Is Dirk the best offensive player in the game right now?

[MI21]

Dirk is amazing.

I just want to know when he is going to decline? He is a durable er as well. Just a great player.

[HarlemHeat37]

Jason Kidd is a good passer who knows how to get a player into position to score. _irk is 7' and plays like a guard. Because he is 7' he is too tall for every SF/PF in the L to guard him. Plus he is too quick for a regular 7 footer to guard him. All of this goes into his favor. If he has these advantages, he should score. Easily. Double team? Triple team? With Jason Kidd on your team he can get you the ball for you to go to work. Sure having a 2nd option is better, but not much given the advantages _irk has.

Jason Kidd hasn't been more than a role player for years now..

Kobe playing with Kidd wouldn't be impressive..Kidd's game wouldn't be the same in the triangle offense..we aren't even talking about prime Kidd here, we're talking about role player Kidd..

I also don't understand why you're listing Dirk's physical advantages over other players..obviously he wouldn't be as good if he didn't have a height advantage..the thread isn't about specific skills or anything like that, it's about which player is the best offensive player in the NBA right now, meaning, which player is the most effective..Nowitzki's physical advantages are obviously part of his effectiveness, and you can't take that away from him..

Kobe never played with anyone the caliber of J Kidd, yet he can still do damage. You say _irk doesn't have a legit 2nd option. Welcome to 2004-2007 for Kobe. No Shaq. No Malone. No Payton. Just Kwame, Cook, inconsistent LO, and Smush Parker. Everybody on the 2010 Mavs is better than that bunch. Shoot, until Pau showed up Kobe didn't have a legit 2nd option. Kobe's career high is 81. Pau played for Memphis when he did that.

I agree that prime Kobe is better than current Dirk..I don't see how that's relevant here..

[MI21]

Dirk is amazing.

I just want to know when he is going to decline? He is a durable er as well. Just a great player.

[Zelophehad]

Dirk is amazing.

I just want to know when he is going to decline? He is a durable er as well. Just a great player.

According to all of the advanced stat geeks the two biggest determinants of career length are size and shooting ability since those two don't decline as much with age, so he should be good for a few more years.

[endrity]

According to all of the advanced stat geeks the two biggest determinants of career length are size and shooting ability since those two don't decline as much with age, so he should be good for a few more years.

May I also add something here.

Dirk's shot mechanics are picture perfect. He shoots a perfect rainbow. That means that even if he can't get much of an elevation, something that some guards start to feel later on in their career, Dirk should still be an above average scorer at mid to late 30s. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to believe Dirk will still be an All-Star at 35.

[LkrFan]

I know you love your nicknames as much as you love rydin Kobe's but you may be equally as stupid as your love for those two. Didn't you say LO came to the Lakers and he was once a number one option, implying he didn't struggle to make that transition. Now he was inconsistent, because it fits your argument which just so happens to be your favorite 's owner Kobe.

Yes, when LO was a Clipper he was their #1 option. He then went on to Miami to team up with DWhistle before he was the centerpiece of the Shaq trade. Because of his inconsistencies the Lakers were never really a threat because of it. Now that we have Pau, he is a 3rd option at best and he is thriving.

[Ace]

Yes, when LO was a Clipper he was their #1 option. He then went on to Miami

Point proven

[DAF86]

It boggles my mind that people are often so nonchalant about Dirk's phenomenal FG%. It's almost like an afterthought. "Oh yeah he shoots pretty well from the field, too."

It's not even just his FG% - it's the fact that he's so damned consistent in attaining that FG%. He's not really one to have ultra efficient nights mixed with ultra poor shooting nights in a way that averages out to > 50% FG shooting.

On the contrary, Dirk's one of the most consistently efficient scorers in the game. He either has really great games or slightly less than par (for him) games. I don't remember the last time he's downright had an awful shooting night. He just doesn't have them that often.

I fear when Dirk shoots against us - every time. I think it's going in every time and it's a testament to just how steady he is.

Kobe Bryant? Kevin Durant? I don't fear them nearly as much as I fear Dirk when they take shots, because I know on any given night it's not totally unreasonable to see Kobe go 10-24 or 11-30, etc.

Dirk is a career 47% shooter.

[Booharv]

LkrFan has had some pretty ty takes in this thread.

[Ghazi]

Dirk is a career 47% shooter.

lol Manu > Dirk

[TD 21]

Dirk is amazing.

I just want to know when he is going to decline? He is a durable er as well. Just a great player.

Of course he is. He hasn't played a man's game his entire career, so as a result, he doesn't have the wear and tear of guys who do.

It doesn't take much to stand in the pinch post and shoot over guys 3-4 inches taller a lot of the time. That's why he can play big minutes (that and the fact that the Mavs need him to). Aside from carrying the offense, they really don't ask for anything else out of him. I know that sounds like a lot, but he's not like a guy like Wade or Ginobili, who often work hard to get their points. He get's a lot of his points relatively easily, which is a credit to him and to the league's coaches, who often put players significantly smaller on him.

Rebounding, shot blocking, banging in the post on both ends, consistently deep playoff runs, this is the type of stuff that wears players out over time...and the type of stuff Nowitzki knows nothing about.

[Ace]

LkrFan has had some pretty ty takes in this thread.

Story of his life...

[HarlemHeat37]

LkrFan has had some pretty ty takes in this thread.

Look at the Lakers. They never had a spectacular offense. Neither did Utah. What they do have is good coaches that have the backing of their front office to make the tough decisions if need be.

[endrity]

Of course he is. He hasn't played a man's game his entire career, so as a result, he doesn't have the wear and tear of guys who do.

It doesn't take much to stand in the pinch post and shoot over guys 3-4 inches taller a lot of the time. That's why he can play big minutes (that and the fact that the Mavs need him to). Aside from carrying the offense, they really don't ask for anything else out of him. I know that sounds like a lot, but he's not like a guy like Wade or Ginobili, who often work hard to get their points. He get's a lot of his points relatively easily, which is a credit to him and to the league's coaches, who often put players significantly smaller on him.

Rebounding, shot blocking, banging in the post on both ends, consistently deep playoff runs, this is the type of stuff that wears players out over time...and the type of stuff Nowitzki knows nothing about.

Poor Dirk, how dare he be so effective without destroying his body before he hits 30!

Dirk is a 25 and 11 guy in the playoffs, hardly taking it easy there either. For a guy that hasn't had a legit All-Star next to him during all his prime, winning an MVP, coming close to a le, and being in 4 FIRST team all-NBA it's pretty good.

The thing that I don't understand though, is why people need to turn the thread on a referendum on Dirk. The le of the OP was whether he is the best offensive player in the game right now. I don't think so, I said it earlier, but it would take a damn good argument to convince me he isn't in the top 5. Can we keep all relevant discussion within this issue. Or am I to expect a "4 rings got" argument really soon here?

[HarlemHeat37]

You can make an argument for Carmelo, too..I'd probably go with Dirk, Anthony or Gasol for this year, so far..

[endrity]

Dirk is a career 47% shooter.

How about you post some TS% here, to account the fact that he is deadly from the 3pt line as well as around 90% from the FT line for the last couple of seasons. Than we can talk.

The funny thing is I love Manu, loved him at Virtus too, before anyone in the NBA knew how to pronounce his name, which they still do it wrongly. But it's bitter fanboys like you who make people hate a specific player. Manu is great, amazing. And he will never even be closely compared to what Dirk has achieved as an individual during his NBA career. Not even remotely. One has an MVP, 2 other top 3 finishes, and 4 1st Team All-NBA. Manu can't even begin dreaming about these. So please, get a grip. I'll be on your side all day long if you argue something like Manu being the 3rd best SG in the NBA. He is not the best foreigner.

[TD 21]

Poor Dirk, how dare he be so effective without destroying his body before he hits 30!

Dirk is a 25 and 11 guy in the playoffs, hardly taking it easy there either. For a guy that hasn't had a legit All-Star next to him during all his prime, winning an MVP, coming close to a le, and being in 4 FIRST team all-NBA it's pretty good.

The thing that I don't understand though, is why people need to turn the thread on a referendum on Dirk. The le of the OP was whether he is the best offensive player in the game right now. I don't think so, I said it earlier, but it would take a damn good argument to convince me he isn't in the top 5. Can we keep all relevant discussion within this issue. Or am I to expect a "4 rings got" argument really soon here?

Like I said, it's partially a credit to him, but it's also a reality. People want to know why he's still pretty much the same player he's ever been; that's why.

Guys like O'Neal, Duncan, Garnett, Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing, etc., wear down around that age because they're asked to do basically everything. Eventually, it takes it's toll.

He hasn't had a legit All-Star, but he's had a consistently bloated payroll and teams (not this current one, though) filled with guys a cut below All-Star caliber. I have no sympathy for Nowitzki, who handed away a championship.

I didn't turn the thread. I was merely responding to another fan who thinks Nowitzki's better than he is because he scores a lot. Funny how guys like Bosh, Stoudemire, Ellis, Martin, etc., take all this criticism (deserved, mind you) for being one dimensional, but Nowitzki is praised for it.

[jestersmash]

Dirk is a career 47% shooter.

This is an irrelevant and useless statistic.

You need to look at TS% because it takes into account FT% and the fact that shooting 40% from the 3 point line is equivalent to shooting 50% from 2. He has a career TS% of 58% which is phenomenal.

And, his true shooting percentage in the last 5 years is above his career average.

More importantly, with regards to my post, I was talking about how he's shooting right now thus far. He's well over 50. Career FG% is irrelevant for that sake alone.

[Ghazi]

lol TD 21

shut the up bro

[endrity]

Like I said, it's partially a credit to him, but it's also a reality. People want to know why he's still pretty much the same player he's ever been; that's why.

Guys like O'Neal, Duncan, Garnett, Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing, etc., wear down around that age because they're asked to do basically everything. Eventually, it takes it's toll.

He hasn't had a legit All-Star, but he's had a consistently bloated payroll and teams (not this current one, though) filled with guys a cut below All-Star caliber. I have no sympathy for Nowitzki, who handed away a championship.

I didn't turn the thread. I was merely responding to another fan who thinks Nowitzki's better than he is because he scores a lot. Funny how guys like Bosh, Stoudemire, Ellis, Martin, etc., take all this criticism (deserved, mind you) for being one dimensional, but Nowitzki is praised for it.

Neither of the guys you mentioned has scored as efficiently as Dirk has, for as long as Dirk has, in the high profile games that Dirk has, while becoming the closer that Dirk has. A guy that is about to become a 10 times all star, quite honestly, shouldn't even get mentioned with those guys, with Stoudemire the only mild exception.

It's seems to me like some fans think of Dirk as some sort of Memo Okur, big man, nice jumper, who has nothing else to fall back on. I understand if a casual fan makes that remark, but a Spurs fan shouldn't. Dirk gets most of his points today from the low post, 12-15 ft close to the basket, very much like a traditional forward. He also draws considerable defensive attention there, and is able to quickly attack the basket and get to the ft line because of it. And while it doesn't get mentioned often, I think Dirk has become an excellent passer, excellent. His reads out of double teams are perfect. And while his rebounding has dropped a bit during the reg season, that is mostly because Dallas has had great rebounders at all the other positions. He still hits the boards hard in the playoffs though, so to me it's a non issue.

He had a good roster in 05-07, but at the end of the day, Dirk needed to do most of the scoring and he did.

The fact that Dallas has the third highest payroll in the league today is a joke. That is purely something that the organization should be held accountable to, nothing more. The Knicks had one of the highest payrolls for most of the decade, but I am sure no one will claim that it translated into one of the most talented rosters in the league. Dirk has his part of the blame for 06 and 07, some exaggerate it, some forget it. But in no way should he hold responsibility for the front office's shortcomings for all these year.

[hitmanyr2k]

Like I said, it's partially a credit to him, but it's also a reality. People want to know why he's still pretty much the same player he's ever been; that's why.

Guys like O'Neal, Duncan, Garnett, Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing, etc., wear down around that age because they're asked to do basically everything. Eventually, it takes it's toll.

He hasn't had a legit All-Star, but he's had a consistently bloated payroll and teams (not this current one, though) filled with guys a cut below All-Star caliber. I have no sympathy for Nowitzki, who handed away a championship.

I didn't turn the thread. I was merely responding to another fan who thinks Nowitzki's better than he is because he scores a lot. Funny how guys like Bosh, Stoudemire, Ellis, Martin, etc., take all this criticism (deserved, mind you) for being one dimensional, but Nowitzki is praised for it.

True. Shooters have longevity because that's pretty much all they do. They don't do any dirty work whatsoever. People used to marvel at Reggie Miller's longevity in the league and it used to make me laugh because all that MF did was shoot the damn ball. Didn't play defense or anything else that would wear a player down over the course of a career. Same goes for Ray Allen. He'll be able to stay around for at least another 3 seasons because all he does is shoot.

[sefant77]

Dirk is amazing.

I just want to know when he is going to decline? He is a durable er as well. Just a great player.

This durable er will probably end up in the Career Leaders in points Top10 with over 26000 points. Probably he will also crack the 10000 rebounds (since TD21 thinks he cant rebound).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ts_career.html

[NRHector]

Of course he is. He hasn't played a man's game his entire career, so as a result, he doesn't have the wear and tear of guys who do.

It doesn't take much to stand in the pinch post and shoot over guys 3-4 inches taller a lot of the time. That's why he can play big minutes (that and the fact that the Mavs need him to). Aside from carrying the offense, they really don't ask for anything else out of him. I know that sounds like a lot, but he's not like a guy like Wade or Ginobili, who often work hard to get their points. He get's a lot of his points relatively easily, which is a credit to him and to the league's coaches, who often put players significantly smaller on him.

Rebounding, shot blocking, banging in the post on both ends, consistently deep playoff runs, this is the type of stuff that wears players out over time...and the type of stuff Nowitzki knows nothing about.

you forgot to mention the free throws that the refs give him

[bongraider]

dirk is plain offensive

[dirk4mvp]

of course of all people DAF would try to come in this thread and end up looking like a dumbass.

crofl lkrfan. at least someone finally laughed at your _irk joke brah.