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Neither player has changed much over the past few months. It's stupid to say that it was a toss up a few months ago, but now Amare's clearly better. He's been better all along, you just weren't smart enough to see it until it got exposed openly.
Since Aug, who has been banned? For what reasons?
Well the stats proved otherwise unless you can show some numbers to back that up.
To me, Amare is more dangerous because he has more of an offensive repertoire, Bosh reminds me of a very poor man's Dirk who mostly scores off jumpers. Amare commands double teams and attention, which is why there are 6 Knicks players averaging double figures. Amare also shoots the ball at a much higher fg%, 54% compared to 49%. Slightly better rebounder, better shot blocker this year, and the gap is only going to widen as Amare seems to be focused on these aspects of his game finally and getting better. Bosh, as the only talented big man on the Heat, still can't manage to grab more than 7 rebounds or a half a block a game. Neither is very effective without the ball in their hand, but at least Amare is better suited as a number one option and can be effective on the pick and roll as well as the iso. I've said it all along and it finally came true whenever Bosh moved to Miami, the dude was overrated and only puts up those nice numbers when he's getting all the touches. His game just doesn't seem to correlate with higher wins for his team. In every full season Amare played in which he was healthy, his win shares are MUCH higher than Bosh's.
Aside from microfracture surgery and the Shaq debacle, Amare has put up win share totals of 14.6, 14.6, 11.2, and 10.7 over the past several years. Compared to Bosh, who put up 10.1, 9.8, 9.7, 9.6, and 9.6 his best years.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...stoudam01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../boshch01.html
Sure, but how does that disprove my argument that no matter whom you liked, the gap was close?
Also, Bosh is the better rebounder for their career. 8.9 Amare, 9.3 for Bosh.
To me the only real drawbacks to having Amar'e instead of Bosh include his injury history and brain-dead IQ defensively (Bosh is better than Amar'e here although not by much). However's Amar'es portfolio's worth of serious injuries is enough to pass on him for the Heat especially when you also consider intangibles like Bosh's relations with the King and Flash.
Bosh hasn't been as impressive as Amar'e was whether its in the playoffs or reg season. Amar'e DESTROYED a prime Duncan time and time again and in the 2nd half of the last season Amar'e was playing like he was the best big in the league. He carried the Suns to a high seed in the compe ive West while teams like the Spurs, OKC, and Blazers were struggling just to get a low seed.
As players and impact goes, Amar'e > Bosh. However his injuries are enough to shy away from seriously investing in him especially for the deal the Knicks had to make unless you're the PHX Suns. Its a crying shame that the Suns didn't match on the Amar'e offer since I'm in the camp where a ballclub should keep its WCF core especially with Nash and Hill no longer being regular season superstars.
It proves that it really wasn't close, Amare's play was leading to more wins for his team which is the ultimate goal in basketball. It took a trained eye to see that Bosh was a product of the system prior to this year, and now it's being exposed. Just as people said Amare was a product of Nash, and DoK repeatedly said he wasn't, but low and behold Amare is beasting this year on the Knicks without him. Just admit you were wrong, no harm no foul.
Good start, win shares is a nice way to back up something you say. Now obviously there are multiple things and statistics to look at such as PER, per minute numbers, usage rates, teammates usage rates, pace and system.
Still, none of that proves that at the time of the argument, they were comparable players statistically.
This year, Amare has taken a step forward and I have admitted he is better than Bosh. So I really don't get the beef with me.
I never said Bosh>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Amare.
Not by much. Seems to have better fundamentals and stays in front of his man better but not by much. Smh @ Amar'e saying he never learned defense to the mediaBosh is better than Amare defensively, how?
You mean like Amare with Dantoni now and today? Calling Bosh a stat and not Amare and using the system/scenario argument is damn foolish here, damn foolish.
You watching Nene destroy him.Bosh is better than Amare defensively
Bosh isn't even close to the same player he was last year, he's clearly regressed as the 3rd option, it's going to take him a while to adjust(he's gotten better as the season has progressed though, to be fair)..
To say Bosh scores off just jump shots is silly..Bosh was top 5 in the NBA last year in points in the paint..that's probably the main regression in his game..
2009-2010
Bosh: 54% of his shot attempts were jump shots, 46% of his offense was in the paint..
Amare: 51% of his shot attempts were jump shots, 49% of his offense was in the paint..
A notable difference is that 61% of Amare's offense was assisted, while only 50% of Bosh's offense was assisted..
Bosh averaged more FTA per game than Stoudemire, despite posting a similar usage..so, again, he clearly wasn't just a jump shooter, not even close..he was one of the best players in the NBA at drawing free throws in the paint last year, which hasn't been the case this year, due to lack of aggressiveness and adjusting to a completely new role that he has never played..
Using Win Shares as an argument is weak..Bosh has more Win Shares this year than Stoudemire does, and he's had a better WS/48 than Stoudemire for the last few years..speaks volumes, since Stoudemire's teams have been better, and WS is heavily based on a team success..
Saying it wasn't a toss-up, when pretty much everybody that followed the NBA said it was, it just stupid..there's no argument that shows that it wasn't a toss-up..
I would take Amare too, because he's a proven playoff performer that plays more aggressively on a consistent basis..however, as #1 options, it was clearly a toss-up..
It only appeared that way. Now if Amare had made leaps and bounds this offseason and everyone was raving how much better he was and developed a Dirk-like jumper and he was obviously a much better player than before, then you might have an argument. But the point is, Amare's game was translating to more wins for his team (win shares) which is the ultimate goal in basketball to me. Nothing else should really matter.
Defensive win shares this year:
Amare: .9
Bosh: 1.7
NYK: 18th in defense
MIA: 1st
I agree, they are trying to take things in isolation and they are using arguments that don't make sense because they lack understanding of the players and the stats.
See the following post.
You still don't get it.
This is where advanced stats can lead to bull . Say a guy like Ray Allen moves really well without the ball, coming off screens and using picks, as well as backdoors to get his points. Hence he's going to have a lot of his offense assisted technically, even though it shouldn't be a knock on his game at all.
Bosh higher win share this year than Amare.
No you don't get it. You admit Amare is now the better player, although nothing much changed in either of their games. Amare was always better, you just weren't smart enough to see it before. Perceptions can be tricky.
The year is young?
I don't even like Bosh, as I've said many times..
To say he's the same player as previous years is false, though..
The main difference is that he went from a guy that shot around 50% of his shots as jump shots and 50% of his game inside the paint, to this year, where he's shooting 75% of his shots as jump shots and only 25% of his game inside the paint..
He's clearly adjusting to a role he has never played before..
My point isn't that Bosh would be as good as Amare in a difference situation..I think Amare is better, as I said before the season..my point is that it was clearly a toss-up before this season, as pretty much everybody said at the time..
It's not a knock on Amare. It is shows that Bosh had to do a lot of things himself with all the focus on him. He had to create.
He didn't have a guy like Nash helping out and drawing attention. Nash didn't make Amare, but he helped. Same with the system and pace.
You still don't get it. My argument was that I like Bosh but that the gap was close. Is that wrong? If not, STFU.
I fully agree that Amare is better at moving off the ball than Bosh..my point is that before this season, we only knew Bosh as a #1 option, so I was comparing the 2 as primary options for their teams, where they both had the ball a lot..
I'm not arguing for Bosh being as good as Stoudemire now..I'm arguing why I thought it was a toss-up in the past..
Proven false, Amare is doing just fine without him contrary to what you all THOUGHT would happen.
Amare got better, but Bosh obviously got worse (or at least his role has really been difficult to adjust to). That is the difference.
You still never addressed the defensive argument. Please do.
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