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  1. #26
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    Unregulated financial sector really showed the world how great "free markets" are.

    Iceland bankrupt, Ireland bankrupt, USA bankrupt, whoever's-next-bankrupt, what's not to love?
    usa is bankkrupt because the people get elected are rich spoiled brats who have tons of money to buy them into office
    they love to spend money
    they do not know how to budget
    they spend more money then they make
    they give millons away to other countries even though it cost the usa trillions to give them millions

    has nothing to do with the financial sector

    quite blaming other sectors
    blame the goverment for being bankrupt

    yes I know you want the gov to be bigger but they can not do any thing right why make them bigger

  2. #27
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    what about those currently out of work? They don't pay taxes. Are they out of luck? What about the people who don't pay taxes yet send their kids to public schools? Should we penailze the kids because their parents don't pay taxes?
    you know what
    back when this country was founded older kids worked and worked the farm they could not afford to send their older kids to school

    guess what
    that kepted those kids out of trouble and they learned more then alot of kids learn in school now

  3. #28
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    file for Bankruptcy
    then make a law congress can not spend more money then what comes in

  4. #29
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    file for Bankruptcy
    then make a law congress can not spend more money then what comes in
    The US should "file for bankruptcy?"


    I... have no words...


  5. #30
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    The next Crush-Magic-Negro's-Little-Balls-Yet-Again moment for the Repugs will be the battle over the debt ceiling, in the Repugs' nihilistic gut or shut govt campaign.

    If the Repugs force a govt default on debt interest and bonds, it's gonna be fun.

  6. #31
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    This is a slippery slope and I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, per se, but how do you define "benefiting everyone?" It is really easy to justify just about everything this way, or to disqualify everything this way. On one hand, one could say that free school lunches benefit everyone because malnutrition makes it very difficult to learn, an educated society benefits the nation at large through greater ability to be productive than an uneducated society. Therefore, free school lunch benefits everyone.

    On the other hand Joe Hippie doesn't believe that cars are good for the environment and therefore walks everywhere he goes. He doesn't use the roads, they are not benefiting everyone and therefore should be defunded.

    Yes these are extreme examples (especially the latter), but you know the country we live in today. Extreme examples are par for the course with regards to political discourse.

    I am seriously not trying to be a d-bag and undercut you, just wanted to know if you have any idea how to define what you are suggesting.
    No i didn't take this as you being a . i was thinking the same thing while I was typing it. Generally anything benefiting everybody, not personally but as a whole. For instance I am not saying not funding libraries and museums. The paying for lunch though is a stretch for me. I don't think it is the government's role in making sure kids eat. Parents should be held responsible for this kind of thing. I do see the reasoning behind children who are fed probably make better grades which make more educated citizens which make lower probability of criminals and/or create higher income which makes higher taxes brought in.

  7. #32
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    agreed but that never actually happened. I assume the wars were also funded primarily by tax money but i hardly see any benefit the wars give. GWB launched the war against Saddam in a sole attempt of destroying all WMD in Iraq but they found none of it. Saddam was a tyrant but no way a terrorist, though he appeared somewhat pro-terror. There are still numerous tyrannies in the world but it's obviously beyond Uncle Sam's power to emancipate all of them.

  8. #33
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    No i didn't take this as you being a . i was thinking the same thing while I was typing it. Generally anything benefiting everybody, not personally but as a whole. For instance I am not saying not funding libraries and museums. The paying for lunch though is a stretch for me. I don't think it is the government's role in making sure kids eat. Parents should be held responsible for this kind of thing. I do see the reasoning behind children who are fed probably make better grades which make more educated citizens which make lower probability of criminals and/or create higher income which makes higher taxes brought in.
    Parents should be held responsible, but many parents are far from being such.

    Either we deal with that reality, or face the consequences of not doing so, which you point out.

    I have seen, first-hand, the consequences of malnutrition on children in my own community. Setting aside the ethical/moral dimensions of that, the economic loss of what those children, someday to be adults, might have achieved but for consistant meals when they were young, erk.

    Setting aside the economic dimensions, I think we have a moral duty to do so.

  9. #34
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    Parents should be held responsible, but many parents are far from being such.

    Either we deal with that reality, or face the consequences of not doing so, which you point out.

    I have seen, first-hand, the consequences of malnutrition on children in my own community. Setting aside the ethical/moral dimensions of that, the economic loss of what those children, someday to be adults, might have achieved but for consistant meals when they were young, erk.

    Setting aside the economic dimensions, I think we have a moral dhttp://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/flag.gifuty to do so.
    Face the consequence that we are requiring our government, non living and breathing, to raise them right now. Yeah parents should be held responsible. A moral duty for what? To make sure these kids are always fed or fed for school? If they can't come up with something for the kid to eat for lunch? Come on. I doubt you have been in a welfare line. I can assure you these people are smart and will take the "assistance" because they can. However if it is taken away then they will provide for their children.

  10. #35
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    if [assistance] is taken away then they will provide for their children.
    Link?

    That is a pretty definite assertion. If it reflects reality, then you should be able to provide an economic study to back it up.

  11. #36
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    Link?

    That is a pretty definite assertion. If it reflects reality, then you should be able to provide an economic study to back it up.

    As soon as I can see an economic study to back up the benefits of welfare.

  12. #37
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    you say we are morally responsible to these kids because their parents aren't. Then you say you have to see an economic study for another POV?

  13. #38
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    "you say we are morally responsible to these kids because their parents aren't"

    The "Christian" supremacists and the Repugs say the US govt is morally and legally responsible for protecting human embryos, but they seem to be less concerned with those embryos' "equal" chances after birth for healthy nutrition, esp if those chances are paid for by govt funds.

    Just this week some Repug , probably wealthy, at Repug conference was fomenting for shutting down federally financed school meals, saying the parents are guilty of child abuse if they can't rustle up a bowl of cereal and a banana for brekky.
    Last edited by boutons_deux; 12-09-2010 at 01:25 PM.

  14. #39
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    As soon as I can see an economic study to back up the benefits of welfare.
    A challenge? I accept.

    I could start by noting that countries with better social safety nets have better social mobility. In the US, if your parents are poor, you will be much more likely to remain that way, than in big bad socialist countries.

    (hitz da google)

    I'll be back.

  15. #40
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    As soon as I can see an economic study to back up the benefits of welfare.
    I would note however, you made the assertion. It is your burden of proof to prove your statement, not mine to prove the opposite.

    If you cannot, or will not, then one can only logically reject it.

    It has been a while since I have read up on the topic, and the new studies done since welfare reform should prove interesting reading.

  16. #41
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    Face the consequence that we are requiring our government, non living and breathing, to raise them right now. Yeah parents should be held responsible. A moral duty for what? To make sure these kids are always fed or fed for school? If they can't come up with something for the kid to eat for lunch? Come on. I doubt you have been in a welfare line. I can assure you these people are smart and will take the "assistance" because they can. However if it is taken away then they will provide for their children.
    you have no idea what you're talking about which is par for the course..

  17. #42
    All Hail the Legatron The Reckoning's Avatar
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    sounds like they're getting alot done by hosting the UN summit in Cancun, of all places


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