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I'm not so sure that a feeling isn't an opinion. I more take issue with the characterization of the feeling as bigoted. It seems to me Mr. Williams was fired for revealing his own human frailty and irrationality.
I can see where someone who was completely, profoundly, ignorant of JW's writings and news pieces would adopt this stance. Willfull ignorance...it's not just for boutons anymore.
I'm not so sure that a feeling isn't an opinion. I more take issue with the characterization of the feeling as bigoted. It seems to me Mr. Williams was fired for revealing his own human frailty and irrationality.
So you ignore the explanation they give completely? The comment WAS bigoted. Can you give me a rational explanation for feeling afraid of Muslims wearing religious clothing or can you only give me an emotional explanation completely overturned by overwhelming statistics?
I'm not sure what explanation you mean.
No. Feelings of fear and insecurity are not rational, but neither do I think they are necessarily bigoted.
Last edited by Winehole23; 10-22-2010 at 10:35 AM.
If Juan Williams is a bigot based on one comment standing alone, the word has no meaning anymore.
Which, to me, seemed to be a point he was attempting to make which would be very consistent with his writing.
The explanation from NPR not singling this episode out but rather citing a long line of infractions of their ethics code for journalists. While everyone seems to be focused in on his comments here NPR did provide a different explanation for his firing which I linked in this thread. You could choose to ignore it as a convient cover story for them, but even Darrin pointed out William's history of going on these shows for years.
I don't see how they're not when you acknowledge their irrationality. I'm honestly at a loss to understand how someone can look at a Muslim boarding a plane and think they are a ing terrorist and be afraid. Its so completely irrational that you might as well be afraid of the boogey man coming out of your closet at night.No. Feelings of fear and insecurity are not rational, but neither do I think they are necessarily bigoted.
To be sure, I can see how offering that point on Fox News might raise some pious, liberal eyebrows, but it's a reasonable -- even anodyne -- opinion.
Thats the myth of equivalency again.
All bigots hold irrational views. Not all irrational views are bigoted.
Lol @ tag teaming Manny. Sorry dude.
Not sure what that has to with with the allegedly bigoted nature of Mr. Williams comments, which is what I thought we were discussing. NPR can be justified by its own policy and moronic for following it to a T in this case. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
You got NPR's back, even after Ellen Weiss publicly suggested Williams needs psychiatric help. That's your prerogative.
If others wish to focus on other things, that's theirs.
It's like that, yes. People can be like that. It doesn't make them all bigots. Juan Williams admitting he has moments like that doesn't make him one either. I think you have to look at the totality of someone's words/actions before coming to that conclusion, instead of flying off the handle every time someone puts a foot wrong.
Last edited by Winehole23; 10-22-2010 at 10:52 AM.
So you're saying that NPR also fired the English Language?
Perhaps 9/11 created a lot of bigots, WH. I don't think he's a bad man and he's obviously very intelligent, but being afraid of a religious group for no rational reason is pretty much bigotry in my book.
What about all irrational fears of religious groups? I don't think I made the equivalence that you're insinuating.
Welcome to zero tolerance land, where context cannot exist.
Are you kidding me? This is actually fun. I have no problem disagreeing with people like you and WH and discussing it and it sure beats the out of speaking with certain others in this forum who have spent all of their mental strength on figuring out how to embed youtubes.Lol @ tag teaming Manny. Sorry dude.
Or welcome to post 9/11 America where irrational fear isn't considered bigotry.
He straight up illustrated the irrationality...he highlighted it for examination only to be branded a bigot by those who wont read him outside of this instance.
No. I'm suggesting you fired the context and common sense appreciation for his admitted human frailty.
For the record I believe her comments to be extremely unprofessional. Perhaps I made the mistake of framing your debate in the same context as others but when you called their move stupid I equated your argument with those who are also saying NPR should lose public money etc etc.
I said the comment was a bigoted comment. I've clearly stated Juan Williams isn't a bad person in my limited opinion. My comments were clearly focused on the comment itself. One who makes comments like that is by definition a bigot, but that on its own carries little weight without a history.If others wish to focus on other things, that's theirs.
It's like that, yes. People can be like that. It doesn't make them all bigots. Juan Williams admitting he has moments like that doesn't make him one either. I think you have to look at the totality of someone's words/actions before coming to that conclusion, instead of flying off the handle every time someone puts a foot wrong.
Perhaps not all bigots are created, equal, WH. I think its safe to say that Juan Williams is not the same as a Klansman.
Did I? I didn't remove the nuance from my argument, WH. You only perceived I did.
Ahhh screw it....Im gonna find some youtubes.
I disagree. Accusations of bigotry carry a lot of weight, even if the occasion is minor.
http://reason.com/blog/2010/10/21/juan-goneWilliams' firing is a clarifying moment in media mores. You can be Islamophobic, in the form of refusing to run the most innocuous imaginable political cartoons out of a broad-brush fear of Muslims, but you can't admit it, even when the fear is expressed as a personal feeling and not a group description, winnowed down to the very specific and nightmare-exhuming act of riding on an airplane, and uttered in a context of otherwise repudiating collective guilt and overbroad fearmongering.
I'll read it in a bit, but the premise that refusing to run cartoons is islamaphobic is completely wrong because that anticipates the reaction of an extremest group and not all Muslims. Poorly thought out parallel.
Williams: NPR was looking for reason to fire him
By BRETT ZONGKER, Associated Press Writer Brett Zongker, Associated Press Writer – 5 mins ago
NPR very actively discourages staff from being too politically active. It was noted by NPR itself in a piece I listened to last night that they have forbidden staff from attending Stewarts March to Restore Sanity in a couple of weeks.WASHINGTON – Ousted NPR analyst Juan Williams said Friday that he believes his former employer had been looking for a reason to fire him and used comments he made this week about Muslim airline passengers as an excuse to do so. Meanwhile, a U.S. senator said he would start the ball rolling to cut federal funding to the network.
Muslim groups were outraged by Williams' comments Monday on Fox News that he gets nervous when he sees people in Muslim dress on planes. But Williams' firing two days later prompted complaints by conservatives and even some liberals that NPR went too far.
Williams said Friday on ABC's "Good Morning America" that he believes NPR had wanted to fire him for some time because they disapproved of his appearances on shows by his other employer, Fox News. Opinions Williams expressed on Fox News over the years had strained his relationship with NPR to the point that the public radio network asked him to stop using its name when he appeared on Bill O'Reilly's show.
"I think they were looking for a reason to get rid of me," he said Friday. "They were uncomfortable with the idea that I was talking to the likes of Bill O'Reilly or Sean Hannity." Hannity hosts another Fox show
From what it is worth, it appears Mr. Williams is likely right when he says this.
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