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15-30
We got a taste of the NBA's new technical foul rule in the Heat-Celtics game last night. One of the Heat assistant coaches was T'd for disrespecting the officials from the sideline. And because the new rule has been so well publicised, it was absolutely clear what he had done to draw the foul - right?
Not so much. The television crew covering the game was forced to go back through the video to try and find out what had happened. Even then, the commentators were left to speculate that one particular hand gesture must have been the problem. I'm not talking about a one-finger salute type of hand gesture. It was more on the order of holding his hands up, open and at shoulder level. One of the commentators said that he understood that assistants aren't supposed to talk to the refs at all. I don't know it that is true or not, which is sort of a problem.
In the late game, Houston's Kevin Martin was whistled for barking at one of the refs over a call. Maybe he gestured, or maybe it was the unhappy look on his face. I've seen worse, much worse, in virtually every NBA game I've watched in the last 5 or 6 years. It got me wondering if Tim could be called for a technical for simply opening his eyes really, really wide. Once again, we don't know. And onece again that is sort of a problem.
I don't like rules that can't reallly be stated clearly, or uniformly enforced. Especially when the league is going for a big crackdown, and my favorite team has been singled out as the example of what will no longer be tolerated. I could list a score of other players Kobe Bryantwho routinely protest as bad as, or worse than Duncan. Many of them get very angry and vocal, but it appears that what the league doesn't like is a player who protests silently. It's those shrugs and laughs that really undermine the authority of the officials.
So what do you think? How many technical fouls will the Spurs collect this season? Will it be a lot more than previous seasons, or will they completely quit reacting to calls? The old British royalty used to employ "whipping boys". When a young prince misbehaved, the whipping boy would be punished rather than the future king. Maybe one of the Spurs assistants should step up to be the designated complainer for the players, and collect T's on their behalf. It seems easy enough for an assistant to get the refs attention these days.
15-30
40
However many it takes early to shut them up is fine with me.
Duncan and Pop will pick up at least 5-10 each
I don't see much consistency in these new "tech" rules, and its only day 1 of the season, which makes me think its not so much an effort to clean things up but rather another way Stern and his crooked legion of dirty referees can influence games.
Example: In yesterday's rockets vs lakers, Lamar Odumb charges into Budinger who was a good two feet in front of the circle. The arrogant asshole gets that crying pouty expression on his face and stands for a good 5 seconds, hands outstretched towards the officials as if indicating that Budinger was somehow standing in the circle, which he clearly wasn't. The rockets were already halfway up the court before Odumb finally turned and started running back to play defense. Officials do nothing for the crybaby's insolent display.
Later on in the game, Kevin Martin gets called for a shooting foul on (guess who!). Replay shows it was a horrible call, Martin doesn't even touch Kobe. Frustrated, Martin instead turns away from the officals and starts running back and pumps his arm in disgust with the call. He's immediately tee'd up.
In an unrelated note, the damn commercials nearly drove me insane during that rocket vs laker game. I had to make liberal use of the 'mute' button. Between the rapping asian doofus on a jetski to Derek Fisher pimping yet another energy drink to that horseface Sarah Jessica Parker struttin' around like ms perfect.. geesh...
Thanks, TJastal. I was hoping someone would mention that. It doesn't have to be a conspiracy. We all pretty much accept that certain players get (or avoid) certain calls because of their reputation and stature in the league. Just like we have all grown accustomed to the idea that rookies get no "respect" from the refs - which is a nice way of saying that the whistles aren't evenly distributed. So what would make us think that this new technical foul rule will be any different?
The problem is that when this rule is enforced unequally, it's really going to stand out like a sore thumb. Stern seems to believe that he can cause the referees to be seen in a more positive light, by preventing the players from disrespecting them. But when Lamar Odom is allowed to demonstrate on one end of the floor, while Kevin Martin is T'd up for demonstrating on the other end? That's not going to help the official's cause.
If they are going to enforce this rule at the first sign of a demonstration, they had better do it 100% across the board, without any consideration for the player, the team, or the home court. If they don't it is going to open up more complaints of bias than they have ever had before. Because these calls are outside the game, and the infractions aren't taking place at game speed.
And if they can't see that, maybe it really is a conspiracy.
I don't know about you, but I had a much harder time listening to Steve Kerr last night. Maybe it was some of the things that happened when he was with Phoenix. But I'm not looking forward to a whole season of his voice.
Jefferson will have 25 to 30. Easily.
The only player on the Spurs that I can see maybe having problems with this is Duncan but he's a cerebral player and cares about the team and winning to the point where he should adapt if it becomes a problem. The rest of the roster seems to always handle the refs well and technicals hasn't been a problem for the Spurs.
It'll be interesting to see how its enforced but as for the games last night I think the home court advantage had a big factor in it.
With the new restrictions, and the fact refs are human just like anyone else, it's really hard to tell. Every team is probably gonna jump up a little.
Kevin Martin did the "ah, phooey" hand gesture which is an automatic technical. Why anyone complains about that is completely incomprehensible.
Look back at my post. Find where I objected to the refs calling a technical on Kevin Martin. You can't, because it's not there. I don't object to them calling it. I have a problem with them not being consistent. I don't understand why certain people feel the need to be so combattive. But if you are going to do it, at least don't be sloppy or try to put words in someone else's mouth. It's sort of ridiculous to flame someone for something they didn't say.
Here's what Stern recently had to say about the rule:
"When somebody thinks they've been fouled, and they spend -- rather than getting back on defense, they spend the entire time explaining to the referee all the way up. Stop it. That's only designed to undermine the official."
Stern gave a specific example. Lamar Odom did exactly what Stern described, and there was no technical foul call. Stern thinks arguing with the refs undermines them. You know what I think undermines refs? It's when they are inconsistent with the rules. I don't care if they call technicals for complaining - I just want them to do it consistently. And that includes handing out major fines every time Phil Jackson undermines the refs in a press conference.
You say that the "ahh phooey" gesture is an automatic technical. But we have all seen people do it and not get whistled. That's not automatic, it's subjective. It's automatic only in the sense that they have justification for the times when they do elect to call the technical.
Now be honest: Under the new rule, if Tim Duncan were to to exactly what Lamar Odom did last night (and what Stern specifically described), do you think he would get assessed a T by the refs? Regardless of what you say, most people here know the answer to that.
I'd be happy if they got rid of all the whining and complaining in the game. I'd also be happy if they got rid of all the bad calls during the course of a game - but that can't happen. So what I would most like is for the calls to be applied consistently. And that includes technical fouls for complaining.
Is there any part of that you find incomprehensible?
Actually I was responding to TJ's post. According to him, Lamar Odom didn't say a word, which means it's far from the example in the Stern quote. If Lamar wants to stand there like a dumbass while the other team has a 5 on 4 advantage, the refs are probably fine with that. The hand gesture Martin made was likely to draw a tech last year, and it's definitely going to draw one this year with the new enforcement.
Here's what Stern recently had to say about the rule:
"When somebody thinks they've been fouled, and they spend -- rather than getting back on defense, they spend the entire time explaining to the referee all the way up. Stop it. That's only designed to undermine the official."
Stern gave a specific example. Lamar Odom did exactly what Stern described, and there was no technical foul call. Stern thinks arguing with the refs undermines them. You know what I think undermines refs? It's when they are inconsistent with the rules. I don't care if they call technicals for complaining - I just want them to do it consistently. And that includes handing out major fines every time Phil Jackson undermines the refs in a press conference.
You say that the "ahh phooey" gesture is an automatic technical. But we have all seen people do it and not get whistled. That's not automatic, it's subjective. It's automatic only in the sense that they have justification for the times when they do elect to call the technical.
Now be honest: Under the new rule, if Tim Duncan were to to exactly what Lamar Odom did last night (and what Stern specifically described), do you think he would get assessed a T by the refs? Regardless of what you say, most people here know the answer to that.
I'd be happy if they got rid of all the whining and complaining in the game. I'd also be happy if they got rid of all the bad calls during the course of a game - but that can't happen. So what I would most like is for the calls to be applied consistently. And that includes technical fouls for complaining.
Is there any part of that you find incomprehensible?
As for your post, you're referring to what you've been watching over previous years. Only problem is, the change was announced just prior to this season. We've seen two games so far. There's not any ing way you can complain about a lack of consistency on DAY TWO OF THE SEASON. In my estimation, you're simply looking for a reason to whine about how mean David Stern is to the Spurs.
Here's the bottom line: Duncan didn't talk to officials when he was an MVP. He didn't even question bad calls. Now he's an embarrassment. He needs to shut the up. So does the rest of his team. If he doesn't want a technical, I'm sure he has the self control to keep from "opening his eyes really, really wide". Nobody goes after officials on behalf of his players more than Gregg Popovich does. They should rely on him as a resource and concentrate on their game.
.
You know... no matter how you keep score in life, they don't give any extra points for being a prick. Do you act like this in your professional life, or at home with your wife and kids? You must be a joy to be around.
Last edited by GSH; 10-27-2010 at 07:31 PM.
When's the first Joey Crawford game?
I wasn't even responding to your post, and you got your ass all bent out of shape and started lecturing me, so you might take your own advice about being a prick, you stupid bag.
Now you're calling me names because I correctly pointed out that you can't tell the ing difference between BEFORE the rule change and AFTER the rule change. You still can't seem to tell the difference since I clearly stated that it was likely to be a technical last year and is definitely going to be one this year (I even underlined it and you still can't figure it out.)
By the way, I watched both games last night. I'm not sure where you got it in your head that I didn't, but it doesn't change the fact that two games is not enough time to start saying they aren't consistent with the calls.
Meh... I didn't even bother reading your last whine. With that many emotes, there's never any content. Now you'll just have to go kick the dog, or yell at your wife or whatever people like you do.
Next time, try to just disagree without being such a tool, and you won't wind up feeling to frustrated.
I wasn't disagreeing with you, you stupid moron. This is the third time I'm telling you that I was responding to TJ's post. I'm laughing at you because you're an idiot.
First off, only a moron believes this is a cut and dry issue. Guess what, its still subjective to the referee's interpretation and discretion whatever you may believe.
Second, Martin's "ah, phooey" hand gesture wasn't even directed at the official, in fact he had turned away and was running back down the court. I think there is a legitimate difference, and as GSH pointed out for you, Stern's main problem is players getting into officials' faces to show them up,argue, and/or disrespect, which is exactly what Odumb did (and does all the time).
The announcers even made mention of the fact that Martin was just blowing off steam and that players need to be able to do that in a way that is appropriate.
I Think the Spurs will be alright as far as the new rule is concerned. they are not stupid and Pop knows how to calm them down.
I honestly dont foresee more than 3 TF's added to their average.
I, For one, amd glad they added this rule.... It just remains to be seen how much its abused by overzealous refs.
Tonight watching the clipper-blazer game, I caught this snippet.
Mike Breen: Baron Davis, testing the rookie Arman Johnson from Nevada and the foul is called..., and we have a technical foul. So, this..new rule regarding technicals and overreacting or ANY demonstrative action has been called here, by Monty McCutcheon on the rookie Johnson.
Hubie Brooks: Well..,
Mike Breen: (interrupting) And before that, he was called for a 'T', and we've been talking about that throughout the year.
Hubie Brooks: I think it puts alot of pressure on the refs, Mike. What is a 'T' tonight, who is the guy who is doing the demonstration. Last night in the laker game, a prime time player, one of the best that we have in the league did EXACTLY the same thing in the lane (laughs) in front of the guy, and there was no call. That's why I say, WHO is the guy who is demonstrating, and, WHAT section of the game are we in.
Mike Breen: You mean, game 2 for Arman Johnson? Different set of rules?
Hubie: (laughs)
Lemme think here, who's opinion do I trust more, mine & a 29 year hall of fame twice named COY turned nba analyst...
or Obstructed_nutsack on spurstalk...
hmm... tough choice, but I think I'll go with me & Hubie.
Last edited by TJastal; 10-28-2010 at 03:46 AM.
maybe 1 every 2 games
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