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  1. #101
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Abuse here is sometimes something I wish I could pay to stop!
    You give out enough for free already. What room do you have to ?

  2. #102
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    Not only does it contribute to an increasingly su ious public (good when su ion leads to a demand for accountability, bad when su ion leads to jaded cynicism or complete disengagement), but likely scares the government toward increased caution, rather than increased openness.
    I can see this concern. I would hope that it leads to better security measures, rather than less sharing total. I don't think that government was on the path to much more transparency before this incident, if it makes you feel any better.

  3. #103
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Sadly, I think it is becoming one.
    The line between liberty and license can be hard to distinguish in a essentially licentious culture.

  4. #104
    The Sean Marks Dance Duff McCartney's Avatar
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    I have always valued public service. It was one of the motivations that led me to enlist in the Army.

    The staff at State all seemed to share that value, unsurprisingly.

    While I am sure you, like most cynics, scoff at this rather idealistic value, it exists nonetheless.

    It has less to do with what I think of myself, and more to do with what I think of America.
    I'm actually planning on going into State Department myself too. After I teach for a few then get my M.A. in International Relations. But I hear from my cousin the State Department is like the mob..or a gang, you have to be related to someone to get in. Very tough.

  5. #105
    The Sean Marks Dance Duff McCartney's Avatar
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    Would you agree or disagree that we have a large number of liberals who despise us for our prosperity? That they think the rich nations steal from the poor, rather than it being the fault of the poor nations, and their executive structure?
    I don't think any liberal despises us for our prosperity. I'm a devout liberal, and I don't despise the United States for its prosperity. But I criticize it for its short comings in everything it does. And in the citizens of a nation that can't see beyond what is sent to them in a text message.

    I wouldn't consider myself an idealist really, because it seems the only way to get through to people is to target their power or their pocket.

    That said, I feel that the United States can be so much better. I can't bring together the ideals that we all supposedly stand for, and then watch as our government and our citizens don't live up to them. For instance, in places like Sudan where there's alot of bad things going on, really bad things, worse than Iraq, there's not a single soldier in the country. Why? Or Burma where there are terrible military juntas ruling the nation and sucking the wealth out.

    Whatever the reasons for going into Iraq, if you buy into the one that Saddam was an evil man then we should rid the entire world of evil leaders. Because he's not the only one.

  6. #106
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Whatever the reasons for going into Iraq, if you buy into the one that Saddam was an evil man then we should rid the entire world of evil leaders. Because he's not the only one.
    But, he was the only one that spent the previous 12 years defying United Nations' demands and resolutions...not to mention attempting to assassinate a sitting President of the United States.

    As for the rest of your post...The United States of America is the worst nation on the face of the planet...except for all the others.

  7. #107
    Homer 2centsworth's Avatar
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    I can't stop reading the leaks. No doubt some of the info will cost the lives of innocent people.

    One doc I read specifically outlined top routes for iinnocent hostages to escape from Iran.

    I'm sure most current and future escapees haven't got the memo their secret is no more.

  8. #108
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    innocent hostages?

  9. #109
    Homer 2centsworth's Avatar
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    innocent hostages?
    Don't act like you have an opinion. Go copy and paste something

  10. #110
    All Hail the Legatron The Reckoning's Avatar
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    looks like the wikileaks founder is pantsing more than obama.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...g-tempest.html

    Earlier this month a court in Stockholm granted an international arrest warrant after the Swedish director of prosecutions, Marianne Ny, said Mr Assange was “suspected of rape, sexual molestation and unlawful coercion”.

    The Swedish media later reported that a request for his arrest had been sent around the world.

    Mr Assange denies the allegations and has dismissed them as part of a “smear campaign” against him. His lawyer has said the women involved had consensual sex with Mr Assange.

    However, sources close to Mr Assange admitted yesterday that he had been deliberately kept out of the limelight because of fears that the rape allegations would become a diversion from the story of the leaks.

  11. #111
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Don't act like you have an opinion. Go copy and paste something
    I've stated opinions about this.

  12. #112
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Are you asking me for one, 2cents?

  13. #113
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    @2centsworth:

    You furnished no link to topical material and no opinion of your own, except for your low estimation of mine, and that people will surely die.

  14. #114
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    It would seem the treason ship has already sailed, but if you wanted my opinion on whether Manning's actions were treasonable, in a bare factual sense I think they probably were.

    I can understand why people want to see him killed. But that ain't gonna happen.

  15. #115
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Not at the hands of the justice system, anyway.

  16. #116
    The Sean Marks Dance Duff McCartney's Avatar
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    But, he was the only one that spent the previous 12 years defying United Nations' demands and resolutions...not to mention attempting to assassinate a sitting President of the United States.

    As for the rest of your post...The United States of America is the worst nation on the face of the planet...except for all the others.
    Yeah right, there's been leaders that have been defying demands and resolutions for alot longer than 12 years. And we've done nothing to them. all the leaders in Israel defy UN demands and resolutions with respect to the Palestinians. But that doesn't mean jack to some people.

  17. #117
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    looks like the wikileaks founder is pantsing more than obama.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...g-tempest.html
    IIRC, that lawsuit was near immediately detracted.

  18. #118
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    @LnGrrrR: What lawsuit? You mean Sweden's warrant for Assange on assualt charges?

    I think they were recently instated, after having been offered and withdrawn once previously. The Telegraph link nowhere indicates the Swedish prosecution has reached a conclusion and in fact seems to indicate the contrary:
    If he attends a press conference or publicises his whereabouts he could be arrested and face deportation to Sweden, where he is wanted for questioning over claims that he assaulted two women last summer.
    Last edited by Winehole23; 11-30-2010 at 03:17 PM.

  19. #119
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    I believe Assange is appealing the warrant.

  20. #120
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    What's the venue for that?

  21. #121
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    What's the venue for that?
    Sweden's supreme court, apparently.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11880965

  22. #122
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Mr. Assange is wanted for questioning. No charges have been filed yet.

  23. #123
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    @LnGrrrR: What lawsuit? You mean Sweden's warrant for Assange on assualt charges?

    I think they were recently instated, after having been offered and withdrawn once previously. The Telegraph link nowhere indicates the Swedish prosecution has reached a conclusion and in fact seems to indicate the contrary:
    Ah, I didn't hear about the re-instated bit, if that's true. I assumed the Telegraph link was to the original.

    From wikipedia:

    On 20 August 2010, an investigation was opened against Assange in Sweden in connection with an allegation that he had raped a woman in Enköping on the weekend of 14 August after a seminar, and two days later had sexually harassed a second woman he had been staying with in Stockholm.[81][82] Within 24 hours of the investigation opening, prosecutors withdrew the warrant to arrest him saying the accusations against him lacked substance. The chief prosecutor Eva Finné said "I don't think there is reason to suspect that he has committed rape". He was still being investigated for harassment,[83] which covers reckless conduct or inappropriate physical contact, a charge not serious enough to trigger an arrest warrant.
    I see later down that the investigation was reopened; didn't know that. (And yes, I meant warrant, not lawsuit; thanks for the correction.)

    Anywys, my overall (obviously poorly made) point was that he was not found guillty already, as the Reckoning's post seemed (to me) to imply.

  24. #124
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    I think we have a large number of liberals, however, who are frustrated and/or angered by specific, measurable, verifiable policies and practices through which our nation has increased its wealth at the expense, directly, of poorer nations and poorer citizens within our own nation.
    I would say most of this occurs because the government keeps chipping away at the free market.

    It used to cost nothing but start-up costs to start a business. Any person of little means could succeed with the right approach and idea. That's impossible today. It takes too much money to follow state, federal, county and city regulations. Then the costs of permits, etc. That's just one aspect.

    Think about regulations. How many of them really benefit the public? I see them as normally keeping the rich in power, and hurting the small business.

    Anyone have a complete summary of what it takes to start a business these days? This would be enlightening to those who never thought about it before.

  25. #125
    Linger Ficking Good! CuckingFunt's Avatar
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    I would say most of this occurs because the government keeps chipping away at the free market.

    It used to cost nothing but start-up costs to start a business. Any person of little means could succeed with the right approach and idea. That's impossible today. It takes too much money to follow state, federal, county and city regulations. Then the costs of permits, etc. That's just one aspect.

    Think about regulations. How many of them really benefit the public? I see them as normally keeping the rich in power, and hurting the small business.

    Anyone have a complete summary of what it takes to start a business these days? This would be enlightening to those who never thought about it before.
    I don't know how this is at all related to my post. Another unfortunate tangent, I'm assuming?

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