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There is already a Kobe Bryant thread
Bored. So I was wondering which player (out of the few I looked up--wanted to do Bird and Magic, but BBallref only goes to back 1987) performed best in the last Finals game of a particular series. All final games are considered, not just those that resulted in a victory for said player. I was curious to see how each player did in a "win and go home," or "win or go home" situation. Let's get to it (alphabetical order).
(blocks are left out for perimeter players, steals left out for big men)
Kobe Bryant
7 games: .344FG%, 25.1ppg, 4.8rpg, 4.2apg, 1.28spg
Tim Duncan
4 games: .421FG%, 22.2ppg, 13.75rpg, 4.5apg, 3.25bpg
Michael Jordan
6 games: .447FG%, 33.6ppg, 6.1rpg, 5.5apg, 2.8spg
Shaq
6 games: 538FG%, 26.3ppg, 12.8rpg, 2apg, 2.6bpg
Gotta go. Get back with Zeke and Hakeem later on today. In the meantime, discuss.
Last edited by midnightpulp; 10-29-2010 at 01:39 PM. Reason: In light of the Jam/Heat statistical debacle, went through and double checked
There is already a Kobe Bryant thread
Any less on the (apg) and that L.A. jeweler don't need to carve up any leather balls, eh?
tee, hee.
How about Daddy's stats? Might be the best of the 4.
Yeah, I know. I actually made the post that started that thread.
But this involves more players than Kobe. So what's your point?
Oh, I get it, Lefty trying to be funny.
Not trying to be funny
I did notice you have included other players, but everybody here knows that most of your posts consist of bashing Kobe and the Lakers, so don't pretend this thread is any different
I got bored too. So I looked at performances of game 3 of the NBA Finals. You see, the last game of the Finals can be deceiving. Take for example if it's a game 4 where one team clearly is better than the other and is up 3-0 in the Finals. Do you take much from the inevitable game 4 stats of players on either team? Now game 3 is almost always pivotal in the Finals. The team is either up 2 games and can drive the final nail in the coffin (generally on the road). Or the team is down 2 games and it's a must-win situation for the team that is down. Or it's 1-1 with a change of venue and game 3 will go a long way in deciding the course of the series. Rather the last game of the series where sometimes the game doesn't have the juice or pressure you might think because of how the rest of the series went, game 3 always has that juice.
That said, let's look at game 3 stats of players in the NBA Finals.
Kobe Bryant 6 games (was injured for game 3 of the 2000 NBA Finals)
29.2 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 4.2 APG, 1.3 SPG, 45.7% FG
Tim Duncan 4 games
17.3 PPG, 11.8 RPG, 4.0 APG, 1.8 BPG, 41.0% FG
Michael Jordan 6 games
30.8 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 5.3 APG, 2.2 SPG, 44.7% FG
Discuss more.
Jammie, the Juiceman!
I found stats for game 8 of the finals, as it is by far the most meaningful game of the series, as it comes after the pivotal game 7 in which someone is crowned the winner of the series, so obviously it has utmost importance. Here are the stats.
Kobe Bryant 0 games
0.0 PPG, 0.0 RPG, 0.0 APG, 0.0 SPG, 0.0% FG
Tim Duncan 0 games
0.0 PPG, 0.0 RPG, 0.0 APG, 0.0 SPG, 0.0% FG
Michael Jordan 0 games
0.0 PPG, 0.0 RPG, 0.0 APG, 0.0 SPG, 0.0% FG
Discuss.
Game 3 isn't always pivotal.
How about when the team with home court adv is up 2-0 and "takes game 3 off," which happens more often than not, usually resulting in a blowout for the home team? I've seen more uneventful game 3's in the Finals than I can count.
Or why not single out Game 2? Either the road team steals home court, or the home team defends. I'd say Game 2 is more pivotal than Game 3.
If you want to talk pivotal games, choose game 5 (provided the series goes 5+ games).
And for series less than 5 games, I think game 2 is usually where the series is decided, thus it's the "pivotal game."
But we all know why you picked Game 3, because Kobe comes out looking the best.
And I know you'll accuse me of the same, having an ulterior motive, but Duncan's stats are comparatively similar to Kobe's in this instance. His .417FG is nothing to celebrate.
If I really wanted to troll Kobe fanboys, I wouldn't have wasted the 45min it took to add up all those stats.
Last edited by midnightpulp; 10-29-2010 at 11:29 AM.
lol @ transparency.
Let's reduce the many variables down to just the last game of a playoff series! That's how you logically and objectively determine everything!
lol @ you holding hands with lefty.
And what exactly am I trying to "reduce?"
I didn't make an argument in this thread. Just presented stats as they are.
Kobe fanboys, so insecure.
I actually chose game 3 for the reasons I stated. And I didn't look at any other games to see if Kobe was better or worse in other games. There's not always a game 5 in the Finals, and when a team is up 3-1, game 5s can be very much like game 4 sweeps. Game 2 is not more pivotal. Teams are expected to win at home in the playoffs, even the Finals. No matter how the first two games went, game 3 is the where the series starts.
Game 3 is always pivotal because the series isn't decided either way before game 3. 2-0 has been overcome before. 3-0 has never been overcome in the NBA Finals (as far as I know). So either the team up 2-0 or the team down 0-2 has everything to play for in game 3. When the series is tied 1-1, it's anyone's series to take and that means the team's split the first two at someone's homecourt. That makes it imperative for the road team to get homecourt advantage back.
I would be more than amenable to conceding game 3 isn't "always" pivotal as you mentioned in your example where the team who won the first two games at home could take game 3 off. But I think game 3s are much more pivotal than just generalizing "last game of the finals," where there are plenty of instances where the series had long been decided and the last game was more less pomp and cir stance.
It's amusing you would accuse me of choosing game 3 to hype Kobe when we all know your motive in choosing the last game of the Finals. Hypocrisy at its finest.
How about stats for all elimination games? I'd say those are pretty pivotal.
Not holding hands with anyone but the truth, where I always stand. Someone speaks the truth, I side with truth over transparent idiocy every day of the week.
You are not trying to reduce. You did reduce the game down to exactly what you posted "series ending games." If no logical deduction was to be made with the specifically selected evidence then you are just a chimp boy posting irrelevant numbers without interpretation.
Lol, again, you are transparent. And extremely ignorant of the game itself.
Stop using logic. That's not fair.
This is a smart troll thread from a smart insightful poster who knows so much about the game we all should be grateful he is sharing his statistical knowledge with us.
What's my "motive" exactly?
Kobe's last game stats aren't much different than his overall Finals stats. If I wanted to denigrate Kobe by showing his underwhelming Finals performances compared to other all-time great players, I could've simply posted his complete statistics and saved myself a lot of time by not breaking down individual games.
But you saw the .351 FG percentage and started hitting the keys, when in fact Kobe is a 40% career shooter in the Finals, so he doesn't drop off that much in a final game. And when you consider the pressure of the situation and how fatigued a player will be by that time, .35% isn't that bad.
Jordan, Duncan, and Shaq all saw their FG% drop a few points by the final game.
I have to agree with Midnightpulp pn that one
Most of the time you are harassing me for no reason, but when I'm criticizing someone for bashing your beloved Lakers, all of sudden you are on my side
GTFO
I bet if Kobe had the best stats of the bunch, you wouldn't even have posted in this thread.
But since that 35% jumped out at you and it was me posting, your Kobe-defense system went into overdrive.
Truthfully, I don't think Kobe's stats are all that bad, all things considered.
Well played, sir. Very well played.
Are you kidding? 35% FGs is terrible. A five-percent drop is pretty big. As you note, all those elite players saw their FG% drop -- not surprising given fatigue and facing elite defenses playing as hard as they can.
But it's impossible to spin 35% FGs as anything but bad.
Despite that -- Jamstone is absolutely correct. Game 3s are a really big deal and as it so happens Kobe's been pretty great in those games.
Nope.
Has nothing to do with Kobe's stats, there's just nothing logical to deduct from the threads presentation of statistics.
Then don't bother posting.
All you Kobe fanboys (yourself, Jam) are turning a simple presentation of stats into something it isn't.
A 3-0 series lead has never been lost in any NBA playoff series, not just the Finals.
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