Bonner gets too many minutes for the Spurs to be successful

[jjktkk]

That's a very important point that gets glossed over.

Specialist are fine, every championship team needs 'em. But look at those specialist you mentioned and the position they play, though Miller and Gordon are only one-dimensional when thinking offense/defense and not what they're capable of doing offensively. But I digress.

Horry, 'Sheed, maybe you want to throw a guy like Perkins in there, Laimbeer maybe, a few others, those are the type of bigs that have success stretching the floor from the front court of championship-caliber teams. They're players that are legitimately "bigs" and can man the paint and get the dirty work done for a team. Whether you've got someone who can shoot the 3 or not, the big man responsibilities still exist and someone's got to get the job done if your 4/5 can't.

It'd be one thing if the Spurs had some kind of Kirilenko-type at the three that defended and rebounded the ball like a big man (protecting the rim and whatnot), but they don't. Not even close.

Bonner's simply a role player that's too talented to be a fifth big and not talented enough to be anything more for a team with championship aspirations.

I believe that's the problem and dilemma Pop has trouble reconciling with and the reason Bonner's probably going to have to get dealt if this team wants to win it all -- I don't think Pop can keep himself from going to that Bonner well if he's there at his disposal.

Valid points. The main problem IMO, is that Pop doesn't have a legitimate 4 that can play 30 or more minutes a game and put up solid numbers(20/10). As well as defend his position. If he did, I truly believe we would never see Bonner getting more than 15-20 a game. May be Splitter can eventually be that guy.

[jjktkk]

No, but all of those players bring more to the table than Bonner. I'd take Kover and Miller any day of the week and twice on Sunday over Bonner. Bonner will never ever be a reliable player in the clutch. The biggest scare about even extending Bonner for the veteran's minimum is Pop's love affair with one dimensional players and over using them. Bonner shouldn't be getting many more minutes than Gary Neal. When Matt's in the game it feels like small ball due to his poor rebounding.

Valid points. But until Pop finds a reliable starting PF, I don't see anything changing. A PF that can average close to 20/10, play 30 minutes, and defend his position. Until he does, I'm afraid Pop will overuse Bonner.

[TJastal]

Valid points. The main problem IMO, is that Pop doesn't have a legitimate 4 that can play 30 or more minutes a game and put up solid numbers(20/10). As well as defend his position. If he did, I truly believe we would never see Bonner getting more than 15-20 a game. May be Splitter can eventually be that guy.

LOL you're such a delusional tool. 20/10 are all star numbers you twit.

[jjktkk]

LOL you're such a delusional tool. 20/10 are all star numbers you twit.

Yea averaging 20 points is asking too much. My bad. But the Spurs do need to find a starting caliber PF. Until they do, we will probably see too much of Bonner.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Yea averaging 20 points is asking too much. My bad. But the Spurs do need to find a starting caliber PF. Until they do, we will probably see too much of Bonner.

We have a great starting frontline with any combination of Duncan/McDyess/Splitter.

Bonner and Blair should be fighting for garbage minutes and used for situational matchups aka very rarely.

I want to see Bonner do well, but even for the Raptors, him getting the minutes he's been getting is too much.

[ElNono]

Duncan has trouble guarding Dirk, Gasol, and Garnett. Should Pop trade him?

Define trouble? Duncan has guarded Gasol and Garnett incredibly well in his heyday. He is obviously declining now, but he can still bang and board.
Dirk is a different breed, because unlike the other two, he has more of a perimeter game, which obviously a big has more problems guarding.
You're really comparing Duncan, one of the premier defenders in the NBA with Bonner just to try to make a point?

You think Ray Allen, Rip Hamilton, Vince Carter, are gonna shake in their boots, when being defended by Mike, Miller, Kyle Kover, etc...?

No, they're not. But if they get around them, they still need to get past Noah, Bosh/Haslem, etc. instead of having an automatic layup. And if they miss, there are actual bigs to rebound the ball inside. Again, you're comparing apples to oranges when it comes perimeter vs interior.

[ALVAREZ6]

I've never seen Gordon as a lock down defender going back to his college days at UCONN, nor with Chicago and Detroit. Great scorer, but nothing special on the defensive end.

Exactly, he's good at scoring....in many different ways. He's a quick, athletic guard with a dangerous mid-range game and 3-ball. Shooting great this year with 27.7 minutes per game, 14 points, 51.4% FG and 46% 3PT.


Bonner just brings you 3s..sometimes...

[ElNono]

Bonner doesn't play over 30 minutes a game. I don't see why his replacement should either. And Bonner doesn't give you 20 ppg either, so I don't see why his replacement should do that. Between Blair and Dice I can see where they can give you 10 boards combined. You need 9 ppg to replace Bonner's offensive contribution this season.

[Blackjack]

Valid points. The main problem IMO, is that Pop doesn't have a legitimate 4 that can play 30 or more minutes a game and put up solid numbers(20/10). As well as defend his position. If he did, I truly believe we would never see Bonner getting more than 15-20 a game. May be Splitter can eventually be that guy.

I don't even think Pop believes that. I mean, Blair's a 4 in Pop's eyes and he's a believer in he and Duncan as a tandem because of Blair's passing.

And really, it's not about whether the player's a 4 or 5 in a technical sense, it's simply about defensive capability. And if Duncan could defend the 4 as well as he did just a few years ago, before we started to see the real decline in mobility, there's no reason Splitter can't do the same. He's got great feet and can certainly do a better job than Bonner -- and 'Dyess has never been anything but a power forward. He's manned the center out of necessity but he's always been a 4.

I think Pop and a lot of us conditioned ourselves to the thinking that Tim and the Spurs had to have the spacing of a shooting 4. But how soon we all forget that this team won 2 les before Horry arrived, and that Horry wasn't some designated sniper or Steve Kerr at the 4. Spacing can come from anywhere and any position. Rebounding and defense? Not so much -- that's why shooting 4s are seen as unique and are coveted by a fair amount of teams and coaches.

Sometimes you've just got to get back to basics and not overthink it.

[ElNono]

Cue the 'but he spaces the floor'...

[jjktkk]

I don't even think Pop believes that. I mean, Blair's a 4 in Pop's eyes and he's a believer in he and Duncan as a tandem because of Blair's passing.

And really, it's not about whether the player's a 4 or 5 in a technical sense, it's simply about defensive capability. And if Duncan could defend the 4 as well as he did just a few years ago, before we started to see the real decline in mobility, there's no reason Splitter can't do the same. He's got great feet and can certainly do a better job than Bonner -- and 'Dyess has never been anything but a power forward. He's manned the center out of necessity but he's always been a 4.

I think Pop and a lot of us conditioned ourselves to the thinking that Tim and the Spurs had to have the spacing of a shooting 4. But how soon we all forget that this team won 2 les before Horry arrived, and that Horry wasn't some designated sniper or Steve Kerr at the 4. Spacing can come from anywhere and any position. Rebounding and defense? Not so much -- that's why shooting 4s are seen as unique and are coveted by a fair amount of teams and coaches.

Sometimes you've just got to get back to basics and not overthink it.

Hopefully Splitter can help the Spurs get back to basics.

[TJastal]

Exactly, he's good at scoring....in many different ways. He's a quick, athletic guard with a dangerous mid-range game and 3-ball. Shooting great this year with 27.7 minutes per game, 14 points, 51.4% FG and 46% 3PT.


Bonner just brings you 3s..sometimes...

So far, Bonner is 3-24 inside the arc. But at least he hasn't made a turnover yet!!

[Blackjack]

Hopefully Splitter can help the Spurs get back to basics.

Here's hoping.

[objective]

I think Pop and a lot of us conditioned ourselves to the thinking that Tim and the Spurs had to have the spacing of a shooting 4. But how soon we all forget that this team won 2 les before Horry arrived, and that Horry wasn't some designated sniper or Steve Kerr at the 4. Spacing can come from anywhere and any position. Rebounding and defense? Not so much -- that's why shooting 4s are seen as unique and are coveted by a fair amount of teams and coaches.

Sometimes you've just got to get back to basics and not overthink it.

Some of us never fell prey to the conditioning (07-06-07):

Spurs did just fine in 03 with Robinson, Rose, and Willis next to Duncan.

Besides, just because Bonner can hit threes doesn't make him like Horry at all.

There is no equality between the Duncan/Horry combo and Duncan/Bonner combo.

And more on the floor spreading 4 from 2007:

just because Bonner can shoot 3s, doesn't make him a legit Horry replacement. Bonner will never get 5 blocks in a finals game. Bonner will never grab 9 rebounds in the first half of a finals game. Bonner will never be dependable to force multiple turnovers on inbounds passes with his crafty plays.

The only thing Bonner does even close to Horry is shoot from long range, and he's never done that in the clutch, ever.

Now I'm not bashing Bonner with this. He is who he is.

I'm not blaming him for a loss to a very good team like the Mavs. Spurs weren't going to go 81-1, Ginobili's nose got bloodied up again apparently, and other players also played poorly like Parker and Jefferson. Neal had turnovers, McDyess looked like he was limping around in the second half, Duncan wasn't all-star Duncan, and so forth.

Just recognizing that Bonner is who he is. The only thing that's changed at all from my posts from July of 2007 is that since then Bonner has massively failed in the playoffs. But everything else was already known: Horry didn't just spread the floor, Horry played awesome defense when he was on. He got incredible steals. He had blocks. He got under player's skin with his dirtyness. He could pass. He could score other than just threes. And so on, the intangibles and things that weren't in box scores like Plus/Minus excuse stats.

Bonner has never and will never be able to do any of that. And that's not even considering clutch threes. And I mean playoff clutch threes, not November games against lottery teams.

In the regular season, he can hit threes.

In the playoffs, if he's getting minutes ahead of Splitter or McDyess or even Blair, that's a bad idea unless there's a match-up just screaming for it. He just can't do enough in the other areas of the game to justify him getting time. I just don't see it.

[SenorSpur]

So far, Bonner is 3-24 inside the arc. But at least he hasn't made a turnover yet!!

Whenever Bonner attempts to shoot off the dribble or with his left hand, consider it a turnover.

[ploto]

Hopefully Splitter can help the Spurs get back to basics.

I hope so, but there is a whole line of big men about whom fans thought the same. I was never quite sure why people thought it would be any different for Splitter. That is why so many did not want Bonner on the team. Pop can't resist.

[Mugen]

if scoring the go ahead 3 against the T-Wolves in a early regular season game isnt clutch, then i dont know what is.

[TJastal]

if scoring the go ahead 3 against the T-Wolves in a early regular season game isnt clutch, then i dont know what is.

Great for Bonner. He can shoot clutch 3's against .250 teams like the timberwolves. His huevos must be huge!

[Agloco]

if scoring the go ahead 3 against the T-Wolves in a early regular season game isnt clutch, then i dont know what is.

Great for Bonner. He can shoot clutch 3's against .250 teams like the timberwolves. His huevos must be huge!

Somebody missed the boat......

[Blackjack]

As it pertains to Bonner, objective, we've always been on the same page.

I would have preferred a healthy 'Sheed to someone like Gortat for the short-term and as a fit on the team, but that's because he happened to be one of the best interior defenders in the league.

And you're dead-on about Horry. The guy hit clutch shots and was capable of spreading the court because of the respect borne from that, but the guy wasn't ever really a "shooter." He was so much more -- his IQ was off the charts and he could affect the game on a mul ude of levels.

Bonner's playing the Steve Kerr role at the 4, only he's being depended upon more, he's incapable of fulfilling the role of a championship-caliber big man, and his biggest strength (shooting), has found it's self either disappearing when the chips are down or being taken away -- and his effectiveness being negated by the opponent running him off the line.

I will cop to one thing, though, I honestly believed Pop would find his way back to his core defensive principles once he had the type of talent he does now on the frontline. I wasn't all that upset with the Bonner deal because I figured it was to lock up a rotation big for next year and beyond when 'Dyess is gone and I convinced myself Bonner wouldn't maintain the role he'd assumed in recent years.

There's still time for Pop to reward my faith in him. ... But it ain't looking good.

[SA210]

So far, Bonner is 3-24 inside the arc. But at least he hasn't made a turnover yet!!

That's about 21 turnovers

[TJastal]

Somebody missed the boat......

You mean the blue? I see that now, and thx for pointing it out. Tends to happen when you've been posting for 13.5 hours straight.

[jjktkk]

That's about 21 turnovers

You got to love Tjastal's effort. Hes the Matt Bonner of Spurstalk, but without the jumshot.

[TJastal]

That's about 21 turnovers

Your going to hold him to the gold-star standard? I'll cut him a little slack, and say out of those 21 running hooks/flips/set shots/whateverthe youwannacallits he didn't make, about 10 were good shots within the offense, and the other 10 were basically forced turnovers.

[TJastal]

You got to love Tjastal's effort. Hes the Matt Bonner of Spurstalk, but without the jumshot.

Fear me.