Pau Gasol or Dirk Nowitzki?

[monosylab1k]

Pretty harsh to say Pau would have only led the Mavs to 35 wins last year when he led a Memphis team to 50 wins with James Posey as the second leading scorer. In fact the two Memphis teams he led to 50 and 49 wins respectively had far less talent and depth than the supporting cast on the Mavs last year. Now if you want to say Pau wouldn't have led them to as good a record, I wouldn't necessarily disagree. But 35 wins with the supporting talent Dallas has? Wow. I don't agree with that at all.

Memphis in the Pau years had the benefit of a top-heavy Western Conference with TONS of mediocre teams to take advantage of. He wouldn't last in a Western conference with 8 legitimage 50 win teams. In fact, the year the Western conferece basically had what amounted to just about 8 fifty-win teams was the year the Grizzlies licked balls and Pau was shipped out to LA.

On top of that, if he isn't hitting miracle shot after miracle shot, the way Dirk was, the entire frontrunning Mavs role players (like Jet, Marion, etc) would have just quit on the team each and ever game, like they did tons of times even with Dirk.

The ulative effect of a much tougher schedule + inability to pull miracles out of his ass on a nightly basis to keep his teammates from giving up is the template for a 35 win Pau-led Mavericks team.

[Giuseppe]

Though Dirk did hightail it outta south Florida in the Summer of '06 like billy-be-jiggered.

tee, hee.

[Killakobe81]

I'm not even going to respond in depth why Dirk is a much better offensive player than Gasol. Just look at Dirk's career peak points per game average and compare that to Gasol. Not even a question really, unless of course, you just want to stroll and troll and get a rise out of Mavs fans in this board KAM.

Reading comprehension.

Le heat: I never said career peaks point per game you brought it up...

Rick James, : I never grinded my feet on eddie murphy's couch.

RJB: Yes, I grinded my feet on that s couch he could afford it ...

RJB: I never grinded my feet on the couch, cocaine is a uve drug! LOL

[Killakobe81]

Memphis in the Pau years had the benefit of a top-heavy Western Conference with TONS of mediocre teams to take advantage of. He wouldn't last in a Western conference with 8 legitimage 50 win teams. In fact, the year the Western conferece basically had what amounted to just about 8 fifty-win teams was the year the Grizzlies licked balls and Pau was shipped out to LA.

On top of that, if he isn't hitting miracle shot after miracle shot, the way Dirk was, the entire frontrunning Mavs role players (like Jet, Marion, etc) would have just quit on the team each and ever game, like they did tons of times even with Dirk.

The ulative effect of a much tougher schedule + inability to pull miracles out of his ass on a nightly basis to keep his teammates from giving up is the template for a 35 win Pau-led Mavericks team.

I think dirk had an MVP caliber season at times last year you are right he was very clutch. But me thinks you exaggerate a bit much. But teh question was who is beter and i agree dirk is better still even if Pau has better all-around skills. dirk is more dominant at scoring than Pau is at any one area of basketball. even though pau's post-game is a thing of beauty

[LeHeat_Dynasty]

Mono brought some valid points. The Western Conference was top heavy in 2003-2004, seeds 5-8 were pushovers. You can't say the same for the teams last year when all playoff teams last year won at least 50 games.


Dirks clutch factor also comes into play. I dont think Gasol is better equipped offensively to push Dallas for a 50 win season. 35 games is a bit low though. With Gasol and last years roster, I'd say they're good for around 42-44 wins.

[monosylab1k]

With Gasol and last years roster, I'd say they're good for around 42-44 wins.

I would agree, but my 35 game projection is based on the frontrunning effect of Dallas role players. Without a solid miracle maker like Dirk present, pussy ass frontrunners like Jason Terry will suck even harder, thus making the team even worse than their talent indicates they are.

[JamStone]

Memphis in the Pau years had the benefit of a top-heavy Western Conference with TONS of mediocre teams to take advantage of. He wouldn't last in a Western conference with 8 legitimage 50 win teams. In fact, the year the Western conferece basically had what amounted to just about 8 fifty-win teams was the year the Grizzlies licked balls and Pau was shipped out to LA.

On top of that, if he isn't hitting miracle shot after miracle shot, the way Dirk was, the entire frontrunning Mavs role players (like Jet, Marion, etc) would have just quit on the team each and ever game, like they did tons of times even with Dirk.

The ulative effect of a much tougher schedule + inability to pull miracles out of his ass on a nightly basis to keep his teammates from giving up is the template for a 35 win Pau-led Mavericks team.

For the record, the 2003-04 season when Memphis won 50 games, there were 6 50 game winners in the Western Conference. On top of that, only 4 of the 14 teams had losing records. The worst record in the Western Conference that year was 28-54. There were three teams in the Western Conference that had worse records than that.

Maybe a weaker conference in 2003-04 overall, but not nearly the discrepancy you make it seem.

[Ghazi]

I'm tired of this argument... we're comparing a C to a PF... I'll take DIrk still

People that pick Pau are subconsciously influenced by Pau's greater team success over the last 3 years. It's undeniable.

as for swap Pau w/ Dirk hypotheticals.. pointless, it's hard to speculate. I'd say Lakers w/ Dirk would require more production out of Bynum... and since Bynum is a bum, would probably be a little worse.

[mavsfan1000]

Bynum, Dirk, Artest, Kobe, and Fisher would be incredible. But Dirk can't play center due to not being strong enough. His outside shooting is way superior to Gasol and that is why I think he would be the better power forward for any team. Center is a different story though.

[Killakobe81]

Bynum, Dirk, Artest, Kobe, and Fisher would be incredible. But Dirk can't play center due to not being strong enough. His outside shooting is way superior to Gasol and that is why I think he would be the better power forward for any team. Center is a different story though.

Come, come Ghazi this is a spurs site. We al know that 7 footers are Power Forwards EVEN when playing with a 6 foot 7 center ....LOL

[Killakobe81]

Jamstone making people tired of this debate by bringing up facts ...

[Killakobe81]

Although not afact but when GM's are polled dik is always the answer as best foreign player ...Nash got some love for a season or two but it has been Dirk for a while

[Blackjack]

Dirk's a better No. 1 but Pau's skills and impact on both ends of the court are much more conducive to winning championships in a team setting.

I think they're both better suited being No. 2s, and in that case, most teams would be better off with Gasol.

It's just hard to find all the right pieces for an unconventional talent like Dirk (but if you can find them Dirk's your pick).

[Killakobe81]

Dirk's a better No. 1 but Pau's skills and impact on both ends of the court are much more conducive to winning championships in a team setting.

I think they're both better suited being No. 2s, and in that case, most teams would be better off with Gasol.

It's just hard to find all the right pieces for an unconventional talent like Dirk (but if you can find them Dirk's your pick).

This. Pau i more traditional dirk has kind of revolutionized the position a far as stretch 4's go ...what other stretch 4 has led his team to an NBA finals or better? KG is probably the only other one that I can think of. Rasheed, Rashard Lewis and Horry etc. were never the leaders of their teams.

Pau not the leader of the Lakers but is 1b and much more convential post player and MANY of those have been key to a le.

[cornbread]

Dirk's a better No. 1 but Pau's skills and impact on both ends of the court are much more conducive to winning championships in a team setting.

Yep. Dirk is a better #1 on offense but if you want to build a championship team, you build it around Pau not Dirk. Hence I would choose Pau.

[Giuseppe]

....exactly. Dirk is a chronological failure.

[TD 21]

Before last season, I'd take Dirk no question. I think last year, Pau became the better player. He's not the prolific scorer Dirk is, but he's still a capable 20 point scorer and he's better at pretty much every other facet of the game. He had become an elite rebounder and a very good defender. I still think Pau has his lapses where he lacks toughness, but I also think he's taken huge strides as a player. Now it's true that he plays second fiddle to Kobe while Dirk is the #1 guy in Dallas. Even taking that into consideration, I think Pau passed Dirk last year. If I need a guy to come through to score 30 points, I'd still take Dirk. I still think he's more clutch too. But if the question involves who the better player is now, I'd take Pau over Dirk.

Real consistent. So Gasol is better than Nowitzki based on that (which I agree with, by the way), but Duncan isn't better than Nowitzki? Remind me again, outside of range shooting, what's Nowitzki's better than Duncan at?

So many will tell you "defense is half the game" and "no rebound, no rings", but very few practice what they preach, in that respect. If those two things are so important, then what's a one dimensional, soft, choke artist like Nowitzki doing getting so much respect? I don't give a how many "clutch" shots he's hit in the regular season, he will always be a choke artist for what he did in '06 and '07.

Why are Bosh and Stoudemire relentlessly picked apart, while Nowitzki is relentlessly praised? I missed when he became such a more well rounded player than them.

[mavsfan1000]

Real consistent. So Gasol is better than Nowitzki based on that (which I agree with, by the way), but Duncan isn't better than Nowitzki? Remind me again, outside of range shooting, what's Nowitzki's better than Duncan at?

So many will tell you "defense is half the game" and "no rebound, no rings", but very few practice what they preach, in that respect. If those two things are so important, then what's a one dimensional, soft, choke artist like Nowitzki doing getting so much respect? I don't give a how many "clutch" shots he's hit in the regular season, he will always be a choke artist for what he did in '06 and '07.

Why are Bosh and Stoudemire relentlessly picked apart, while Nowitzki is relentlessly praised? I missed when he became such a more well rounded player than them.

Yeah he was superchoke against your Spurs in 06.

[AussieFanKurt]

Gasol without any doubt at all. I would much rather have Gasol in my team. Dunno how many assists he had @ PHX other night but he's a much more team orientated player than Dirk

[Giuseppe]

Yeah he was superchoke against your Spurs in 06.

You didn't turn it over to amount to anything, 1000. You went to Florida and were humiliated.

[Ditty]

right now gasol is better but all time better player dirk

this could be debated from that dirk has always had good players around him and when pau was with the grizz with not that much talent as dirk had in dallas

[mavsfan1000]

Gasol without any doubt at all. I would much rather have Gasol in my team. Dunno how many assists he had @ PHX other night but he's a much more team orientated player than Dirk

That is bs. Dirk is about as team oriented as you get.

[JamStone]

TD 21,

Tim Duncan has started showing his age much more than Dirk. Duncan is only 2 years older, but it appears to be enough to show his decline. His game against the Hornets demonstrated that. We're talking about players right now. Duncan isn't what he was just 2-3 years ago. Dirk still is putting in his prime numbers up and playing 36+ MPG. Dirk may be at the tail end of his prime, but he's still in his prime. I think Duncan is still a very good player in this league but he's no longer in his prime. That's why I place Dirk over Duncan.

And your criticism of Dirk's defense is exaggerated. He's not nearly as bad as you suggest. He's actually become an adequate defender. He'll never be a great defender but he'll do a good enough job on most nights. The difference between him and Amare is effort. Dirk actually gives effort defensively. Amare seems indiffierent. Bosh isn't very good defensively either but I don't think he's as bad as some make him out to be either. But a lot of it is effort as well. He played pretty good defense on the 2008 Olympic team when they asked it from him. I think the Raptors just didn't demand him to be a great defender so he wasn't. And this has been said a lot, but for most of his career, Dirk has been a very good defensive rebounder. That alone shows his effort level defensively. He doesn't have the quickness or athleticism of Amare or Bosh but he still manages to be as good defensively and as good or better rebounding the defensive glass.

Like some, you want to argue Dirk is a one dimensional player who just scores. I disagree with that. He's not. And he's still an elite player in the league. And because of Duncan's decline, I have no problem putting Dirk ahead of Duncan. And it appears most Spurs fans think the same way. You're in the minority, even among Spurs fans.

[Giuseppe]

Oh, me, Jammie is back in form.

[LkrFan]

2 rings gots!