No worries.
Kobe haters getting real desperate now. They're digging up per stats in a last ditch attempt to discredit him and his legacy. Classic.
"Stats are for losers. Final scores are for winners."
, man. If you aren't Michael Jordan(or the Bad Boys? Didn't watch them)? You need a good big man.
Of all the criticisms to give Kobe, that really shouldn't be one of them.
They've no other choice. This 16th hit 'em...hit 'em hard.
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