Inflation = Taxation

[Parker2112]

The narrative is not new.

[RandomGuy]

Yes that is correct. Will inflation perform on par with that average as the currency is expanded at present?

If not, why does this 93 year avg matter? Except to show that since the Federal Reserve Act 93 years ago, our Dollar has done nothing but lose ground? And to show that those in power over currency are sending our currency to sville? How has gold done in the same timeframe?

Your on the wrong track. You prove the Fed Reserve is inept. Unless Im missing something.

The real price of gold, since it was freed from currency didn't change all that much since 1971.

I took a notional $1,000 and invested it in gold on Jan 1, 1980, then mirrored that investment in Ford stock on the same date.

As of about 2009, the gold would have been worth about 2,400, the Ford stock, assuming dividend reinvestments, would have been worth $57,000. (note: this is from memory of somethign I did a year or two ago, but the amounts are at least in the ball park)

Current factors point to de-flation being more probable than hyper-inflation. We have massively increased the scary money supply and have seen little to no inflation. Give it another few years of little to no inflation, and your "booga booga booga, look at the scary Fed with its magic money making powers, just pushing us to hyperinflation" schtick will be funny. For that reason, I am subscribing to this thread, just like I did with the oil thread, and the "McCain will win big" threads.

If you are still here, and we have not seen the hyperinflation you are promising, we can assume you were full of .

If you are right, we will all have a lot more important things to be worrying about. I'll take the time to come up and admit you were right though.

[RandomGuy]

Im not really interested in your math. Make your point. If you have one. Try to keep it on point.

My ultimate point is that you don't understand the underlying concepts well enough to reproduce a simple time value of money equation.

The calculation I am asking you to show is a VERY simple one.

I will give you one last chance to ferret 3.2...% out of 1923% total for 93 years.

If you can't do the math, just say so.

I would assert that much of your concern about this is based on ignorance, and your inability to demonstrate the mastery of the most basic time value of money concepts by doing ONE calculation is fair proof of that assertion.

That does not mean that your claims are invalid, but it does allow us to wonder if there is something you are leaving out in your arguments, out of simple ignorance.

[Parker2112]

I cant promise hyperinflation. You cant promise it wont happen. The immediate forecast calls for deflation, certainly. For those that predict hyperinflation, they claim it will take several years to materialize. I have said myself that the increase in currency doesnt create immediate inflation.

Even if you claim these are all scare tactics, it would serve your civic duty to investigate, and to know the nuts and bolts of the Feds practices, including fractional reserve lending, by which Banks printing currency can make massive profits. It supports the value of the position.

And even if the fed is not sinister in its intent, why would we voluntarily pay this interest when our treasury can do the job INTEREST FREE? No one seems to be knowledgable enough to answer this question.

I dont have expertise in economics. Most of my info comes from Ron Paul's commentary. I am a Libertarian. However, I myself am deeply disturbed by histories warnings on centralized banking which is not controlled by the people. Wait for it...

[Parker2112]

My ultimate point is that you don't understand the underlying concepts well enough to reproduce a simple time value of money equation.

The calculation I am asking you to show is a VERY simple one.

I will give you one last chance to ferret 3.2...% out of 1923% total for 93 years.

If you can't do the math, just say so.

I would assert that much of your concern about this is based on ignorance, and your inability to demonstrate the mastery of the most basic time value of money concepts by doing ONE calculation is fair proof of that assertion.

That does not mean that your claims are invalid, but it does allow us to wonder if there is something you are leaving out in your arguments, out of simple ignorance.

You assume too much. I dont give a about making your point for you. Im not interested in your aside, because generally thats all you serve up is asides...

[Wild Cobra]

When is Parker not full of ?

I wasn't following this thread, but is that 1913 Ford being compared to cars of today, saying that they should cost so much?

Ridiculous. No pollution standards then, far less taxes, less worker benefits, etc. Today's cars would be more affordable than back then. because of technology if it wasn't for costs built in that were not then.

Also...

I agree with the 3.23%, and the long term stock market does beat inflation and gold.

[Wild Cobra]

You assume too much. I dont give a about making your point for you. Im not interested in your aside, because generally thats all you serve up is asides...

So what is your point?

[Parker2112]

Why must we borrow every dollar put in circulation?

Because that is one of the mechanisms of our currency. Why should we care about the mechanics, as long as it works?

IT WORKS TO PRODUCE MASSIVE DEBT DUMBASS!


Why not simply issue currency backed by FF&C of the US?

Treasury bonds are backed by the full faith and credit of the US.

ANSWER THE QUESTION, WHY DONT YOU.

The tax revenue goes straight to interest on debt, and every dollar in circ is borrowed...can you explain this necessity?

It is a fiat currency.

WRONG. THE DEBT MONEY SYSTEM EXPLAINS THE PRACTICE, BUT IT IS NOT A NECESSITY.

Why not greenbacks?

No reason. But then, we could just as easily ask "why not purple unicorns?".

In all of this handwaving, you have yet to point out why all of this is really bad.

Yes, it is debt. Debt is not in and of itself a bad thing. It is simply the tool used.

If you want to replace it, you will end up replacing it with some different tool, with its own drawbacks and advantages.

What would you have us do?

HOW ABOUT GREENBACKS CAN BE MANAGED BY OUR GOVT, IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE PEOPLE, AND WITHOUT PUTTING FUTURE GENERATIONS UNDER SUCH A MASSIVE DEBT LOAD TO BIG BANKS?

THE FACT THAT YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE EFFECT OF THE DEBT MONEY SYSTEM SAYS SO MUCH. MAYBE YOU CAN FIGURE THE TIME VALUE ON OUR TOTAL EXPORTS TO TUNISIA IN 1997 NEXT, TO DEFLECT FROM WHAT YOU DONT KNOW....

[Parker2112]

You lose.

Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Why must we borrow every dollar put in circulation?

Because that is one of the mechanisms of our currency. Why should we care about the mechanics, as long as it works?

IT WORKS TO PRODUCE MASSIVE DEBT DUMBASS!

[Parker2112]

1 more time: You lose.

Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Why must we borrow every dollar put in circulation?

Because that is one of the mechanisms of our currency. Why should we care about the mechanics, as long as it works?

IT WORKS TO PRODUCE MASSIVE DEBT DUMBASS!

[Parker2112]

uno mas:
You lose.

Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Why must we borrow every dollar put in circulation?

Because that is one of the mechanisms of our currency. Why should we care about the mechanics, as long as it works?

IT WORKS TO PRODUCE MASSIVE DEBT DUMBASS!

[Parker2112]

Please let me finish:
You lose.

Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Why must we borrow every dollar put in circulation?

Because that is one of the mechanisms of our currency. Why should we care about the mechanics, as long as it works?

IT WORKS TO PRODUCE MASSIVE DEBT DUMBASS!

[Parker2112]

calculate the time value of your annihilation here today. Check my math on your dumbassery.

[RandomGuy]

I cant promise hyperinflation. You cant promise it wont happen. The immediate forecast calls for deflation, certainly. For those that predict hyperinflation, they claim it will take several years to materialize. I have said myself that the increase in currency doesnt create immediate inflation.

Even if you claim these are all scare tactics, it would serve your civic duty to investigate, and to know the nuts and bolts of the Feds practices, including fractional reserve lending, by which Banks printing currency can make massive profits. It supports the value of the position.

And even if the fed is not sinister in its intent, why would we voluntarily pay this interest when our treasury can do the job INTEREST FREE? No one seems to be knowledgable enough to answer this question.

I dont have expertise in economics. Most of my info comes from Ron Paul's commentary. I am a Libertarian. However, I myself am deeply disturbed by histories warnings on centralized banking which is not controlled by the people. Wait for it...

I will take that as an admission that you can't calculate the number. Fair enough.

It is:

19.23 ^1/93

We voluntarily pay the interest, because it provides a "risk-free" return, and forms the basis of a financial system.

Hyper-inflation is a mild possibility, but remote. It is actually easier for the Fed to reign that in than it is to curb de-flation.

As I have said before the Fed operates under a microscope. The second that anyone even got a whiff of some conspiracy to milk people out of money for the benefit of the people running the thing, the US government would step in and break its neck. That Sword of Damocles has hung, and will continue to hang over it.

Could it be used for evil purposes? I guess.

But that would not jive with everything I have read from people who have actually worked there.

[Parker2112]

Because maybe you missed it:
You lose.

Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Why must we borrow every dollar put in circulation?

Because that is one of the mechanisms of our currency. Why should we care about the mechanics, as long as it works?

IT WORKS TO PRODUCE MASSIVE DEBT DUMBASS!

[Parker2112]

Truth is, we borrow our currency because banking interests bought their way into the loop.

Many claim it is uncons utional, and only resulted from bribes to congress.

We could have the treasury print greenbacks all day, every day, debt free. This might rid us of boom/bust cycles.

And the fact that no one even understands the system leads me to believe the narrative is right on the money.

[RandomGuy]

1 more time: You lose.

uno mas:
You lose.

Please let me finish:
You lose.

One of the first Rules of the Internet is that declaring victory in your own thread is a full admission of loss, not to mention apallingly lame.

[Winehole23]

We could have the treasury print greenbacks all day, every day, debt free. This might rid us of boom/bust cycles.

And you call us naive.

[RandomGuy]

I dont have expertise in economics. Most of my info comes from Ron Paul's commentary.

Sigworthy. WIN.

[Parker2112]

One of the first Rules of the Internet is that declaring victory in your own thread is a full admission of loss, not to mention apallingly lame.

You could have easily said: "youre right, I didnt know that there is a debt free alternative to borrowing to produce currency! Thanks Parker!" And then you would have been admitting that you are just like 90+% of folks: in the dark.

[RandomGuy]

We could have the treasury print greenbacks all day, every day, debt free. This might rid us of boom/bust cycles.

Why don't you ask Mr. Mugabe how that worked for him?

[Parker2112]

And you call us naive.

How do you think we operated before the fed? And many say that the banking interests worked against the economy prior to the Fed Res Act to create panics, just so they could step in and seize control through paid politicians.

When were greenbacks used, WH? And what did our pres say at the time?

[RandomGuy]

And you call us naive.

, that's going in my siggy too.

[Parker2112]

Why don't you ask Mr. Mugabe how that worked for him?

So US currency is on par with Zimbabwe? Faith in our currency is on par with that of a third world nation?

Dont bother answering that. Just quit. Just stop.

[Parker2112]

, that's going in my siggy too.

Just be sure to add this, then people will think you have a ing clue:

Abe Lincoln
The government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credit needed to satisfy the spending power of the government and the buying power of consumers. The privilege of creating and issuing money is not only the supreme prerogative of government, but it is the government’s greatest creative opportunity. The financing of all public enterprise, and the conduct of the treasury will become matters of practical administration. Money will cease to be master and will then become servant of humanity.

... the privilege of creating and issuing money... is the government's greatest creative opportunity... [saving] the taxpayers immense sums of money